YpaWinz
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Posts posted by YpaWinz
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I'm not going anywhere because I don't feel that the nerf isn't going to break anything. It might force people to play differently, but operative will still be effective and still do just fine IMO.
EDIT: I should add that I've played operative since day 1 of early access, having never played one in beta.
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Correction on the first fact I quoted above: cannot break out of knockdowns. This is a focal point for the call to nerf. The operative was free to choose when to engage with stealth and had no fear of counterattack for the knockdown's full duration. I would have been fine if the knockdown was a stun so it could be breakable (+ appropriate resolve bar). Yes, this advantage could be mitigated by staying in groups, but WZ progress and smart play from operatives/scoundrels can/does create solo situations.
Not sure why you weren't able to break out of it, but I never had a problem breaking the knockdown w/ my escape ability if I was unfortunate enough to be opened upon by another operative. In addition to that, I've come across countless folks that I opened on that popped their escape as soon as I knocked them down.
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Typically DB is back up and I can hit that, ab, backstab, shiv, and lacerate, if I'm lucky it'll take them out.
And yes I die a lot, because all I see in WZs now are Troopers, Sages, and Guardians.
In Huttball it's Bounty Hunters with their grapple, Sorcs with bubble and lightning, and assassins with shields.
People really have no idea how vulnerable an operative is versus other classes do they?
I get lucky and maybe get in a lone straggler, a weak and wounded gazelle in the herd, but I sure as hell am not taking out the strongest one.
I won't deny that in a lot of situations we are at a disadvantage. Warzones are kind of tough to judge anyway since it's rarely a 1v1 situation, even if it starts out that way.
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You forgot a few things, I'll fix.
IF they trinket your first debilitate, flash bang, you now have 8 seconds to kill them, good luck.
If they trinket flash bang, pray your cloaking screen is up.
If they stun you, escape out, hope debilitate is up and they haven't run.
If they kite you, you die.
If they root you, hope you can escape, and pray CS is up.
If they snare you, pray escape is up, no cs, you die
...if you flashbang, I don't see how you "have 8 seconds to kill them" considering it breaks on damage.
The only thing I get from this is that you die a lot.
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I think what most people are missing here is that there's always an optimal damage rotation but any player worth his salt is going to adapt to the opponent he's facing. You have these tools at your disposal to use when the time is right. If they trinket your first debilitate, you have to adapt. If they trinket flashbang, you have to adapt. If they stun you, kite you, root you, snare you, etc... you have to adapt.
If, in your toolbox, you have a hammer, a screwdriver and a wrench, you're going to use the one that best suits the situation you're in. You're not just gonna hammer, screw, wrench, repeat.
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Theres to many people here talking that not even tried to play a smugler/operative !!!
Pretty much this.
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All your other attacks do kinetic/energy damage, and acid blades on top of superb damage gives all your attacks basically around 30% damage buff (more if criticals are considered). For 15 seconds. Spammable ability. Which basically means - forever.
Except the part where acid blade is only applied by Backstab and Hidden Strike. Both of which require us to be behind the target. Hidden strike requires stealth and backstab is on a 9 second cooldown. Neither of them are going to be "spammable" in any situation unless your target is AFK.
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Grab an orange marauder piece. Pull out all the mods, put in your own.
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It's really very basic. If you're a casual player who doesn't have the time to farm out tokens and get great gear, then when that player goes up against somebody who does, they'll always lose. There's no skill needed, it's all based on gear.
PvP is more about who has the stronger knowledge of classes and their abilities, and good situational awareness. If a player possesses both of these things, his gear isn't near as big a factor as you would make it seem.
EDIT: I'm obviously not talking about the skilled guy being in pre-50 greens up against someone in 5 pieces of battlemaster gear, but even then, if the battlemaster guy is a terrible player who got lucky w/ bag draws, the guy in greens is probably still going to win.
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Threads like this are what make PvP unenjoyable for me.
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The potential is there, but the risk is far too great. Wasting a cloaking screen for a debilitate would be foolish.
Yeah. On paper it's the way to go, and maybe in 1v1 world pvp encounter but in WZ's it really isn't worth the risk.
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You can't get stunned for 8 seconds. Hidden strike is a full resolve bar.
To be fair, you can get stunned for around 7 if the operative opens with debilitate (4 seconds, 800 resolve) first, but that comes at the cost of their best defensive cooldown in that they would have to cloaking screen -> hidden strike at the end of that 4 seconds to add on the 3 second knockdown. Assuming you don't use your CC breaker, this would allow a great deal of unanswered damage and would probably be the best 1v1 rotation.
That said, in the last month or so pvp (once a lot of folks had reached higher lvls) I have not noticed a single operative open on me with anything other than hidden strike. Presumably because in warzones, a true 1v1 is hard to come by and blowing cloaking screen like that would basically mean you're vulnerable until you can exit combat. Either that or they just didn't realize the potential.
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the knockdown from HS is not a knock back and does not trigger an additional 400 resolve, u are able to be stunned after HS.
From my previous reply:
If I open with Hidden Strike, you will have a full resolve bar. There's no way around it.For the next 10 seconds or so (duration of the stun/resolve drain) you will be immune to stuns by me or anyone else. Which means if I hit you with debilitate, you'll take about 300-400 damage but the stun will fizzle and I will have wasted a 30 second cooldown.
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Wrong:
http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/understanding-swtors-resolve-mechanic/
"""
Stuns give 200 Resolve per second of the stun.
Mez (breaks on damage) gives 100 Resolve per second.
Knockbacks generate 400 Resolve (didn’t have a way to test pulls).
