I just came back after several years away, and I don't even know what conquest points are. GSF is my favorite thing to do, and I wouldn't mind earning a fair number of points for it, whatever they do. However, there is still a real issue in GSF which is that not enough people play it, so when guild premades log in they get matched up against a bunch of randos and curbstomp them. This tends to happen repeatedly until the guild premade gets bored. My point here is that "infinitely repeatable" reward quests for winning matches will only encourage these guilds to stay in GSF longer, making it miserable for everyone else who is flying solo or trying to learn the game. This will only result in EVEN FEWER people playing GSF, which would be going in the wrong direction. And of course, all the solo flyers will be losing a lot, and not getting any conquest points. Performance-based quests also won't cut it; even decent to good pilots won't rack up many/any kills on a team of random noobs against a guild premade with decked-out ships. Those games are like 50-5, and typically result in being swarmed by multiple enemies almost immediately after spawning. And please don't just say "well get in a GSF guild, dummy," because being on the winning side of a curbstomp is only very marginally more fun than being on the losing side.

Excellent points Enkidu. You're absolutely right that the games I'm comparing it to are all single-player and have no PvP...PvP is, of course, notoriously hard to balance, even when you're not also trying to balance the same classes around PvE (see the neverending cycle of League of Legends nerfs/buffs). You're also right in that this game has progressively moved away from requiring/encouraging any kind of interaction, except for PvP or Ops. (Not to derail the subject). I played DAoC a little way back when. Vanilla WoW was like that in a way; your description of the one master crafter on the server who was needed for a particular item reminded me of it. That actually reminds me of another thing that SWTOR gear lacks: any kind of unique attributes or abilities. Everything just has basic stats and a damage rating; no procs, nothing. This just adds to the feeling that "any level 216 weapon will do" and there isn't much sense of accomplishment for getting it. My hunch is that the devs just aren't marketing this at the RPG crowd anymore, and they're going instead for, as you describe, the TellTale crowd, but with shiny customized outfits.

Disciplines don't allow for any meaningful choice beyond picking the discipline itself. After which, the entire path of progression is entirely predetermined (besides utility points, and I explained why I think they are lacking). Compare this to Mass Effect, Dragon Age (Inquisitor was pretty dumbed-down but even it has more choice than SWTOR), the Witcher, D&D based games like Baldur's Gate, Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin, or just about any other RPG where you choose what ability/trait/etc to advance every time you level up, and in many cases have significant latitude in choosing which abilities you even have access to.

TLDR; Almost all meaningful choice in directed the way in which your character advances has been eliminated in favor of purely cosmetic choices. This is not very fun to someone who enjoys RPGs. First let me say that I'm not trying to hate on the game; I started playing at launch, and have now re-subbed twice (fairly briefly each time). I've put hundreds of hours into the game, finished all the class stories, and generally would consider myself a fan of the game. I'm a gigantic fan of Bioware in general. I've been playing PC RPGs since the late 80s, and one of the things that makes them so satisfying is the sense of progression. You know what this is: better loot, better abilities, and most importantly, having choices to make along the way that influence the direction you progress in. SWTOR in its current form has almost completely eliminated this. The last significant choice you make is choosing your advanced class. OK, so each advanced class has three disciplines, but you can swap between those virtually at will, so that doesn't count. Some specific issues: -Disciplines. Ugh. So the reasoning behind the change was that the talent trees were basically unbalanced, and people in a given class were invariably choosing all the same talents. The correct fix for this is balancing the talent trees. But no, instead we get all the choice removed from leveling up. And don't say "But utility points..." No. Not only are utility point options virtually identical for every single class, but they also have many no-brainer options depending on what you like to do (PvP v PvE), and so are no better than the old talent trees. Most of them, furthermore, are simply passive buffs to existing abilities, so their effects are not very interactive and at worst almost unnoticeable. -Crafting. I used to have a whole family of crafters, who would help each other out by making cool stuff. It was satisfying to progress a character's crafting skill and acquire recipes, because this would mean better gear for my other characters. Crafting is now a) unnecessary due to the overall ease of getting through the game; b) highly impractical because you move through planets so quickly you immediately outlevel your gathering skill; c) mostly pointless until endgame, again due to the speed with which one levels up; d) in the end, almost entirely cosmetic. Which leads me to... -Gear. Where to begin. The problems here are inextricably intertwined with those of crafting. Namely, the game is too easy to even care about the quality of your gear most of the time. Even PvP has Bolster, which is plenty until endgame. Green drops are nothing but vendor trash, especially now that companions can't use them. Crafted gear is good for cosmetic reasons only, and at this point it all sucks compared to Cartel gear (in appearance, that is). Even blue/purple drops are mostly pointless; due to the mastery/adaptive armor changes, at least you can use anything you find, but it's easier to just collect comms and buy equally good gear from vendors. The level 65 vendor gear is obviously intended to be the staple gear for all players, whether you wear it as-is or rip the mods out to put in your Cartel orange gear. Summary: gear doesn't matter until endgame, then you just grind dailies/ops/whatever for comms, which you use to purchase from among a very small selection of gear/mods, themselves possessing very limited variance in stat allotment. The end result of all this is that most choice in how your character progresses has been eliminated from the game. I've always thought that all MMOs are essentially wheels in a hamster cage, and the successful MMO is the one that can disguise that fact the best. Making the progression so robotic, choiceless, and easy pretty well kills the illusion. One final thought: sadly, I think a lot of this has to do with the F2P business model that Bioware/EA has chosen to use. The entire focus of this game now seems to be on acquiring mountains of stuff that has only cosmetic value. That may be something, and some people may dig it, but it is definitely not a traditional RPG. P.S. I do still enjoy GSF, even though that is a completely different beast, and subject to its own problems.

