This is wrong. Rage tree is worthless early on. You get free crit smash at lvl 26 (not 30) and you max shockwave at 29. Until you can take advantage of smash (it's the smash build duh!) it isn't worth putting points into the rage tree. Don't take this tree for obliterate lol, it hits ok but is used mainly for smash crit buff. As far as rage generation, anyone who thinks the rage tree has less doesn't know how to play the class. The simple explanation is; both specs have the same rage generating abilities. Now, go read the rage tree talent "overpower" (tier2). Pretty much all of your attacks lower CD on enrage (trainable at lvl 22) by 2sec and it costs 2 talent points. To achieve the same rage generation from sunder you must spend 4 talent points AND split them between 2 trees. Plus, it's not like you have to give up the sunder ability to go rage, you just don't put points into it until late game. So this way you have good enrage CD AND regular sunder (more rage generation all around). Also, sunder counts as one of the CD reduction abilities for enrage. I'm not going to argue Vengeance VS Rage. Both are good viable trees for a DPS jugg. However keep in mind that the Vengeance tree is a single target DPS tree, and the rage tree offers much greater AoE ability while still keeping pace with vengeance's single target DPS. How often do you run across single mobs while questing? Not that often. I stick by my first post. Spec tanky early on it will allow you the least down time between groups of mobs since you don't have your healer companion yet (you'll get him at the end of Balmorra). Choose gear with DPS stats, but use a shield generator for your offhand. Once you can make use of smash in the rage tree (lvl29), respec to that and get rid of your shield generator for a focus. I've been playing my jugg since launch. Played all the specs. Trust me, this is the way to go for fast leveling. Hope this clears things up for those looking for good infos

Assuming you are trying to lvl quickly and want to be able to solo the most efficiently... Until lvl 29, do this; http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/10/?build=003222100212120200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 Then at lvl 29, go to fleet and respec to this; http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/10/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003222201010202300000000000000000&ver=20 The points into payback are optional, they can be moved freely somewhere else in the tree if you prefer. Always use your healer companion and you should be able to solo most leveling content in game (with exception to flashpoints and the more difficult heroics) as well as level quickly. It's what I would do if I were going to level a jugg again. Hope this is useful

That's all well and good if its possible. At lvl 55, WITH the 3% ACC buff from the veng tree and 430 ACC rating, im at 99.92% melee chance to hit. Pushing ACC to 100% without that talent is almost impossible until stat budgets get increased from their current maximum (i.e. new gear in future content). Missing hurts your DPS so much more than not having ravage hit 10% harder. I wish it didn't, ravager is a sexy talent and I want points into it too. ATM however its just not the right way to go. Basically, in order to get that ACC you must forego surge rating for it, and at this point in stat budgets no one is hitting the steep DR curve for surge yet, and surge is huge for your DPS in rage spec. Here is a good thread if you want to look at the new DR curves in 2.0 http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1190.html As for zero meter saber throw, just... NO! Its not good. You shouldn't be using this in your rotation as rage. If you are, then you are smashing less often than you could be and that's BAD. Hence why the old 2pc is clutch. Reasons why zero meter saber throw sucks for rage spec; 1. Least rage generation of all rage generating abilities. 2. Only rage generator that uses GCD and does NOT lower CD of obliterate/smash/enrage. (Yes technically regular attack, "assault", generates the least rage. But if you are using this in your rotation then god help you) What I am saying, if it still isn't clear, is that any time you use saber throw in your rotation, you are choosing to "spend" a GCD on an ability that does NOT lower CDs of your BIGGEST DAMAGE COMBO. You smash less often, you do less damage. If doing the rotation correctly you should never run out of rage without the option of either sunder/enrage being up, but you need the OLD 2PC BONUS for this. Plus, like I mentioned in the previous post, the total bonus damage lost from keeping the 2x lvl 63 armorings over the 72s works as follows... 16 less STR per armoring(x2) = 32 total STR lost STR gets buffed 6% from talents and 5% from buffs for a total of 11% more STR. 32 x 0.11 = 3.52 [] 32 + 3.52 = 35.52 So that's now 35.52 STR lost. STR gives +0.2 bonus dmg per point. 35.52 x 0.2 = 7.104 bonus dmg Bonus dmg gets buffed 5% from buffs. 7.104 x 0.05 = 0.3552 [] 7.104 + 0.3552 = 7.4592 So that's roughly 7.5 bonus dmg lost. Now, at 55 and fully geared you are going to be looking at roughly 1000 bonus dmg to melee, and 1500 bonus dmg to force. To put that into perspective; 7.5 bonus dmg at that point is 0.75% (that's 0.0075) of your total melee bonus dmg, and 0.5% (0.005) of your total force bonus damage. So a very tiny amount. So really, it boils down to; +7.5 bonus dmg VS. faster smashes. Which do you think is a better boost to your DPS?(rhetorical question) So since we know that the old 2pc is better and that we don't need zero meter saber throw, it really leaves us no option other than the new mara 2pc because we can't get to the new vindicator 4pc without losing shorter enrage CD and taking that useless saber throw. If you parse on an ops dummy and look at the dmg breakdown, ravage and force scream compete with each other usually based on ravage's CD. So you aren't even really missing any extra dmg from set bonuses either. I can't argue that zero meter throw isn't necessary for vengeance builds. I agree, you should probably go ahead and pick it up when you can in case you want/need to respec. Just hold the armorings and swap them out with the 63s when/if you do. The mara 2pc is definitely better than vindicator 4pc for veng spec, so I would keep this either way, since ravage is a huge percentage of your damage. There are some fights where smash spec is just not very good right now because smash itself can be buggy and not land (i.e. Operator IX's data cores in TFB). Until they fix these types of things (if they ever do) it's a good idea to be ready/willing to respec every once in a while. Hope this helps clear up any misunderstandings Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg" - I know, I lack the ability to make a short post -

