So, again. Not focusing so much on potential removal of legacy gear, as much as focusing on how BioWare can use that system to make money. At least one person said the cost would be too high. And I guess there's not as much motivation with customizable gear appearance. However, there's still the potential for money here. Legacy Bank storage of credits. So characters can deposit/withdraw from one overall legacy pool (1000-4000 Cartel Coins?) Legacy Tokens to make regular equipment item into legacy item, including earpieces, implants, and relics. At the very least, I'd like to be able to get some of my favorite hilts/blasters converted to legacy. (let's say 400-1000 Cartel Coins per token, consumable) Or, if no token system, then allow for Cartel Market items to be stored in legacy bank once they've been unlocked to the collection. (this would at the very least encourage the use of Cartel Coins to unlock more sets into people's collections - not nearly as profitable as tokens)

As I said, this was a rumor that I heard. I think the player who mentioned the fact that Legacy Gear may go away might have seen something on a dev stream, or something else. I asked them for clarification on where they got this information, and it may have been a bit of a jump from comments that legacy gear wasn't being used as it was intended. I'll try to find where they got their information and post it. Regardless, if the rumor is unfounded, that is ALL the BETTER! And, it doesn't detract at all from my suggestions for integrating new Cartel Market functionality related to Legacy Gear which would not only improve things for players, but also get BioWare a good profit. The majority of the OP was meant to establish my reasons for why enhancements to Legacy Banks and Legacy Tokens would be sought after by their customers. I firmly believe that even if all that was done in response was to finally add Cartel Market unlocks for shared Legacy Bank credit storage, that players would spend money to make life easier. Although, I'd still really like to see tokens to change single pieces of gear into legacy bound items.

A: Sure, not everyone uses Legacy Gear. But I know many who do. B: You're missing the point. I'm not sticking around solely for Legacy Gear, but having such a useful and functional aspect of the game removed after allowing players to use it for years, and even encouraging it, is really frustrating. The only reason I'd unsubscribe due to a removal of Legacy Gear, is that it would be the "straw that broke the camel's back" for me. I've felt as though many of BioWare's latest decisions have just been to artificially draw out and force players to waste more time doing the same stuff. There's a lot I could complain about, but I chose instead to offer positive reasons for keeping one aspect of the game going. And, if done right, Bioware could make a profit. Why not try to make money where possible?