When you reach or exceed the Resolve threshold of 1000, 50% additional Resolve is generated for the CC ability. So a 4-second stun generates 800 Resolve and if it goes over 1000 you get an extra 400. So two 4-second stuns used back to back will generate 2000 Resolve (800 + 1200)."""
4 sec stun will give you 800 resolve, 2nd 4 sec stun, will make you un'CCable *after* that stun ends (but you'll be dead by then)
While it's cool to see the numbers behind the mechanic, your correction is kind of pointless. If you read further down the page, you'll see this:
The same thing happens to your ‘Hidden Strike’, 400 for the knock-back/knockdown and 600 for the 3 second stun, which pushes them to the 1000 resolve and probably gives them a 300 resolve bonus (the stun portion) leaving them at 1300. To verify that you can hover your mouse of the resolve bar on the enemy portrait and it’ll tell you the resolve that they are at.
As a 50 operative, that this is 100% true. If I open with Hidden Strike, you will have a full resolve bar. There's no way around it.
For the next 10-11 seconds (duration of the , you will be immune to stuns by me or anyone else. Which means if I hit you with debilitate, you'll take about 300-400 damage but the stun will fizzle and I will have wasted a 30 second cooldown stun.
EDIT: More to the point, if an operative opens with hidden strike, there's no such thing as 2 back to back 4 second stuns.
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I think everyone is forgetting how broken the resolve bar is in this game.
It has worked fine for me since day 1 of early access. I think it's better to say that most folks don't understand the mechanic.
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Since we're talking about fair, I would like Ops/scoundrels to get an incapitate from stealth that doesn't fill a resolve bar, a ranged stun, knockback and force sprint just to name a few.
I kind of agree on the incap, but I don't think it's that big a thing. Operatives have the ability to self heal, which does a lot for survivability. Assassins kind of depend on that ranged stun, knockback and sprint just to stay alive.
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Scoundrels and Op's are fine atm,lets wait and see what the brackets show.
I've said this since the nerf calls started. Most every nerf thread on this board is unsupported by any kind of video/screenshot proof of anything. It's just someone spouting random numbers.
"He hit me for 5k 3 times in a row w/ backstab and then chain stunned me for 12 seconds."
Not only do almost none of the nerf criers have any idea how operative works (or resolve, or any other game mechanic), there's no way to validate whether a post was made by a lvl 10 or a lvl 50.
Once the 50 bracket hits, hopefully folks will realize that there's a lot less to worry about than the lvl 12's are making it seem. Of course we know that a 50 bracket won't stop people from being idiots, but wishful thinking and all that.
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At lvl 10 I could finish in top 4 constantly hit for 3k with expertise consumable this is not amazing on its own but for a level 10 its like wow. its like that at such a low lvl that amazed me can only imagine what it gets like with better gear and moves
Not sure if you realize this, but the expertise consumable gives a 15% increase. At lvl 10, you have 0 expertise. 15% of 0 is 0.
That said, if you did that well at level 10, everyone else in your WZ was AFK, asleep, and/or terrible.
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The differences in damage between the Operative lethality spec vs the Sniper lethality spec is like night & day. Literally.
The issue of having to get in melee range, hit Shiv just to be able to Cull (which is pathetic on the Operative anyway) is ridiculous.
Not to mention that our Cull is 10m, while the Sniper Cull is 30m. It makes things way more irritating and it also does way less damage.
What are your opinions of Lethality spec for Ops?
I've seen folks use something like this:
http://knotor.com/skills#AgASABdzkaKrusrS20lSanuJkpqisrnT2gAA
and keep kolto probes running to keep TA up for cull. It seems to work fairly well, though I don't have much experience with it myself. It looks like it could work as a support healer/off dmg spec. The DoT's/cull could help keep pressure on healers while the probes and heals could help your team out. It might get kind of weird trying to manage hots/dots/cull all at once, I dunno.
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operatives/scoundrels are fine when you play operative/scoundrel. otherwise not.
It's because people who play the class understand its weaknesses.
It's also because a great many nerf threads are started by people who get wrecked by a superior geared/leveled/skilled operative.
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Yeah, just find good operatives. And include them in your video. I bet win/lose ratio will be like 10/90... Sentinel perhaps has some chanses when attacks first (CC immunity and some CDs help), but if operative opens on him then sentinel loses 10-11k hp in first seconds and it's become hopless...
The same is true for any class.
Anyone who knows their class well and knows other class' weaknesses is going to be "overpowered."
Nerf good players imo.
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I don't see how this could of gotten over looked, there's no possible way this class is working as intented. That much dmg, ontop of that kinda survivial is just too much, you could make an entire team of Scoundrels/Operatives and just run premades and have a 100% chance to win, unless it was mirror match.
Or unless the team you were up against had any kind of collective brain.
Not sure why there needs to be yet another thread about this. Educate yourself about how the class works. Those who have don't have near as much trouble out of them as those who litter the forums with nerf threads. This doesn't just apply to operatives, it's true for any class.
Their burst damage is big against undergeared 50's or low levels. Against a 50 w/ similar gear, it's not that big - unless they're using a bunch of biochem stuff, which is a different issue altogether.
They have very little in terms of survival. If caught out of stealth they won't last long in a toe-to-toe battle. Their best defensive ability is on a 2 min cooldown. DoTs help sometimes if they're not smart enough to pop evasion first.
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No matter who you ask, the answer will vary. It's usually the class that has proven the most frustrating for them. I find that many of the "overpowered" posts are fueled by a misunderstanding of how the class works or a general lack of awareness in PvP.
Stunned with full resolve bar...this should not happen.
in PvP
Posted
Mine is the one where you made a bunch of stuff up.