OK, so I don't understand how all these new bugs are being introduced when the devs haven't done anything to balance/improve GSF in who knows how long.... That said, let's review: 1. Random components are unselected from ships upon login. This could be ANY ship. At first it seemed it was just weapons, but now I've had both upgrades and systems show up empty. 2. Crew problems. On at least one of my characters, I can't pick anyone but Ashy to be my Engineer. I can temporarily select someone else, but (a) they don't become available as a co-pilot choice and (b) when I close the starfighter window and open it again, Ashy's back as my Engineer. Every time. On every ship. 3. I haven't experienced this (because I've shied away from wasting the reqs on a broken upgrade) but apparently Sabotage Probe breaks completely if you equip it with the "reduce target speed" T5 upgrade. This sucks, because that's pretty clearly a better option than the other T5 choice. 4. Who knows what else.... Once again...how exactly do you break something that hasn't received any attention in ages??? I realize that GSF isn't that popular, but a lot of people love it; it's the primary reason I started playing again recently. These are pretty bad bugs that need attention! EDIT: quit/reload fixed crew bug, but still

Thanks for all the info. I did find out about the cheap transfers last night and sent one of my characters over to Shadowlands. I got into three matches pretty quickly; definitely all PUGs. No chatter on the gsf channel (Republic side). Definitely an improvement over the current state of POT5, but I'll try Harbinger next...

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

Just came back after a long time gone, mainly because I wanted to play some GSF. My old server (POT5) seems dead; no one on the gsf channel, hardly anyone on the fleet, no pop after quite a long time in queue for GSF. As much as I don't want to start over outfitting my hangar, a fully upgraded ship isn't much use without any matches happening. So, what's the current server (US) with the most active GSF group?

That makes sense; guess I have no idea what those other guys were talking about when they posted.

I saw in another thread someone claimed to have access to any unlocked same-faction companions across his legacy. ????? I certainly don't have this. If I start a new character, they have exactly zero comps unlocked for GSF. Am I missing something?

So why would the game allow to to destroy it and receive a message that you destroyed it when really you can't do such a thing? Either way it's weird and misleading.

Regardless, it's a very straightforward bit of coding that could be easily implemented if the devs had any desire to do so. Why they don't is beyond me...

Several times it seems like I destroy a seeker mine that is right in front of me, then it hits me anyway. This was pretty much confirmed yesterday when I saw one, shot it, saw the message "You destroyed so-and-so's seeker mine," then I see the thing flying straight at me anyway, and it kills me. Combat log verified that I was killed by said seeker mine. I suppose there is a slight chance that another mine from the same player hit me at the exact same moment, but that seems pretty remote. And even in that case there was the graphical bug of the mine flying at me after I blew it up. Anyone else seen this?

Definitely not boosting. I'm inclined to agree with GraydenTOR.

i agree that it could be lag, but only of the self-induced, intentional variety. As I said in the first post, naturally-occurring lag doesn't happen in precise intervals for an entire match.

I seem to see this now about every third or fourth match, and it is beyond old. I know others have seen the same thing. Ships (usually bombers) that simply can't fly in a smooth line; instead they "jump" through space at short intervals that make them nearly impossible to hit with blasters unless you are right behind them, and make missile lock-on more difficult because of the second-check mechanic that ensures the target is still in your firing arc when you fire. It is a very lag-like effect, but PLEASE DON'T TELL ME IT IS TRUE LAG. Here's why: 1) It is generally not a temporary effect. Players I see doing this do it all match, every match. 2) Anyone with that bad of a connection would have an impossible time doing anything in the entire game besides flying a bomber in GSF. 3) The fact that it is almost entirely bombers, the only ship that could possibly play halfway effectively with such a thing happening, is highly suspicious. 4) The "jumping" occurs at precise, regular, consistent intervals, such as two jumps per second. True lag does not happen that way. While these pilots are not generally that effective, they can still be a major nuisance in holding or putting pressure on a satellite in Domination. I report them every time I see them and I hope other players do as well. Fix this!! It's been going on since bombers got introduced in 2.6.

lol

Word of warning though, I've seen bombers put down beacons right in the middle of a huge fight, and that's not exactly where you want to spawn.