Okay, So I've heard rumors that legacy gear may be removed at some point. This is one of the worst business model changes possible, and I'll explain why in a bit. First of all, Legacy Gear has been around for most of the game's lifespan, since they introduced the class specific legacy gear on capital planets years ago. Yes, people have used it to pass gear around to alts and shortcut the ridiculous gear grind, where most of the token gear is thrown away as useless enhancements and too many critical based mods are shoved down our throats. But let's look at this from another perspective. What about motivation to play, and customer satisfaction in terms of in-game quality of life? Early on, we were encouraged to level alts of each class to see all the stories, and legacy perks further encouraged us to build more alts for additional benefits. In fact, you need multiple characters to self-sufficiently craft your own gear. So, with all this encouragement to level alts, and we won't even mention 12x experience incentives, does BioWare REALLY expect us to want to spend the time to gear each alt individually? Especially since alternate faction alts are just copies of original faction 'toons! Not to mention the fact that there isn't a whole lot of interesting content to keep a single character engaged at end-game. Given such a focus on leveling alts, Legacy Gear becomes valuable to players, if not absolutely critical to maintaining manageable levels of gearing. Do you really think people would waste time gaining reputation if you could only get regular 'orange' gear for looks? We already have access to cartel markets and collections. And honestly, most of the gear from that or even legacy vendors don't even look that great. But people will continue to grind reputation for the chance to splash new flavor into their Legacy Gear wardrobe. (We'll also not mention the fact that legacy gear has been thrown at us in the form of 4 free sets for each new toon!) So, why is removing Legacy Gear one of the worst business decisions possible? There are two main reasons. The first reason is the detriment to player enjoyment, and thus customer satisfaction. Especially at a time when reasons to continue playing the game are falling away. There's almost no point to doing Flashpoints anymore, as you don't get gear that's worthwhile and "comms gear" is all but useless compared to easily obtained SM operations gear. The Second reason this is a bad business model, and the most potent reason at that, is that BioWare is throwing away the potential to make tons of money in the form of potential cartel coins and further incentives to subscribe! Think about a hypothetical scenario where, with a bit of code, you can flag gear with a Boolean that if (player.isSubscriber and item.isCartelMarket and item.isUnlockedToCollection) { enableLegacyBankFlag(item)}. You know, if people are willing to grind rep for cool looking Legacy Gear, they're also more inclined to keep/maintain their subscription to be able to continue to use the functional benefits of Legacy Gear. And by allowing Cartel Market gear to essentially function as legacy gear when unlocked to a collection, you give players a LOT of incentive to unlock more gear sets to their collections. This means more money in your pockets, BioWare!! Heck, why stop there. If you refactor your code such that each moddable set of of gear has a 'LegacyEnabled' attribute, you might even be able to sell special tokens for cartel coins which could flag a single regular item as Legacy Gear. If you sold them for 1000 Cartel Coins each, and allowed it to apply to earpieces, implants, and relics, you'd be able to get a potential of 14,000 cartel coins for a single class type and role. Not to mention the fact that you'd be able to get another 5,000 Cartel Coins each time that character was able to get new Earpieces, Implants, and Relic upgrades!! Then think of that in terms of dollars. If you have a person with several varieties of class types or roles, such as commando healer, sage dps, sage healer, etc, then you have a potential for 10's of thousands of Cartel Coins!! And there are people willing to spend that kind of money for the functionality and convenience of Legacy Gear that actually looks cool and interesting. So, let's do a little math. Say we have someone with 5 'different character types they'd like to buy Legacy Gear tokens for. Right off the bat, you'd potentially get 70,000 Cartel Coins for all the tokens they'd need. And then, say that they get a new set of Earpiece, Implants, and Relics for each archetype. That's another 25,000 cartel coins spent! Now say that your artists and content generators produce a MUST-HAVE super awesome looking set of amazing gear! Going the token route, that could mean at least 7,000 more credits to create a new set of legacy gear. Each new interesting saber or blaster design could net you another 1,000 coins per token spent, IN ADDITION to the original cartel coins spent to gain said equipment. We're looking at a potential for over 100,000 Cartel Coins worth of in-game content for a 'single user'! At the current rate for getting coins, say they spend 39.99 for 5500 coins. That's over $727.09 for a single user! And that could continue to grow! And you could even code it such that tokens can only be used by subscribers, or perhaps you can only keep the benefit of legacy gear by being a subscriber. That's another $15/month or so per account. If you implement this sort of code, you could potentially gain and/or maintain over $900 within a single year or so by account. Now, granted some of that may be reduced based on what people can afford to drop into the game. But there are certainly a good number of working professionals willing to pay for convenience and functionality in a game that would also be more enjoyable for them to play. Otherwise, if you remove Legacy Gear functionality, you risk alienating many subscribers and thus losing out on about $180/year per account in addition to the loss of potential gains. You make the call. Are you guys smart? Do you want to make money? Or, are you dumb, and have an aggressive hatred for material wealth and monetary resources for improving your cash cow? Also, another good idea for cartel coin unlock: 2000 Cartel Coins, or even 4000 Cartel Coins just to unlock the feature of a Legacy Bank upgrade to store credits ala Guild Banks. This would be highly sought after by many players for sheer convenience and better monetary tracking across their account! Yours Truly, A Current Customer and Fan. (provided you don't suddenly lose your senses and take away Legacy Gear, causing me to unsub)

