I was looking at these foci tween ez queues. I never did the math and I do not have the exact stats in front of me...but: WH offhand has 80+ expertise and 60+(?) crit/surge...correct these if off. On phone in a Rush. BH has a ton more power, accuracy, and 40some odd endurance Since I have a TON of surge, smash auto crts, and l am over the 1200 expertise mark anyways (I.e., the DR curve is starting to make expertise less valuable), is the mass power upgrade, the accuracy, and endurance better? My guess is that it is probably a LOT better... 40 endurance is SORT OF equivalent to 2% damage reduction (taking some liberties comparing 20k ish HP vs the dmg reduction of 80 expertise...yes I know they are not equivalent, this does not take healing into the equation, etc....please correct if it seems to make a reasonably LARGE difference). The accuracy is useful..yet so is the crit. However, my crit. rating is "ok" and smash autocrits. I am leaning acc. >crit here (hard for me to say as I am a crit junkie). This seems to leave 80+ expertise that has diminishing retrurns vs a tonof power. Please discuss.

Yes. It is great. Not a RWZ spec but, if you can flip tween heals and dps, you can go 300k+/300k+ in longer games. I have hit 800k many, many times. Don't get me wrong...it is not easy. But when you have all but 1 heal (a great heal for sue), instant ww, d. Field, and spammable fl, ur options are huge. When i go full heals (which I do a lot) I miss the dps...full madness, vice versa. I play 4 different specs on a regular. Each is good in its own way. Each fun in its own way. 21-2-18 is just THE most fun IMO. Play em all...my best advice is respec a few times a week and test, test, test...

Jugg here. I have the battlemasrer shield. I got the columni drop...thought, "sweet...this will help in PVE". The BM is better. Got bh comms enough for the shield...looked at the stats...Bm was realllly reallly close.So close that I bought a different piece that was a much bigger upgrade (bm chest to bh chest) Odd...unless that shield absorption rating was that much better than straight shield rating (bm and bh were mainly different along that stat...IF I remember correctl)y.

Old OP is old...all from Feb.

There are threads at the top of every advanced class forums asking for feedback. They ask for 2 or 3 sentences on how others perceive our class and how you perceive your class. I recommend you post. I just read sorcs, maras, and PTs... Here is what I am seeing (again PvP focused) PTs: love their pyro spec and think is is VERY strong. They have 5 pages. Maras: seem to think that they are overall balanced to VERY strong...not as "convinced" of their class superioity but overall reporting they are good. 4 pages so far. Sorcs:10 pages of a MASSIVELY consistent agreement (not unanimous...but GRAND majority) saying our PvP specs are, comparatively broken with regard to the rest of the community. It was validating to see. I am tired of the people touting we are ok. Certainly I can output in pug WZs...I am always at the top. But beating the worst easily does not mean our class can compete with the best (e.g., rateds) when our class is so poorly balanced right now. I will read snipers, ops, juggs, and (poor) mercs later. I wanted to see what the big boy dps thought about themselves first... Go post...cause a storm that they will see or we will languish much longer... Cheers,

Other's perceptions (pvp): People who I talk to that think sorcs are really good as a class are, generally, not good players. People who I talk to that are very good players think sorcs are the worst healers and the worst dps for a rated team (if player talent of both healers Is roughly equal). Good players I know that have rerolled FotM classes have all said good riddance to the sorc class. My perceptions PvE generally balanced; PvP unbalanced. No burst + no hard survivability + many other classes with one or BOTH of these qualities makes us, for RWZ purposes, impotent...simply due to class construction. For example, we get a bad (i.e., OP) name due to our "showy gimmicks" like knockbacks, extrication, and force speed (all GREAT talents indeed that can win you a game)...BUT for 90+% of most/all games, these gimmicks do NOT make up for our lacking burst and/or survivability.

With regard to 23/7/11 I was in a hurry when I posted that. I have played that spec quite a bit...it may have come off that I did not. Also, I am pretty sure it is supposed to be 22/7/12...whoops! The BIGGEST THING I do not like about it is absenxe of imp Cc ( insta ww is GREAT). That said, I never had force problems (FL effiency was managable easily). That leaves no insta C. Dark...that isn't my fave but you gotta give to get. What I really like about it is I lose almost nothing to my healing and gain the ability to dps reasonably. The healing longeivity is excellent and I keep my imp shield (or does that switch spots on the talent tree....always doing this from my crap phone...if so thhat changes a lot). With regard to a pure heal spec, I DO lose some good things that I appreciate, not the least of which is reviv. However, I make WAY MORE use of FL SPAM and DF as they are MUCH less situatuonal...they ALWAYS ARE APPLICABLE. Again I am a heal first player that is used to classes that can push some DEEPS. I would guess that I am a 65% heal / 35% dps plahyer with this spec... IF you are more DEEPS oriented, I would agree that this spec is less optimal than the 3ish specs up for discussion. I generally agree with Ohm's stances on this. I have played the 20/20 variant(s) the most...I like it more than the 31 madness although I want to go try the 31 pt spec again. The 23/0/18 spec needs a tryout by me still. The one I posted really suits my style. I have hit 250k/250k lots of times (mostly VS) and the BEST PARt is that it is WAY more effective output (I.e.. I can help burst a ball carrier as well as I can heal ours)... It is pretty heal-y oriented... Any other feedback/thoughts are appreciated!

