Odahviin
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Posts posted by Odahviin
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So basically, you're good, but the enemy team and your team mates are all bads? That's called a geocentric perception of oneself.
omgosh right?
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That's what the terribads say. I don't hear any of the real contendors complaining.
Pat your self on the back champ, you can go right back to your corner and congratulate your self again on what an awe inspiring forum pvper you are.
trust me we are all impressed.
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Healing's fine.
It's not that healers are OP, its your team is UP.
L2P. Problem solved.
Or, if your own L2P isn't enough because your entire team sucks, then man up and get over it. PuGs are like slot machines. It doesn't ding every time.
L2P isn't an answer, there are many talented players who have an issue with healing in it's current state.
by your reasoning everyone should L2P a healer. And to be honest why shouldn't they? healers are enjoying their resurgence, I for one have never seen so many healers in wz's face tanking dps.
The issue is the same one facing heals previously, why play a dps?
Coordination of half or even a third of a wz team shouldn't be required to neutralise the effect of 1 class.
At the rate it's going soon everyone can roll a scoundrel / operative and daisy chain cross heal whilst holding hands around objectives that never get capped.
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Whoever is defending the current status of healing atm in pvp is doing their community a disservice.
It is so borked right now it isn't even funny, some classes more than others.
some tweaking needs to be done.
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Lag in wzs
in PvP
yeah i got it -
I think they need to nerf Cross damage. if one dps is attacking me damage from another dps should be nerfed.
Now same argument how stupid does that sound ? If you nerf cross healing your gonna kill ranked. Two healers in a ranked match can barely keep people up against a good group of players focus firing.
The problem is bad players make good players look like gods.
you forgot to mention heals output is more than dps output
therefore cross damage isn't on the same level as cross healing
buuuuuut nevermind
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I can pull up about a million threads about how bad TTK was pre 2.0. As a matter of fact right as 2.0 Hit everyone complaining about how much damage output was going in warzones. People complaining to much burst. Now its to many heals. So let me get this right one DPS should be able to Kill a healer with out having to worry about stuns and interrupts ? Ya sorry as a healer I should be able to keep myself alive against one DPS pretty much as long as I have force. If I cant I'm ineffective as a healer.
I'm honestly sick of dps complaining about healers. You wont get your high numbers IF YOUR DEAD. Do yall enjoy being dead ? Do you like respawn points cause that's what your asking for a Zerg fest. A match where everyone dies in one GCD.
Sorry no if you nerf healers once again you will have none. Right now every match I can get 1 million heals in a dps player has atleast 1 million damage. Its balanced and the poor derp dps players who cant interrupt or stun are made they cant roll their face over the keyboard and kill a healer.
Cross healing is the issue, not individual healers.
IMO the issue does need to be addressed, as it creates stalemates which are not enjoyable for either side.
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Lots of people have been complaining about the Undying Rage ability on the marauder when all you have to do is cc them when they use it and then use a ranged ability and kill them as soon as the cc is over...really not that bad.
Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.
Please feel free to Rate this so it can get more attention from Bioware.
Post your thoughts here.
Wow just WOW,
I mean is there anything else about the marauder AC you QQ'ers want to cry about?
how bout the fact that we can physically move in a warzone?
or perhaps that we can use 2 lightsabers
I mean ***.............
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Have it cost all the marauders current focus to use. Not even a big problem , but enough to slightly reduce the burst while it's popped. It would be similar to a Juggernaut switching to soresu form mid fight for better survivability.
interesting idea but it's not a stance dance.
Further to this why victimise one AC? It's not like we demand that the juggs last stand ability gets a rage penalty.
the players of this game need to stop attempting to do the devs jobs.
WE as the community do not have access to the metrics BW uses to balance it's AC's
Just because you anecdotally feel something is unbalanced doesn't mean it actually IS.
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If UR is nerfed then Marauders will have to be thrown a bone elsewhere. Other classes with the utility to stun, push/pull, and/or snare melee can survive longer than our 5 seconds of "godmode." Im failing to see the upsides of the suggested nerfs by the OP.