Again, that's another great point. But perhaps there's another way to look at it. Essentially, we gear up to pass the new content, right? What if we turn this thing on it's head and add an operation buff that increases your stats (while in that operation only) by 1% per boss defeated? So, if you clear 5/10 bosses, you'll have a 5% boost to stats and dmg reduction for the operation. And after clearing it fully, you will have a 10% bonus, so that you can clear it more successfully, and also be able to help others get through it who don't have the boost. Or, perhaps there's a buff that ramps up, the more you attempt certain fights, so that your character has gained "experience" in dealing with that particular enemy and after each time you fight that encounter, your abilities or stats become more effective, until you cap at some reasonable level such as would be compared to having the "gear" for it. Yes, we can all think of reasons why not to do something fun and innovative, or we can come to the table with creative solutions as to how this could be accomplished and still provide players with enjoyment and incentive. I'd think the buff route would be the easiest to implement, but that's just one suggestion. And really, operations aren't solely about the gear. I run many ops without getting anything (other than comms). I enjoy them because it's something you can confront as a guild and have fun doing. Heck, another thing you could do is add in cool special moves that bosses use which certain classes can learn. Maybe there's a boss that does a forward dash with a sword/saber that cuts all of the opponents in a line. This move could then be learned after so many times fighting that boss and "experiencing" the attack. Then you'd have a cool new ability to use that would change some of the dynamics in your questing. Maybe it would have to be only usable in that operation, or not allowed in PVP, but would be another incentive to run operations. Or, perhaps a <boss>-bane attack, that you can learn after fighting that boss so many times. This could be an achievement based ability that lets you do more dmg to that boss alone when you use this attack. (Maybe Bestia is bad at blocking attacks from behind, and your character has "developed a new attack" that when used from behind the boss does more dmg than standard attacks. It doesn't have to be over powered, but would add an interesting new look at boss fights and character progression. The moves-learned idea would be fun because you could apply that to other quests too. And for quests, you might be able to do more challenge oriented quests, like survive until extraction against increasing numbers of troops. Or having random NPC's ambush you in certain areas, where you might fight against a sith master of blades or something and/or find a way to convince him that it's not worthwhile to fight. Anything new would be a welcome change.

That's a good question! And that would be something that could change how quest areas are set up. New quests could be more story driven, and perhaps offer different versions of the story. There's already the reputation aspect of daily areas that people farm for aesthetic gear. Maybe future expansions would even be innovative enough to offer more sandbox-style quests that guildies and friends can do in groups for RP purposes. Something that would be open enough as a back-drop story for them to use creatively in story telling. Perhaps by doing certain quests, it changes how NPC's interract with your character. Maybe by doing enough dark-side versions, NPC's in that area will cower in fear from your character. Or by doing enough light-side versions, they'll cheer you on, and exalt you as a hero. Perhaps you can even apply rep' to guilds and make NPC's respond to folks in your guild with praise. Or, have quests apply to some sort of fame leaderboard where your guild can be held as the greatest champion, or scourge, in a particular area. Who knows? There could be all manner of new incentives for people to do quests, or have the option not to. That's where the idea of a fresh new approach would be interesting. It would encourage creative solutions, rather than pulling the "red button" further away from people so that they have to walk a bit, then plop down and resume pushing it to get the same treat. One of the frustrations I have, is that after an expansion, toons that I don't play as often (but still enjoy) fall behind in the gear and/or level race. So when I want some variety, and want to change things up by playing an old favorite, I have to first grind a bunch of gear for them so that they're up to par with the rest. It's annoying and repetitive.

Sure, but what I'm proposing is that we end the leveling and gearing where they are now. And focus more on story line and other forms of progression. Or, at the very least...getting rid of leveling post 55. I've already leveled 10 toons to max, twice in this game, and many more times on other games. It's a pointless endeavor when you really look at it. You end up in the same place in relation to the rest of the game, except that now there are parts of the game that become a "waste of time" since it grants neither experience or gear, and you'd have to be focused on leveling and gearing all your toons through the same small bit of end-game content over and over, until they're all right back where they started from. Once solution, then, could be 'level phasing' where former max level characters can go back to old content, but have that old content 'boosted' to match the players experience range and give you more options to level back up. But then, that's essentially the same overall result that I'm proposing. You just have the illusion that you're getting stronger, when you end up in the same level compared to the environment. How many times do we have to do the same exact thing to maintain the status quo? Why not be inventive, interesting, and new? There's still progression in achievements and competition in who can do which fights first, or fastest, or more effectively. So why not remove the redundancy from it?

