The cost (worst considering) of doing this is using the PVE shell without the PVP armourings. Is it worth it? I personally haven't done this because if it's competitive PVP, Pyro is a must. Arsenal in competitive PVP is too easily shut down, and too channeled/root centric. So it it's just PUG PVP, I'm not sure I'd go through all of that, plus take the armouring hit. (Correct me if I'm wrong about this because as said, I haven't gone this route.) *Oh forgot to add: The 5 second jet boost bonus is quite handy.

Weekly? When did we reduce the drunken PVP nights? The IMP-baddy-PVP drinking game is a hit on an a daily basis! (why wait 7 days?)

Are you talking about DPS PVP or PVE? The last 'buff' Merc's got from Bioware show me that Dev's do NOT play competitive PVP at all (at least on mercs). The buffs are a full out kick in the junk to the class that show complete lack of understanding of the higher end PVP mechanics. It was after this lethargic attempt at a fix that I made a full time move from playing my Merc to my Powertech. That being said.... I have full warhero Merc and Powertech. I PVP 90% of the time. Here's my two cents, straight to the heart of the matter, no B.S.: 1. Merc is screwed over with channeled/cast abilities to proc free Rail Shot. (obviously this is interuptable, and roots you). PT proc's rail shots on two insta casts. This means A) your rotation cannot be broken and B) you retain movement in a PVP environment that is very dominated by mobility. 2. PT has range reduction but to be fair, the PT lives off of Flame Burst so I am ok with it. 3. Merc CAN heal, but this is nearly useless except reducing downtime. 4. Both classes suck for utility comparatively speaking. However, Powertech's pull is quite a deal breaker compared to Merc's cruddy AOE punt. 5. Merc CC wise: Unless you waste your 'insta-cast' on Concussion Grenade, almost any half witted premade will NEVER let you get that off. So Merc really only has the Stun Dart. Powertech has the stun dart, BUT also has the very short, but extremely important Carbonize aoe. Which leads me too.... 6. Survivability: Both suck. They are both the slowest characters in the game. They both have almost no escapability.... no mobility, no leap (unless PT tank). So I go to point 5 for survivability. It is VERY limited however again I discount the heal. I rarely get a scan in on my merc unless someone has stunned the other guy. 7. Other trees: Pyrotech I give to the Powertech. Middle trees? I give the nod to Powertech again. Why? Mobility, utility. The AOE 3 stacked Flamethrower is immense slowdown help in stuff like doorstar. Your bionics help, your AOE damage reduction is huge in an era of smash monkeys. 8. Match ups: Pyrotech wins "most" of these that the Merc wouldn't. I know first hand the incredible frustration of playing Merc in ranked PVP.... both classes again suffer survivability issues BUT the Powertech CAN burst his way through danger as his best chance of winning a 'match up'. At the end of the day stealth classes destroy both of these guys. You're too slow, the stealth scan is a JOKE against the common sight of Shadow/Assassin teams. Except either class to get completely owned against most competent Assassins/Shadows. (But they pretty much own the 1v1 arena along with Ops and Marauders.) Hope this gives you some insight. I will conclude with the following: Most bad players IMO flock to Mercenaries. I'd say easily the worst players in the game gravitate towards it. I think this is because standing in a corner hitting tracer missile IS the easiest way to play PVP. But a "Good" Arsenal Merc is hard to find. I like to think I did it well for what it can do, but you MUST be prepared to deal with a lot of 'broken' rotations because you will be the sack that every warrior/stealther is trying to kick. Meanwhile the baddie Mercs will still be hitting tracer missile.... because it's easy. Powertech is what I spend 80% of my time on now. I hate that this is true, but even looking at Pyrotech it is much better on a few different levels from Rail shot to utility.

My vote is obviously merc/commando. The best imo by a mile is assassin/shadow. ^This is also very true on my server. I cringe when I get stuck carrying them. I came to realize, although the class needs real help for PVP, the worst players gravitate towards Mercs, and Assassins. By far the worst players I know of gravitate towards merc. It's easy to be bad at. If ignored you can still do something while really not doing much. Assassins are the opposite. Being a DPS geared tank that can go invisible is tremendous asset... unless you have no idea how to do it.