^exactly this
further to this smart players adapt.
here's an example
marauder pops UR at the end of a 1v1 fight on my commando OH noes everyone says! you immediately going to die by default.
knockback -> snare -> assault plastique, didn't even hang around to see him die.
I ran off towards the objective injected a medpack and just waited for the medal pop.
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Redesign Undeying Rage / Guarded By The Force:
- Reduce All Damage Taken -AND- Healing Received by 99%
or - Reduce Damage Done by 50% for it's duration
or - Deflect Either White -OR- Yellow damage abilities for the duration, Not Both[/u].
or - Make the interrupt ability cost 2 rage & decrease the duration of the 20% heal debuff
A marauder at say 2k health that uses this cooldown feels like there is no risk involved in the 50% health sacrifice (ok I am at 2k, so I am going to die anyway, lets sacrifice 1k health which is irrelevant at this point) and then is healed to or above 50% or has about 3 extra globals to finish off their target whom cannot do damage to them and has to sit through it. There is no other class in this game that has an almost 99% immunity cooldown to both White & Yellow Damage attacks.
Examples:
Assassin Defensive Cooldown Force Shroud - Only stops Yellow Damage (Tech) for a few seconds
Imperial Agent Defensive Cooldown Evasion - Dodges all White Damage (Melee/Ranged) for a few seconds
The Marauder cooldown should mimic one of the above so that they are still killable just like everyonebody else. As it stands now, you can beat a marauder 1v1 by LOSing during their defensive cooldowns and or CCing them during it. However, a team of say 6marauders and 2healers vs 6ranged and 2healers will present a significant problem due to the 20% healing reduction, multiple defensive cooldowns, and everytime they vanish, your target becomes another marauder with the same defensive cooldowns up, and they can interrupt and lockout ranged classes from doing their damage. Obviously, 6 of any class will be hard to go against, but especially classes with multiple defensive cooldowns to delay death. 6marauders on a team might be an extreme case, but I imagine seeing 3-4 on many teams.
I do believe that making some of these changes will not drop your marauder subscription numbers and should prevent a larger group of subscribers from canceling their subscriptions from Marauder QQ.
I don't have alot of time so I'll make this quick
Your examples are irrelevant
both those classes are stealth which is WHY they don't have an ability like UR
gasp!
- Reduce All Damage Taken -AND- Healing Received by 99%
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Fair enough, no one is arguing pre 1.2 healing wasn't a bit over the top. Especially Sages.
However, all that needed to be done is adjust it a bit and tone it down slightly. Not butcher it completely into the disaster we have now. Don't you think a healer should be able to prevent a single DPS from capping and survive it? Perhaps two for a limited period of time be using all CC, utility, heals, LOS?
That's just it, I don't think they butchered changes to healing. I just think the skill cap got raised and entry level players are feeling the bite (possibly some players from pre 1.2 are also feeling it because they are now vulnerable like the rest of the classes)
Pre 1.2 anyone who rolled a healer in a WZ just cackled at the nerfbats that were swung at them. Pretty much the only class my sage ever worried about was a stun locking operative (and only if they rotated their stuns correctly)
Expertise and TTK are what need tweaking, once that has been adjusted it will appear to the masses to be as viable as ever.
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I have a level 50 Shadow and all they can really do in Huttball is stun them over the fire or try to rush the ball nothing big like a Knight or Sage but what is the purpose of a Shadow in Huttball?
ummm come again?
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This is an open letter to the "healers are fine" crowd:
I will acknowledge that the trinity model of healers being able to heal through multiple dps is frustrating for dps players (especially pick up groups.) This model is characterized by healing acting as a force multiplier and dps being simply force additive. It lends itself to pug scenarios where the matchmaker is determining the % chance of success before the match starts. Killing healers in this model requires a coordinated team capable of using interrupts and cc to lock down healers. Important to note: While healing through dps to keep themselves alive a healer has 0 dps and cannot contribute to success by an other means besides tanking damage from focus fire.