No problem! I'm glad someone found it useful Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

damn that's a sexy parse. I really need to get rid of my CR. keep up the murder! Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

Here's my best 5min Ops dummy parse so far, need to get rid of some crit still. Rage spec, reusable stim, all buffs (who doesn't have all the buffs by now?) http://www.torparse.com/a/209880/72/0/Damage+Dealt If you guys are going to link parses they need to be at least 5min long to show sustained DPS, or if not then they need to stop right at the 3min mark. Otherwise its easy to pad with relics/adrenals. Also, lets hope no one is shady enough to cheat by grouping with a mara for BL. You guys should check out statistics page on torparse while you're there, 8M HM Cartel Warlords Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

tell me that with all the bugs surrounding PvP and bolster at the moment that anyone can predict where the dice will fall. Stop nerfing my raids for your broken PvP. Love you. Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

RAGE JUGG SMASH!!! NO MARAUDERS LEFT STANDING!!! (lol the dps potential is there for both classes, just gotta gear right and play "moar smatr") Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

You are stuck with juggernaut bud, however as mentioned you can retrain your skill points at the skill mentor.You don't have to be a tank. Juggs have 2 DPS skill trees and both are fun and viable. I recommend rage Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

Let's start off by saying I think it's great you like the juggernaut class! That's awesome. Its my main, and my favorite class of my 4 level 55's (jugg/mara/sin/op). They are a LOT of fun to play. After reading your post, don't take this the wrong way, but you are doing some things very very wrong my friend No biggie though, games like this one are complicated and there are a lot of factors to take into account when gearing and playing a toon. No one can be expected to pick up a class and know all the ins and outs instantly. I've been playing my jugg for over a year, and I've had months in every different spec. I like to think I know a little bit about the class, and I'm gonna do my best to answer your questions and then some. First lets talk about your relics. The relic you have, the force dmg on proc relic, isn't the right relic for your spec. IF you want a dmg proc relic, you want to take the "Dark Radiance" relic as it does internal dmg. There are 2 reasons for this. One, in your spec all of your DoT's are internal dmg and your skill tree has buffs to internal dmg. Two, the force/tech dmg proc relics can miss, while the internal/elemental dmg proc relics do not. (I haven't delved too deeply into the changes made to mitigation in this regard, so if I'm wrong someone plz point it out) As far as which relics to take, for your spec honestly the "dark radiance" relic might be the best bet. The dmg proc relics rely so heavily on RNG that it is difficult to come up with a good solid number to show how much they will improve your DPS. However, as a good general rule, specs that revolve heavily around DoTs will receive the full benefit of these relics as every tick of dmg is a chance to proc it and there are multiple ticks going off constantly. DO NOT use two of these relics together. It says right there in the tooltip "this rate limit is shared by similar damage dealing effects". When one procs, it would trigger the CD on both relics. I personally prefer power gain relics myself. The new "Serendipitous Assault" relics are very nice, and the math has them averaging higher than any other power gain relic for their level. The "Boundless Ages" relics are also good, If you can get your hands on a pre 2.0 version of the dread guard BA relic it is actually better than the arkanian version. If not, the arkanian BA still rates ok. For your spec, I would think a combo of "Serendipitous Assault"/"Dark Radiance" would most likely work out best. Now let's talk about stats. As a DPS jugg you do not, ever, want to take