I also play on Pot-5, and on both sides (though not in any guilds and primarily solo). On my Pub toon I have a W/L percentage of about 60% (or thereabouts, haven't looked lately). Imp side, 40%. There are usually 3-5 times as many people logged into the Pilot chat channel on Pub side, which says something. As far as side-switching, it's a lot like what Vulta says happens on his server. The best Pub pilots (Black Squadron guild and a few others) fly together, use VOIP, stomp Imps and then switch to Imp side and do the same thing to the then-depleted Pubs. I'm not blaming them for this; it just is what it is. Only rarely have I seen Black Squad players on their Imp toons flying against other Black Squad players on their Pub toons. And they seem to spend most of their time on Pub side, only coming over to Imp side to get the daily in. Of course I'm generalizing and there are exceptions, but that's basically how it seems to go. Certainly there are more dedicated veteran pilots who play Pub-side regularly. I will say that later at night (after 10-11 pm Central time) Imperials seem to win a lot more, and Pub teams seem to have a lot more newbs. Personally, with the sadly low level of participation in GSF vs server population, cross-server GSF queues seem like an inevitability. Although I do enjoy seeing the same folks over and over again....

Can't quote the voluminous various responses of WiseStranger to save space but generally: 1. I didn't mean to imply that one should charge head on at a gunship from 15km. Duh. 2. Calling GSF a FPS is AT LEAST as off-base as comparing it to ground PvP. FPS's don't have any kind of "evasion" or "accuracy" mechanics. They might have weapon/item progression, but not NEARLY to the degree that GSF does. If you don't like the comparison, fine. But balance between range, damage potential, crowd control, mobility etc is inherent to ANY PvP experience regardless of whether you have to aim to hit an opponent or not. So to me the comparison is legit. 3. Your suggestion on how to deal with one who spots you is to....run away and wait for them to target someone else, then you sneak up on them? Really?? I mean, that's what I generally do, but that is not BALANCED. That is what one is FORCED to do when they are in a battle they can't win by normal means. Saying that it's perfectly legit that the only way to kill a certain type of foe is when you have 100% drop on them is ludicrous. 4. Oh, so I need to build my ship specifically to take out gunships if I want to be able to deal with them? I see, that's so balanced considering that the gunship pilot can only build one way (your admission), that just so happens to be effective against EVERYTHING. 5. Suggesting that in order to take down two gunships working together I need to organize my team to go after them is just LOL. Does anyone even read the chat inside GSF? Rarely. Does a team have to work together to stop 2 scouts or strikers who are working together? No. And don't suggest that I need to be in a guild/premade/using VOIP to deal with gunships, because again, that is not BALANCED. All in all, your post is basically just a string of insults, with very little reasonable argument. You take everything I say out of context, avoid the main question, and basically say "L2P." Spoken like a true gunship lover who enjoys his advantage. In response to the poster after you, who says it's no problem taking down an ISOLATED gunship, well, of course. Isolated ones aren't nearly the problem that multiple gunships working together present. Plus, I can only presume that in your scenario, you spot the gunny first. So what if I'm engaged with someone else, and the gunship spots me and fires his ion railgun? Game over? Anyway, just to restate my main assertion: I'm NOT saying that there is "no way to deal with any gunships evarrrr." I'm not saying that jumping in an un-upgraded gunship is like pressing the "I win" button. What I'm saying is that they have the ability to do massive amounts of damage from extremely long range, with an aiming mechanic that is very easy to hit with, and in that SAME SHOT they can also slow the enemy ship to a crawl and leave them vulnerable not only to the gunship but to anyone else who happens to be nearby. It is my opinion that any "class" in a PvP game that can only be dealt with when you can catch them completely unawares, is NOT BALANCED. By suggesting that the best way to deal with gunships is to sneak up on them/wait til they target someone else and are otherwise engaged actually supports my argument. In order to do what you suggest, in a match with multiple gunships, I would literally have to ignore every other ship on the field and concentrate only on hunting down gunships. That is simply not possible, and no other ship requires that type of singular focus. Hence, UNBALANCED.

I don't think you understood the point of the post; I wouldn't feel it was an issue AT ALL if it wasn't required to be competitive against bomber/gunship heavy comps. Moreover, 2500 is actually kind of a lot to a new player who earns 50-100 req in their first match, gets owned by gunships, and says, "Holy mackerel, I have to get owned 25-50 more times before I can buy a gunship???" and then quits. Which is not what GSF needs right now, considering the serious lack of players.

If anyone knows Zileas from Riot Games/League of Legends, he has basically launched a crusade against "anti-fun" and I'm pretty sure he'd have a field day with Gunships.

I LOL'ed at this. +1

I agree that 2500 isn't that big a deal, but 5k kind of takes awhile, so if the ship you REALLY want to buy is a Pike or Sting, but you're forced to spend your first 2500 req on a Gunship you may or may not even really want because it's required to be situationally competitive, that's kinda wack IMO. Then you end up having to get 7500 to buy the ship you really want, not to mention being able to get additional crew members. Honestly, even though I'm primarily a scout pilot, I'd almost think Striker/Gunship would be a better first pair if the devs don't want fresh toons to have 3 ships. You could at least be viable in any situation, and scouts are pretty tough going for brand new players anyhow IMO.

^^ This. And it goes for strikers, too. Not only can you not use barrel roll (if you have it) you're flying at a snail's pace (upgraded ion gun slows you even further).