My plan was something like 23/7/11 to allow a healing focus that let me pressure reasonably with FL spam and DF. But I am a healer who likes to dps...not the other way around. Any one test this perchance?

The problem with this guy above are PROBABLY multiple 1. He does not play a class that eats a sorc 1v1 in a straight up fight. U find a sorc that can beat my marauder, then I will give u my acct. I can kill a sorc in 5 sec withh all cds ready...maybe 7. They can't get away. This is also my xp AS a sorc. If you get away, I blame the mara OR that you have every cd and the mara has none...add juggs and ops too. When my jugg and op get to 50, I expect them to own sorcs too. 2. Yes we can OUTPUT. Currently...no doubt. There are AT LEAST two reasons for this. A) our singlr target DPS bursts are all AoE. It makes us look strong BUT as EVERYONE else notes, the dps numbers are misleading. This leads not to the relevancy of metrics but the importance of looking at ALL relevant metrics. Do we complain about subpar dps? NO...I have not seen it anyways. It is about pvp and burst. I will leave healing out of this...much more subtle and convoluted issue...suffice it tosay, double dipping bending is relevant AS IS OUR SUPER SQUISHIENESS. B) People leave us alone in PVP. Dumb. Against premades, I am targetted first. I die...smart. 3. Metrics: BATTERY DYING...fast. If you blindly trust BW...well...I just don't know what to say. Tons of bugs...and they make my mara BETTER?!? I just doont get it Summary, I plan on playing all classes so I want decent balance. I am cool with nerfing our dps. And upping single target burst...they just did the first.

I struggle with melee. Period. There are solutions...mainly PvP control specs. For example, if dps, snag electric bindings\ the blind shield talents in lt....insta Whirlwind is a boon...but you have to play outlast. Dot late...get the timing of your shields PERFECT. Don't break whirlwind with a dot...force them to break one cc then follow up with another...kite..run!!! ...and pray. We can be deadly but not with a jugg.mara on top of us. Gl and I hope others chime in.

16th point in corrupt optional... Pros: Full shield talents (corrupt and lt) Full force bending Wrath (no chain lt...so this has less value but great for crush dark)) Insta whirlwind Spammabe force lt. Deathfield Cons: No Heals beyod resurgence (no AoE or channelled) No DoT/deathfield talents No chain lt. No overload bindings I may have missed something (from memory) The 14 / 11 / 16 is good too..., but going 11 in lt makes me want to go 15 for bindings and Force lt. Procs. Just a lot of tough choices. The one talent I REALLY WANT is overload bindings. So much gimping to get it though while a hybrid! Any thoughts?

I have been healing and playing with some specs. I am wondering if anyone can convince me on some talents: With 21 healing for the Innervate channeled heal (which I am not sure what I would do without), the problem is that 7 into Lt. is necessary for Lt. Barrier (20% inc. shield damage taken)...this also feels like a MUST take. Starting without this 28 would be hard to work around as, primarily, a healer (please argue for/against that if you can)... That leaves 13 points and it gets tricky. You have to decide whether to go up in Lt. further or madness. The two most prime choices seem to be: 1. Conspiring Force (Corruption Tree - affliction slows target 20%) - this is a really great talent for many reasons (+2 to get). I dig this a lot 2. Electric Bindings (LT. tree - Overload makes targets not move for 5 sec) - AMAZING in all pvp (+5 to get beyond Lt. Barrier - 2 of these increase affliction by 6 sec which synergizes with 1. above --- only one "wasted" point) 3. Backlash (+5 further in LT. tree - stun to people close for 5 sec) - 3 points essentially wasted IMO to get it AND I do not get a lot of play from this skill. I thought it would be great but it doesn't pay out as much as I would have thought...too much ranged damage. 1 pt left... OR 12 in madness --- multipurpose to increase damage (and some healing) a LOT mostly thru force lightning, shock talent., death field... 1 left for whatever. I am currently dual specced (Corrupt/LT.) but my damage sucks (when needed)...the cc, however, is amazing with just bindings. I COULD skip backlash and put 6 into madness but skipping Backlash but it feels half-hearted...the 12 in madness seems essential if you tri-spec. I could also go the rest of the way up healing...I have not tried that yet but it seems like the yield would be low. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Storm