defensive stats. I have heard some people say to use a shield generator in your offhand and re-mod it with DPS item mods so that you can pop soresu form and have some shield chance, however a shield gets less +force power from it's armoring than a focus/generator does. The only time I could ever see this being a viable thing to do is in PvP. As far as what stats to shoot for there are basically 3 tiers of stats, where the stats in a tier can only be swapped out with each other (for the most part). T1 stats are STR/END. T2 stats are PWR/CRIT. T3 stats are ACC/SURGE/ALACRITY. The exception to this is that due to the itemization of some mods along with ears/implants you can trade some STR for T2 stats depending on which you use. Taking that into account, your simple stat priorities for T1 & T2 are PWR>STR>CRIT>END. Its important to note that at the moment CRIT is really sucking. Most ACs are seeing the best DPS by foregoing all crit rating in favor of power and just making due with the bonus crit from main stat and buffs. But you cant just snap your fingers and have perfectly optimized gear so that priority list should work fine as you gear up. For T3 stats, you need to get your ACC to as close to 100% (melee) as you can, and dump the rest into surge. Do not take any alacrity, it is horrible for warriors. Lastly, rotation. This build revolves around two key mechanics in your rotation, those being bleeds and ravage, with vicious throw coming in as a strong secondary mechanic. It isn't so simple that you can boil it down to a strict priorities list. Where I see a lot of people go wrong in this spec is the way they prioritize ravage/viscous throw into their rotation. Most will want to use them immediately on proc foregoing any other abilities because they hit so hard, but this is bad to do because it doesn't take into account the rate limit on the proc. You can only proc ravage every 9 seconds and vicious throw every 20, so there isn't a huge hurry to use them when they proc. It is most important to keep your bleeds up and use ravage/vicious throw while bleeds are on cooldown. None of your bleed effects last longer than their ability cooldowns, so if shatter/impale/scream are up then they need to be used first. There is one VERY important exception to this rule; you need to think of ravage and vicious throw as having 2 separate states - Proc and Non-proc. Non-proc means exactly that, if for some reason you get unlucky with RNG and don't proc ravage and it comes off of CD naturally then it takes priority over EVERYTHING because its rate limit is up and it could proc at any time and you don't want to waste that proc. The same thing goes for vicious throw once your target is below 30%. Other than that, use sunder as your priority for rage building, and use saber throw/smash as fillers when the rest is on CD. if you are having rage issues make sure you are using enrage as close to on CD as you can without wasting any of the rage. Also, for set bonuses, you are going to need the jugg DPS 2pc for zero meter saber throw in that spec, and I would go for the marauder 2pc (+8% ravage) over the jugg 4pc (+8% force scream) as ravage is a much higher percentage of your overall DPS in your spec. You can do 2 & 2, its perfectly legal. A lot of people are going that route post 2.0. Hope I answered all of your questions bud Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg" -I know, I lack the ability to create a small post-

The classes are balanced pretty well in 2.0 If you are in similar gear and know your class, there is no class that is better than another. There are however boss mechanics that favor certain classes (i.e. a boss that moves around a lot favors ranged DPS because melee have to chase it around), but that works both ways so it isn't a factor in choosing really. In one fight you might suck, but in the next fight you excel. In single target DPS, as in DPS'ing a training dummy, all classes are parsing pretty similar numbers currently. So just pick what you think is cool and make it work. Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