Personally I don't think the hybrid damage is better... but survivability feels ten fold with the hybrid. In fact I can say I definitely do less damage, but I probably help a lot more in say... a huttball. I enjoy Polarity Shift, and the odd proc on Lightning storm.

The PVP meta ( on my server at least) seems to be so heavily melee and specifically it seems smash or cloak. If you're not cloaking, you're smashing. At least with stun bubbles it gives ranged a little more function. I feel like my ranged characters have a touch more meaningful presence in a match with stun bubblers. (IE: I try to pop bubbles.) I have a lot of 50's, and the only time I truly get perturbed at bubblers is with someone like my operative when I'm not paying attention. But even my op doesn't have a problem popping them -before- going in... or planning full resolve runs at bubblers.

Although the link above doesn't work for me I'm sure he's pointing to a spec very similar to mine. All you're missing is the (admittedly fun as heck) ability to T.B. someone. You're also kind of a jack of all trades so while you have some nice Lightning toys, and some good Madness skills, you won't do max damage from either tree. That said in 1.4's system of resolve, and quick time to death, I am finding it hard to NOT keep playing the hybrid. I'm fine giving up some damage for this.

Interestingly enough I find this era of the Star Wars universe (the Old Republic) to be one of the most fascinating. It's full of potential and depth.... I just imagine there would be too much complication in making movies of this era, but I'd love to see it.

This isn't a flame post; and it's not meant to be derogatory in any way. I've personally stopped trying to post constructive ideas about my mercenary (my favorite character) a long time ago. However, it becomes obvious after literally dozens of threads, and hundreds of posts, that the community at large has been asking for something to be done about Mercenaries (largely in PVP). Hundreds of us have given our ideas and _constructive_ feedback. In all honesty I don't think there is one other topic on all the forums that has continuous attention and demand for an answer, or better yet, positive change. It's obvious by some of the topics about game function, or character abilities that Dev's DO respond. So I have to ask why, given the enormous requests and feedback, why is no one getting back to us? I'm not sure what the goal is here..... surely it can't be subscription loss. And time has shown you can't brush this under a rug... it keeps crawling back out. Would someone please respond to us.... in some significant way? Tell us why Dev's think the class is fine, or what they are looking at. Or heck even let us know if you have no short term intention of touching the class.... we can all move on and kill the class officially then. But no response seems a little ridiculous considering the immense negative opinion the class receives on the forums! Could we please get a response?

Thanks again for the helpful feedback. I just wanted to add I've actually been contemplating a Sage for the reason you're describing. Even playing as other toons, it's always harder to figure out which Sage is hitting you in a WZ... Sorcs? No problem , follow the tether back to the dude in a robe. Unfortunately my guild is pure Imp. But I like the playstyle enough that I just might grind it out on Repside.

If this massive thread of discontent towards the Merc class isn't proof that dev's simply don't care, I don't know what is. I believe in the last patch, with the misguided (but good intentioned) idea of changing talented Rocket Punch, and crud heal (completely useless in PVP) the dev's believe the class is 'fixed'. I suggested in the Mercenary forums all sorts of solutions, and actual evidence of the ineptitude of this class in PVP. It doesn't matter, they don't listen. The best thing you can do is do what I did... roll a Powertech, and turn your Merc into a craft donkey. Or unsubscribe.... Dev's MAY listen to subscription numbers but I'm not so sure anymore. Personally I don't care very much for my Powertech, but he works, and physically he's similar to my Merc. I miss Arsenal a lot and I find Merc a lot funner in PVE (personal preference I suppose). But the difference in PVP is night and day (between a Merc and PT). How the dev's don't see this completely escapes me. Unfortunately even this monster thread, which has to be the 10th or so such thread in some for or another is completely ignored. BUT make a thread asking if F2P can wear purple underwear? That's going to get answered in a few days tops. As someone with several 50's, I still miss the merc a lot. I completely understand everyone's frustration in this thread. I also know first hand how horrid ranked PVP is for this class. On many levels I think the community deserves a real response from BIOWARE.... Even if BW think it's 'working as intended'. Bioware, this thread (along with all the others) deserves a response. Is Mercenary working as you see it should? If so, what are we doing wrong? If you don't think it's working as intended, why is it being treated like the red headed step child under the stairs? Bioware, please respond to your subscribing community... how many threads will it take?