Despite this, games with this model still almost always have dps as the most popular role in pvp and organized teams do not stack 50% healers or anything of the sort. These games can be frustrating but are not "imbalanced" at the highest levels of play. At the lower levels of play killing healers can be nearly impossible due to lack of proficiency with interrupts and inability to utilize CC/burst to prevent cross-healing(which means two healers can stay alive forever.)
SWTOR chose to balance the game based on the lower levels of play. Healers can be bursted down by one DD character and here are the consequences:
1.) Healing without a pocket tank is ineffective and more importantly not fun.
If healing is not a force multiplier in and of itself what is its purpose? If you can only cancel out the damage of one dps attacking you (at best without a tank) then simply adding another dps instead of the healer is just as effective if not more.
2.) The skill requirement for dpsing in pvp has been lowered
PVP is a zerg fest where whoever does the most damage wins. There are games like GW2 where healing can be successfully de-emphasized from the ground up but SWTOR lacks the skill based mechanics to make this viable(this game is a cycle rotation til you win kind of party in pvp). To make matters worse, some dps like marauders have great survivability.
3.) Gutting the healers so unapologetically has led many of us to re-roll, re-spec, or unsub contributing to the zerg fest TTK scenario destroying the game's pvp today.
TLDR; Bioware should not have caved to forum QQ with huge sweeping changes. Healers needed a tweak not a gutting. Incremental changes tested by the live community over time could have delivered a balanced game without slapping healers in the face.
Totally disagree.
My anecdotal evidence is
Good healers are still smashing it.
Cross healing is as viable as ever.
Change is always scary but the pre 1.2 situation of 1 healer v 3 dps facetanking was terrible. Multiple times on my sage I effective stalled the opposing team by presenting myself as unkillable. The frustration was evident in the amount of time spent attempting to kill me while the rest of my team capped the objective. I could effectively tie up 3 dps minimum not counting the 4th player who would come over and tip the heal thru / Dps balance in favour of DPS.
Not to mention if I specced into damage and could roll face with my dps and off heal effectively as well.
Our crutch is gone, we can't solo anymore rather we are more team oriented and in my personal view that change is for the better.
unlimited force was always a big mistake.
nuff said.
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Was until 1.2 where almost all my guild quit. Just rerolled on a much more populated server, and guess what class i'm leveling again ? yep an operative.
I just love it, that's why I do not think I am whining.
(mate, thank you for taking time to read my posts, my english is so terrible, I know it's a big effort, kudos)
Stick to it, i think it's been a crazy year for big name releases atm swtor is facing some stiff competition as the market is inundated. I definitely would encourage a premade. pugs are too random and while you can get some good ones you and I know that it is nothing like playing a good coordinated group on voice comms.
The level of coordination of a good premade overcomes alot of the obstacles you have mentioned for the operative. If your an older gamer I would suggest the guild of the same name (it's a pretty big organisation spanning multiple games) and they use TS3.
What server are you on btw?
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I love it
A) Starwars
B) fast and furious combat
C) distinctive art style that I love
D) interesting WZ (huttball)
E) I'm looking forward to the evolution and introduction of ORVR!
F) All those haters out there just can't keep me down.
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All your advices are nice, I tried everything you said in the last 3 months (and much much more). But in every situation you end up realizing that you probably should let someone else do it, since he'll do it better.
You're missing the point, we are not USELESS, any experienced player with any class will be useful (even more so in pugs). Of course I fare better than a lot of casuals or beginners, but given same skill and experience in HB, you will be better off with any other class. That's all I'm trying to say.
Also as I said in my post, I don't want to get rid of the leaps and pushes, that's the point where i disagree with the OP here, HB is nice as it is. I just don't want to play it with my operative.
Anyway, it's ok if you choose to discard me as just another whiner. I don't care much, we'll see with ranked wz how many operatives will get chosen for a HB.