Heck yeah! That would be awesome!

I completely agree with this suggestion! I'd even be willing to spend real cash to enable it! There are certain looks that I like, and would like to keep across multiple toons.

Greetings to All, Developers and Customers alike, I have been thinking about a better experience within SWTOR. With every expansion, in most every other MMO these days, we get a new level cap, and/or a new tier of gear to climb, along with all the new content designed for that new level. But really, does it even matter? Essentially, we have to get back to where we were in relation to the enemy (be it Mobs or other players), but stats aside, the ratio is essentially the same. The only difference is that older content become obsolete because we now out-level/out-gear it so much that it is trivial. So, we're all packed into the newest content, while all of the old stuff fades to memory unless you do weekly quests just for a few comms, which you need to get your gear back into BiS/working order. I propose something else. I propose a new take on end-game expansions that keeps old content relevant, removes the need to "re-balance" everything continuously, enables players to better enjoy the game, and encourages development efforts are used best on expansion projects. Firstly, let's touch on the current frustration people I know, and myself personally, have with the current take on MMO expansions. Many of us have been playing MMO's for many years now. In that time we have leveled countless toons and alts to max level and gear, over and over, and over again. We've all had those "here we go again" moments, when new gear and level caps come out, making our current gear (and essentially all the hard work done raiding for it) useless. We have to spend more time in that "I need to get more levels to get to the 'interesting' or 'challenging' part of the game" phase. We've already hit end-game status more times than I can count...why do it repeatedly, when it's not necessary? Why can't we just keep our status and levels, and just enjoy the game without the need to level/gear all of our toons over again? Not to mention, people who are leveling up, always tend to wait longer before being able to experience that 'super sweet top teir ability' as increased level caps push those abilities higher into the tree. We already have enough skills and buttons to push. This just adds to the complexity of class balance and more QQ's until things are relatively fair once more. Why not get all the classes to where they should be, then leave them there? Additionally, does any of that really matter? We get new levels and gear, which essentially adds to our stats, but then diminishing returns has to be enforced so that the overall percentages return to 'normal'. And, yes, the enemies are tougher, but so are we. And we're then just trying to ultimately climb back to where we were, without the feeling that we've gained anything. Well, sure, DPS numbers go up, but so do boss/enemy hitpoints. Essentially, we go back to where we were again. Why bother? Why not do something different? Sure, new looking armor is always cool, but that doesn't need to be new tiers of gear that make older gear obsolete. The ratio of gear to encounter always ends up in the same place. How about we remove the need to worry about these things and just enjoy the game? And what about the old content? Sometimes we level so fast, there isn't a need or desire to experience everything on the way up. I'm not suggesting we change what was, just what is going to be. Why not add new avenues for character advancement, and for new and challenging content? Why not leave gear and levels the same so that current content stays interesting years down the line? Say, for example, it's been 5 years from now, and I recall flashpoints that I really had fun with, or operations, quests, etc. At that time, the mentality would be "I've got to stay competitive, I can't waste time on 'greyed out' content when I need to level/gear for flashpoints, operations, or PVP". Sure, you could make them ultra-hard-mode, or legacy-mode, or whatever you want to call it...which is essentially rebalancing that content for future levels. But why? Why not leave it all relevant, and we can just grow the current library of optional content in which we decide to adventure with our friends? Okay, so I'm sure everyone who's decided to read this all the way to this point is probably thinking "okay, but how do you keep players interested in the game then?" Indeed, how would we keep players engaged and interested, and entice them to remain subscribers, etc, etc? That's where I suggest an alternative to character advancement. We have several factions now, with whom we can gain reputation and access to new gear. What about the addition of new factions in old places, or even the ability to take on roles to which NPC's can react differently to? There's always plenty of space for new story, new planets, new content such as the star fighter mode, new operations with new and interesting mechanics that keep things challenging, etc. Or, we could even come up with new and clever ways to improve characters, like being able to learn certain abilities from boss fights, or perhaps even certain classes. Say, for example, you want to change the animations for Master Strike, or Mortar Volley. You could learn a ability that would essentially share a cool-down with your old ability, and do the same thing, but would look much cooler or even just let you stand out amonst others of your class. Or maybe it's an ability that adds to your utility in a group, but doesn't break the dps balance in operations. Perhaps you can build or customize experience with current abilities to give them more personality for different playstyles you want to try. In essence, you could adjust abilities for more burst, but longer cooldowns, or more even damage, with less 'Random Number Game' mechanics. Maybe you want to have more spikey and unreliable dmg in PVP to throw people off, or the ability to learn 'feint' animations to add more PVP meta-game and trick players into wasting counters or using 'feint counters', etc. The limit is our imagination, for new ways to experience the game in further expansions. But guess what? If you look into alternate forms of content and lateral advancement, you will have a game that pioneers new things and bring people to the game because it will be more interesting than other games out there. Gear and levels is a pointless side task. We should just be able to focus on the fun stuff. In addtion, you'd see more RP happening across the game, as people wouldn't feel the need to be grinding for gear or experience, and would actually spend time traveling to all the now-relatively-unused content. Some people would enjoy more of the other type of experience in relation to PVP/PVE, because they could get all their gear caught up and then just enjoy each for what they were, without being reset to 'useless' level after an expansion. Players who have left may come back to experience new, or even familiar, content since they'd still be 'relevant' or playable after the time they've been gone. So, let's encourage the devs to look into this and other forms of alternate character progression. Please reply to this with other ideas you'd like to see for new content, or new advancements, that will get us out of the same cycle. After all, we'll be hitting another expansion sometime soon, and it's always frustrating to have to run the race again, and not be able to enjoy the game fully. Anyhow, just something to think about. Feel free to agree or agree to disagree.