Thanks a lot for this. The tweak to my build would be very minor to do what you're doing, and it makes sense. I'll give it a try. I'm not sure how much gear I need to really know if I'm operating at a 'high' level or not. It still appears really difficult for me to burst down competent melee in time, but I'm still just re-absorbing the rotation. Trust me, I've watched tons of your videos... you went from rep to imp right? I remember those older videos too. Really good stuff. I like that you show a lot of normal scenarios without highlights of wacking undergeared players who obviously don't PVP much. I wish this spec did a bit more damage. I noticed you use Force Lightning a ton.... Sometimes you seem to have really decent spike damage to try and finish a guy in a 1v1. How often do you use Shock as a closer? I was often told by the guys who wrote for SithWarrior.com that shock is a bad waste of force unless you are using it for a finish spike. I've wondered about how often good players use it really. Also I think the same guys who do the math (way beyond me here) heavily recommended the Force Pool expansion over the discount... so I'll probably stick with that, but otherwise I'll flip my points out of the heal for sure, get a bit more crit and pushback defense. Thanks a lot. I appreciate the insight into rotation.

I pushed with my Sorc in PVP for a while but ultimately gave up for a while and have had a lot more success in PVP with my other toons. BUT I still enjoy my Sorc as a character in every way -except- his PVP performance. I mean I want to do better with it.. .just trying to figure out how. So I came back to this thread and thought I would ask for -rotation advice-. This is my current build (I've probably jumped from pure Lightning to pure Madness to hyrbid 10 times since my last post here.) http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201oZbsMMdRr0zZcrfRoMz.2 ^ This is mostly for PVP, but I do PVE with it as well. My PVP rotation is typically: 1. Bubble up 2. Affliction/ Force Lightning / (proc wrath? If so) insta Crushing Darkness / Force Lightning / (proc wrath? If so) Lightning strike / (proc Lightning Storm? if so) Chain Lightning / Shock Finisher AOE Rotation: Deathfield / Polarity Shift / Chain LIghtning / Force Storm (Lightning Storm) / Chain Lightning How does this look for PVP? It really is similar for PVE but I think I need to change it up for PVE..... Am I over complicating the rotation? I've heard people basically say the DPS in this build comes from just Force Lightning... and it seems they are saying just spam Force Lightning which seems a little boring and too simple. ======================================= In 1 v 1 situations I typically find myself kiting a lot but if someone's resolve is up, I'm basically finished. I can't seem to out burst anyone so I rely on burst and CC. But even in matches where my Sorc is not constantly trounced or focused as an easy/soft target, I find my numbers lower than I want them to be. So if you have rotation advice I'd appreciate it. I know I could do more damage as pure Madness but I find our server focuses soft targets quite frequently, and as a result I'm relying heavily on Lightning for Backlash, Bindings, and Barrier. Thanks for helping.

First off, let's be clear, you have to be talking about Pyro for Powertechs... specifically (I know we are in the powertech forum, I just want to make sure you aren't lumping the lackluster Merc Pyro variant into your statement. ) While I agree that AP did not get a the boost it needed, I don't think Pyro is OP at all. It does great burst, but so do a lot of other specs now. I still think it your burst is off, Powertech is still not that great in one v one situations in ranked wz's. I've said it before but the 1v1 gods are still the 1v1 gods. PT is not in my top 3 honestly. Utility is 'ok', but not great. It is a -slow- character period, but it is good at putting pressure on healers.... as are some other characters. Frankly I'd love a boost to AP. But as someone who also has a geared Juggernaut, I can tell you the AoE ability of AP is really nothing in comparison.