I can accept a difference in opinion. Do you run in a premade? that's my next question
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I can heal myself : Notice that in the same post you state that it's a team game. So : useless.
Heal the carrier : in the mid okay; but not after the first fire obstacle. After that it's bump, rope, leap, push and bye bye operative see you in 30 s when you get out of the pit. (If you get out of the pit). At least a sorc can sprint through, or he can bump others himself.
Stealth and wait in the end zone : This simply takes too much time. If you're concealment spec and can vanish more often, it may be ok. But You would spend too much time trying to find the right opportunity, because of all the respawns and the ranged classes that defend on the ramps taking high ground. If you're healer spec'd, it's uselss, you will be more useful healing teamates and the CD on vanish is too high to be able to go unnoticed for a long time. And again an assassin will fill this role much more effectively since he has more tools.
So you're saying you can do X, Y AND Z, while in fact we can do X OR (exclusive) Y/2 OR Z/2.
(on a side note try not to be so condescendant, you don't know the people behind the computer, i've been playing operative since day one, and love my class, it just isn't fit for HB, which it's fine by me, not complaining I still find ways to have fun and will use my reroll for my ranked team in HB, if we get to choose the WZ ofc)
lol no matter how many examples anyone on these forums give you for the viablity of your class you will discount them. I'll try a few more so you can think of ways that they are not viable (see below)
1) FYI healing yourself as the ball carrier is pretty handy.
2) I'm pretty sure flash banging 4 players as they try and run the ball through the fire is pretty handy too.
3) Or stun locking the carrier till your team shows up.
4) Or staying in stealth and stealth mezzing people coming out of the opposing teams spawn allowing your runner an easier way to get to the goal line.
Just because your AC can't leap or force speed doesn't make it less viable. Thinking about your class as limited does
derp
Oh yeah, it's impossible not to be condescending with all the BS flying around these forums. For example see your own post in response to mine shows that perhaps you should take your own advice.
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It's quite funny to see how people try and defend a class that's clearly out of sync with the rest. Doesn't matter how you word it, when a lot of players are suddenly re-rolling a class AND when PvP matches are dominated by the same class.. well it tells you something is wrong.
Of course some classes should be afraid of Marauders, but it's beyond normal balance when you can have 2 or 3 Marauders/Sentinels steamrolling a entire team of players, killing them before you have chance to do anything. Add a decent healer to that setup and you've got a unbeatable team. Countless times I've been in matches where we've been 3 players versus a single Marauder who kills us one by one. I'm clearly stupid because I stay there trying to help my team mates thinking that surely 3 of us will be able to take down this single DPS melee player... only to find myself the last one left standing and having to run away or die myself. The sad thing is I often notice it's not a very good PvP player either, the class is in a state that makes it very forgiving, they can jump in to any fight and survive even if they miss or don't manage their abilities or cool downs very well.
Clearly something is wrong and for the good of the game something needs to be done, isn't it in everyone interest to have a balanced game? Be it adjustment to the class(es) or expertise damage/mitigation etc. The current class balance is ruining the game for a lot of us players who haven't re-rolled and trying to do our best with our chosen class.
I used to love PvP but can hardly make myself login except to do weekly operations with my guild and I'm not the only one who feels the same that's for sure.
Dude your "example" shows exactly why your asking for the impossible.
pro tip: Devs can't balance individual player skill.
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Oh you laughed at the part where they said you could LoS ravage too?
Boy, if you're dumb enough to ravage someone next to a pillar and compare it to a ranged ability I don't really know what to say. But I'm talking about marauders here so it's expected.
I was laughing at all the whiners on the thread. The poster I quoted was quite right in his assertions, the really funny part is unfortunately the majority of players rely on the nerf cycle / crutch instead of getting better.
For example the poster of this thread died omgosh I know! funnily enough it does happen in pvp hes just bummed because pre 1.2 he never had to fear a single player, he would have just healed through the damage and walked to the objective.