Hey guys! let me tell you a lil bout rage spec... It is AWESOME, that's the first thing you need to know about it! lol, seriously though, it's a great spec for a DPS jugg to choose. After reading a lot of the responses to this thread I don't feel it's been done the proper justice it deserves. I'll address a few issues others in the thread have mentioned, and then give a few of my own thoughts about the spec in late to end game. First, someone mentioned that this spec has less rage generation than vengeance. This is 100% false. You have the exact same rage generation abilities that vengeance has, but with a reduced CD on enrage. This spec is the least rage starved of any. Next, someone else mentioned this spec allows you to smash every 10-12 seconds I think it was. This is also wrong. If using the proper rotation, you should be smashing every 8-9 seconds. This is HUGE for your DPS. Okay, so let me tell you what I see in rage spec post 2.0... (this is for PvE btw) I'll start by saying, if you spec rage you need to be 0/10/36 at lvl 55. A lot of ppl will want points into sunder/ravage from the tank tree. You can not afford to lose out on the ACC from veng tree, and the +6% STR is the better DPS talent. This tree plays very similarly to the pre 2.0 rage spec. But a few minor changes to the tree have vastly changed the prioritization of certain abilities in the rotation. A major one of these is the buff smash provides. When you smash, you get a buff '+9% dmg for 6 seconds' This makes you almost like a carnage mara in the respect that u want your heavy hitters (besides smash obviously) to land during this window, similar to their gore ability. Doing this correctly can significantly boost your DPS. Don't use ravage if it isn't in this buff window! Also, try to avoid building rage with sunder during this window as well. sunder belongs somewhere in the window between smash buffs if you need to use it at all. Plan ahead and use it smartly. If done right, you only have a 2-3 sec window where this buff isn't up. Another thing to look at is the change to Enrage's CD reduction. The way it works now, all of your "assault" abilities not only reduce the CD of obliterate and smash by 1 sec, they reduce the CD of enrage by 2 sec each time you use them. This is HUGE for this spec. You can push enrage off CD so quickly now it's ridiculous. This is how you manage a smash every 8-9 seconds. The only 3 attacks in your rotation you should be using that don't lower this CD are Obliterate/Smash/Ravage. Only use ravage after smash while dmg buffed, only use obliterate for the smash crit buff, use smash ALWAYS when its buffed and ready to go. Do not use zero meter saber throw, you don't need it. If at any time you aren't sure what to use, spam vicious slash to push your CDs. Sunder will also push CDs, so its good to throw into rotations just before smash to push CDs and not waste your enrage stacks, only if u need the rage though. Lastly let me touch on set bonuses. As I mentioned, you don't need zero meter saber throw. I recommend taking the Marauder 2 piece from the new gear (+8% ravage dmg), and keeping the old dread guard 2 piece. I know, it isn't sexy to have 63's in your gear still, but hear me out. The old 2 pc lowers the CD of enrage by 5 secs, the new one is zero meter saber throw. To keep the old 63s vs the new 72s, on a pure stats bias, is a difference of 8.5 bonus dmg in this spec fully buffed. that is nothing. The benefit of an extra 5 sec CD reduction added with your 2 sec reductions from attacks means enrage is up almost always. Hope this helps Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

Hey, that's very interesting! The math doesn't work on that. Should be 1.38 sec GCD with 7.68% Alacrity. 1.5 x 0.0768 = 0.1152 1.5 - 0.1152 = 1.3848 Wonder if its working as intended. Can you confirm your numbers? Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg"

The short answer is - Alacrity is horrible for warriors. Doesn't matter which AC/spec you pick it should be avoided. If that is sufficient for you and you trust it, then you can stop reading. If not, the long answer follows... The long answer - The usefulness of alacrity for any class comes down to one issue, and that issue is resource management. Alacrity speeds up attacks, which leads one to believe "more attacks per second = more damage per second". However, more attacks per second also means faster resource depletion. To balance this, BW added resource regen to the alacrity stat along with it's other changes. This is why it is useless to warriors. Energy/Force/Heat all regen over time, Rage does not. As warriors, we can only generate rage using specific abilities with set CDs. Alacrity does not lower these cooldowns. So what alacrity allows a warrior to do is spend rage faster but not generate it any faster. This is bad. Think of it this way; as a warrior, I can only generate "X" rage per second. I spend this rage to do dmg. If I spend the rage faster I must fill the spaces when I run out of it with low dmg or non rage fueled attacks. While technically this would be a slight increase to dps (I can fit a few regular attacks more after my rotation!) alacrity is not free. Its not worth the trade off of surge/ACC. Plus, any regular attacks (assault) in your rotation should be avoided at all costs anyway. Astellon - The Shadowlands "Your friendly neighborhood rage jugg" EDIT: Just thought of a new question this post might raise for carnage maras. I will attempt to keep it short. "But Astellon," you ask, "If alacrity is so bad for warriors does that mean my carnage spec berserk (+30% alacrity) sucks?!" Not at all! It just serves a very specific purpose. It is for when gore is active. It allows you to fit an extra GCD into the gore effect window.