1. The class isn't terribly survivable but thankfully burst still exists post 1.4 which in itself is our defense. Typically the 1v1 uber classes still win, and putting us in 'forced' melee range exposes us to that more than ever so situational awareness becomes paramount in 50 PVP (no more sitting back). 2. See above. The 1v1 gods are still 1v1 gods. I've watched piles of video, including 1v1 tournaments on PVP servers and Powertechs NEVER came close to winning those BEFORE 1.4. Post 1.4 you can't avoid these classes as you'll be forced to face them at an... intimate distance. Smash/Focus and Assassin/Shadows are all the rage in 50 PVP WZ's now. This makes AP more attractive but they still came quite short on it. It's just too slow and clunky mechanically. ==================================================================== 1.I watched most of your video but not being 50 really hurts it in my opinion. You're talking about NOT using IM while fighting people with 12K health. At 50 when you're in a ranked WZ standing off against a 26K+ health tank... trust me, you're using IM. You also have to use it in other situations that I am not sure if you got around to.... force cleanses off healers, get cloakers to uncloak, etc, etc. If I know I'm dying, I'll spam it on every red within a country mile of me before I go down.... Simply 'not using it' is unwise imho. It's my preference however, perhaps not yours. 2. Nice effort on the video for lowbies though. It will give them something to learn from. 3. A crucial change which _sort of_ alleviates the range issues of TD, and IM is the seperate cooldown on Dart. While Dart isn't -amazing- it is extremely valuable considering these range nerfs. 4. Firing up unload makes me grind my teeth. I have a 50 Warhero Mercenary as well and the Unload feels a lot better... well it is better. The thing I hate about unload as a Merc is the channeled aspect. I love how Powertech is so mobile... I just hate standing still... ever... Rapid shots ftw. Proof that Rapid shots is still the most valuable part of any Powertech's rotation:

I guess I was hoping to get away with one set for both specs in PVP, and even the limited PVE I do. I can see it's not possible. Plus I'm re-modding my warhero out and there just isn't enough time in the day to do all this stuff (plus it gets expensive!) I'm now just swapping armourings out depending on my mood... AP or Pyro. So I keep my pants as Combat Tech, and just swap 3 other armourings when I want to go AP. Kind of a clunky system, but it's all we've got I suppose. It's just too impractical for me to have 2 min/maxed sets of armour. Heck I even use this min/max set in PVE. Just wish there was another way that was less.... awkward and pricey. (IE: It would be easier to swap armour pieces as a whole rather than swap armourings every respec!)

This is awesome. The extra inclusion of Ravage now and then has really improved my numbers. I'm really enjoying the build again, and it's been nice moving away from Smash for a while... Unstoppable + Ravage on a stun bubbler who doesn't try to move because they think their bubble is going to save them is quite comical. I'm not even seeing that many Veng spec Warriors right now in PVP so I think it catches them off guard. What would be nice to have (since BW have done this with other classes) is give a top teir Veng skill that adds AOE DMG reduction. It doesn't put up smash numbers but I really enjoy the playstyle. Thanks for the solid advice and and putting a good light on the spec. Looking forward to your next video.

You use ravage that often? I find I use it after a leap with the immobilization + uninteruptable status + Vindicator set bonus, but after that... not so much. Maybe I should sprinkle it in more. I'm always concentrating on Shatter and Impale + Force Scream..... I am thinking of trying this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZfMrRrhddGRZMM.2 I used to take Payback for extra heal. Basically I would wait on ravage which by default is 30 Seconds. Minus "Ravager" (-3 Seconds) = 27 Second Ravage. With Rampage it can refresh Ravage (potentially) every ..... 6 seconds? Does that sound right? Do you use it *that* often? P.S. I'm seriously thinking of trying this again even if my PVP guild wants to disown me.. I'm very sick of Smash right now and miss the subtlety, and mechanics of Vengeance!