The previous sage / sorc self heal situation was ridicoulus pre 1.2 My sage could facetank 3 dps without a knock back or 4 second stun.
but getting back to the original point, i've changed my mind instead of
"Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking when they make threads. The answer to this is frequently "Nothing" or "Very Little".
I believe the more appropriate line is "you can't argue with stupid"
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Snipers do similar damage with Series of Shots, and they can buff it to kingdom come with Engineering/Marksman trees. It's on a 15 second cooldown, cannot be interrupted (due to cover mechanics), can often not be CCd out of (Entrench prevents CC), cannot be ran away from (It's ranged), and Marksman Snipers can use it THREE TIMES IN A ROW. Yeah, you can LoS it. But that works for Ravage too.
Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking when they make threads. The answer to this is frequently "Nothing" or "Very Little".
Thanks for the laughs.
Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking when they make threads. The answer to this is frequently "Nothing" or "Very Little"
I needed it after reading all this drivel.
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Yep, and the devs agree with you, which is why they said they're going to bring them back without sales or repairs.
that's a great idea!
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"know your role", "every one has a utility in huttball"
True statements ... Until you play an operative, at which point they become funny.
Some classes are obviously better and more useful in that WZ.
BUT i don't want any nerf on players abilities, i don't want them to change the way it plays because it's lots of fun ! imho objective pvp is more fun than a simple deathmatch, and that's why I love huttball.
Keep Huttball as is, but give me a way to choose which WZ to queue in. Because I sure don't want to play it on my operative.
ummm you can heal yourself, you can heal the ball carrier and you can stealth and wait in the end zone for an easy pass.
gawd some of you whiners crack me up.
It's a team game you either carry the ball or support the carrier.
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So story time... It's Novare Coast. I am on my way back to south from west where i went to helm a push. out of nowhere a wild sent appears out of stealth. it should be noted that i just used my force speed, and force stun helping west so i can't run away from his ravage, and thanks to the REDICULOUS range of the melee ability i take 2 swings as i am terminator walking away.
i have 1163 expertise so that's 18.17% damage reduction
I have removed all the crap from the log.. the important bits remain unchanged
[21:44:30.250] [@Sent] [@me] [Ravage] [Damage ] (2546* energy )
[21:44:30.251] [@Sent] [@me] [Ravage] Damage ] (387* energy )
[21:44:30.546] [@Sent] [@me] [Ravage] [Damage ] (2541* energy)
[21:44:30.546] [@Sent] [@me] [Ravage] [Damage ] (0 -parry ) (5474) Ravage opening hit.
[21:44:30.846] [@Me] [@Sent] [sever Force] [RemoveEffect : Immobilized (Force) ]
[21:44:31.846] [@Me] [@sent] [sever Force (Force)] [Damage ] (252 internal )
[21:44:32.737] [@Sent] [@me] [Ravage ] [Damage ] (5074* energy)
[21:44:32.738] [@Sent] [@me] [Ravage ] [Damage] (652 energy ) (5726) Second hit, i finally get out of range
[21:44:33.043] [@Sent] [@me] [Force Charge ] [ApplyEffect : Immobilized] Yay snared again from his leap
[21:44:34.044] [@Sent] [@me] [Force Charge ] [Damage ] (976 energy )
[21:44:34.888] [@me] [@sent] [sever Force (Force) ] [ Damage ] (252 internal )
[21:44:35.169] [@Sent] [@me] [Force Charge] [RemoveEffect : Immobilized ] )
[21:44:35.595] [@Sent] [@me][Vicious Throw ] [ApplyEffect : Damage ] (3100 energy ) ( 4076) execute+leap
Damage breakdown:
Ravage: 11,200 with only 2 of 3 hits..
Force Charge: 976 no surprise this is a gap closer
Vicious throw: 3100 yay for finishers.
3 globals = 15,276 damage.
You sure are!
feed me your tears MOAR MOAR!
Send two healers to their pylon -> they'll need 6 people for capping.
in PvP
Posted
I like you