Hey guys. Fairly competent Jugg DPS here (full 63s, properly optimized, all content cleared). I've played as both DPS specs through most of the content. Just got done messing around with 2.0 on the PTS and i hate to say it, but the changes addressed in this post are the least of our problems. TBH the change to sunder is actaully a buff, just poorly worded in the notes. Sunder as is gives (for most DPS builds) 3 rage with a 5sec CD. New sunder gives (with proper spec, you will end up taking talents that buff it regardless of which tree you prefer) 7 rage with a 12s cooldown. Basically, the math works out to old sunder providing 7.2 rage every 12sec, so the new sunder has a simplified difference of 0.1 less rage every 6 seconds(4xGCD). Not a huge deal. On top of that, the redesign adds much more effeciency to the way your armor debuff works. Sunder no longer stacks for 4%, it is a static 20% that only need be applied every 45 seconds. Since its on a 12 sec cooldown, you can now keep your full armor debuff up on multiple targets at once without having to put too much effort into it as well as freeing up a few GCDs in your rotation. Remember that sunder isnt a heavy hitter, so using it less = good. However, that being said, after playing around on the PTS I have a great number of concerns I feel I need to share with the communtiy about the new direction of stat scaling and changes to the overall stat system. Ill try to be as concise as possible since this post is already turning into a novel (I apologize for that). Let me lay out my experience with game update 2.0 on the PTS. First, lets address the changes to alacrity. These changes screw over the warrior class exclusively. I'll explain why. In a nutshell, alacrity now improves GCD speed and rescource regeneration in addition to its previous uses. Unfortunately as far as I can tell, because of the way rage generation works, warriors do not benefit from the increase to rescource regeneration. We generate static amounts of rage based on using abilities or taking dmg, therefore we have no regen. Alacrity would need to reduce the CDs of these rage generation abilites to keep it's benefit on par with other DPS classes. Basically, this means Alacrity gives us the ability to spend rage faster, but not to generate it faster. NO GOOD. The other huge issue i am having is the new returns on stats. This is what i have seen so far. On PTS at lvl 55 with the new gear (69s) it is not possible to push accuracy to 100% anymore. I was able to push it to ~99.5% by having it in every possible piece of gear (this put me at 648 ACC rating). In order to do this i had to get rid of all alacrity and only have surge on my earpiece for a total of 648 ACC / 72 SURGE / 0 ALAC (this cant be proper itemization, so im gonna assume 100% ACC will no longer be the goal). Yay for missing! I also have a strong feeling that the DoTs tree will become the favorite again as it gives a 3% ACC buff (I specced rage on PTS as its what i am currently running). That covers the Tertiary 2ndaries (confusing term i know), now lets look at the main 2ndaries. Power and Critical. The only good news I have here is that it appears the ratio of bonus damage to power is unchanged. Cirt, however, is TOTALLY nerfed. HARD. Without dropping my power below what it was at lvl 50 (which i shouldnt be doing at lvl 55 right?), i have only been able to push crit rating to ~400. This puts my crit percentage at a whopping 18.15%, and it already appears to be hitting some pretty hard DRs (specualtion in fleet chat on PTS is that crit is at a 20% soft cap at lvl 55) All in all im not impressed with 2.0 I didnt even get into the skill tree changes, and I wont becasuse no one wants this post to go on for another 5 pages. There are significant problems there as well. I reccommend checking the trees out for yourself on the PTS. Im really just scratching the surface and trying to stick to the jugg/guardian theme, but TBH along with the false longevity of weekly caps on comms and just the general lack of REAL new content. This game is looking more and more like a desperate last minute cash grab rather than a solid game that respects its player base. Gonna wait to pass final judgement once the patch is actually out and not just on PTS, but if things dont change for the better I wil most likely be un-subbing, and I doubt I am the only one who feels this way. Sorry for such a long post but I feel it all needed to be said. Here's hoping someone from BW actually reads this. Cheers! - Astellon, The Shadowlands