This has some good advice, at least in the OP, can we get a sticky for this thread?

I can say that I truly admire this guild and I am forever grateful to have found such a wonderful group of people! I have said it before, and I'll say it again, the only reason that I continue to play SWTOR is because of the great community and family here in The Army of Light. I enjoy having a guild of mature and competent players who have a disciplined approach to gaming. I'm always impressed by our Operation teams, and it is good to see our fine guild grow with ever new members. Each person brings new personality and opportunities to group, raid, or pvp. So I would encourage anyone seeking a well established and organized guild with security and stability to apply to our guild. You'll be happy you did, and in addition, you'll bring some of what makes you special into our family! There's a link to the application in my signature.

Come and join the Army of Light and defend the Republic against its enemies! We are a guild which is centered around honor, respect, and maturity. We welcome anyone, and discriminate only against fools and trolls. We have an awesome community of selfless and devoted members who put the needs of the guild before personal gain. If you're wanting to be a part of something greater than yourself, sign up today! (link is in the signature)

Joining this guild has certainly allowed me to enjoy SWTOR more than I would have otherwise. I feel like I'm a part of something decent, and I enjoy the maturity and respect that we have for one another. I'm proud of the fact that our guild is full of skilled and friendly people. We have people involved in end-game raiding, player-vs-player, and role-playing aspects of the game. We are always looking for friendly, mature, and active players to welcome into our community. If you're looking for a guild, and are tired of the drama and immaturity found so prevalently in MMO's, apply with us today!

The republic side should get the ability to unlock the Cathar as a playable race, at the very least as Jedi! I see them all over the Jedi temples and I'm really quite disappointed that they weren't playable from the start!! Aric Jorgan is one too, so why not open it up to everyone, but MAN that would be the most AWESOME race to play!