^ I was pretty much going to say this. I enjoy the vids but would love to see how you handle some of the (competent) 1v1 specs that I struggle with. Also I'm guessing you take Rampage? This confuses me a bit since the Veng rotation (completely opposite of Rage) gets kind of busy.

I know the common thought on Powertech PVP is to get Eliminator for Pyro builds. But I enjoy AP quite a bit, and I realize that running Combat Tech is more helpful in two ways: 1- The bonus to Carbonize, and 2- bonus to Rocket Punch crit. Meanwhile Eliminator just gives us the Rail shot bonus crit. The bread and butter of Pyro is Rail shot so this makes sense, but obviously Eliminator only helps us with that bonus. What's your take on it? How many of you run two sets? How many of you just stick with one or the other?

^That would be my argument for using HEC also... internal/elemental is the foundation of AP, is it not? Sure Rail Shot is great, but it's not near the big player in AP that it is in Pyro.

Yea, I don't think I can play AP in ranked, in fact if I went AP I'd imagine they'd want to replace me with another smash warrior, but it is fun. With all the smashing going on right now... AOE in general, I almost wish the top of the AP tree gave us 40% mitigation. It would have been a nice magic bullet to the state of PVP right now on my server. IE: if you don't smash/focus, you are probably a hybrid shadow/sin.

I agree.... I never post in these kind of threads normally but I LOVE my Mercenary, especially Arsenal spec. It is simply the worst 1v1 class in the game bar none. Instead of griping about it I have set up dueling sessions with several of what I consider the most difficult classes. In arsenal spec I was never able to even beat a full WH'd Watchman/Annihilation spec. In arsenal I had trouble actually making them even use god mode.... If you guys are blowing away classes like this.... I think you're full of it. Sorry, but I want to see real footage as well. And as an FYI, every day during lunch, and I mean EVERY day I look for video of this... I've never, ever seen it. I've seen -those- types of videos for every other class, but never a Merc. At the end of the day, with immense disappointment, I have shelved my Merc, brought a Powertech to 50 and transferred all War hero to him (that I could). I'm not going to argue the mechanics of Arsenal in this forum. I know it like the back of my hand, but if you're going to even attempt Pyro, you might as well roll a PT/VG because they do it better anyway. As a side note, I don't consider PT's/VG's very survivable but at LEAST you have burst capability and immunity to interrupts (IE. no cast time/channel abilities). I play this game too much probably, but 90% of it is spent PVPing with a lot of different characters. To me there is nothing lower on the hierarchy chart than DPS mercs. Nothing. I would -gladly- apologize to anyone who could prove me wrong with video.. in fact I'd LOVE it if you could because it would make me realize I have something to improve on.... so far, this doesn't exist.

I like all your ideas but Number.2 especially. I don't know about your server but for PVP mine is dominated by Smash/Sweep and Assasin/shadow tank hybrids. Our current de-cloaker seems woefully inadequate in the metagame on my server. I think an larger exposing field would be nice, but I've thought about the dot as well... it would make the power actually useful.

While I think noxxic is off on a few specs, I think you've quoted a fine Pyro build there and this is more or less an Advanced Prototype thread. I love AP.... it's too bad it's still a little lackluster. It's funny to me that it appears that my favorite 'fun' specs are not the ones that BW wants me to use in PVP. Lightning on my Sorc, Arsenal on my merc, AP on my Powertech, Vengeance on my Jugg... wow I really have it backwards! AP is fun, but it just doesn't cut it at all in high end PVP. Typically my Powertech is better geared for PVP than my Juggernaut, but everytime I play AP, I can't help but think how much better the AOE damage is on my Juggernaut in Rage spec... it's not even close. Jugg does it faster, easer, and it's undefendable now... (you can't stun a jugg out of AOE'ing you to death.) I too am bored out of my skull with Pyro.... but with all the smash/focus and cloakers in competitive PVP, I feel I am forced to play Pyro.