Nalissi
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Posts posted by Nalissi
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I used to Raid in a top 300 US Rank Guild; I'm just as goot at PvE as I am at PvP
Log in, create a guild, and congrats you're in the top 300 US Ranked Guilds.
L2P or go back to WoW.
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Yeah. I am, problem? I'm just writing comments on a few threads. I don't plot tactics on how to win the game all day. Ohh the idiocy.
Good thing you have to think of tactics to win then? For most people it's common sense, like why you don't stick your hand into a running blender. Ya, it looks cool at first but have at it my good man.
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Tell that to the devs: http://m.tomshardware.com/news/World-of-Warcraft-SWTOR-Greg-Zeschuk-Mike-Morhaime-MMORPG,12174.html
What now? Bash WoW some more?
Taking principles of WoW is like taking the principles of what WoW stole from many games before it, so again, I stand by my previous statements. WoW created nothing, the only smart thing it did was advertise which got it where it is today. That's what they mean by blizzard "Cracking the market open", granted many other games before it did the same thing long before WoW was out.
Long story short : One was advertised, many others weren't and still thrive to this day even without tricking people into thinking it's god's greatest gift to gamers. (I think I may have threw up a bit in my mouth for putting that last part of the line and having "WoW" in my post.)
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WoW combat is extremely fluid and responsive, you may have beef with pandas, elves or just feeling pro flaming WoW like the cool kids do, but in the end - combat there is clearly superior.
Like alot of other games that it took that from, oh but wait nobody would know the names.
Amirite?
No but seriously, nobody cares about WoW except for people think WoW is "good". WoW didn't create that fluid movement, nor is it better then other games that did it before.
#1 Rule of MMO's : Don't speak of WoW
2nd Rule of MMO's : Once you bring up WoW you already lost the conversation, give up and learn from your mistakes.
3rd Rule of MMO's : WoW should be censored in all forums that are not related to WoW, as it is the equivalent of a nazi but in MMO form. That and it is a constant reminder of why you can't say "wow" anymore without someone thinking of it irl.
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I grant you that, that additional heal debuffs are over the top. However, I see no problem with the perma healdebuff. Sorry to point out Wow again: but just look there what happens if pve healing = pvp healing. It is totally imbalanced.
Let's assume for a second that you would have the same healing capacity as a WoW healer. Now add the tanks' guard ability to the scenario and you would have immortal healers for sure.
Summa summarum: the perma heal debuff is fine and the differentiation between pvp and pve healing is really well-done.
That's my opinion, though. I don't want to tell you how or what to think
No, it is not underpowered.
Why?
1. Healing is still more powerful and efficient than dpsing. This means that the pressure of the dpser will decline at one point (BH's heat, agent's energy etc)
2. If a dpser can fully unload and pressure the healer than use your ccs your team mate has also cc
Seriously, a healer is not supposed to handle 2 guys alone. THAT would be overpowered.
What annoyed me, though, was when my healer was low level, that I had just that crappy long-time cast heal and it felt ages until I got my hot. Things got much better from that point onwards
I'd never expect it to be like WoW healing, as WoW is the epitome of easymode MMO gameplay.
The fact is, that's 30% healing reduction. That in no way becomes "WoW-like" healing. Say if the max HP at the time is 30k, like say WotLK release. You could heal that in 2 heals or just 1 crit heal. Max HP in this is generally around 12k on most characters, even with a crit-heal you won't heal them to full in the blink of an eye.
If DPS isn't reduced in PVP then HPS shouldn't be effected either, instead, making more skill oriented fixes would solve the issue without being a blanket fix.
Why should a healer be punished because of lack of proper play? CC is there, people aren't using it properly.
As I said before, if 5 people are on a target and it isn't dieing you don't deserve the kill to begin with. Fact is, people should learn healers are the key point in winning. That's the bottom line, the other issue is people thinking it's all just the healer and forget about other healing methods.
PVP injections
Medkits
Personal healing abilities
It's always been a known fact that healing items + healing = extremely bad mix. Or at least do it for arena based play because it's to small scale to really run into that issue.
if 1 healer can keep someone up against 5+ people then the healer is rediculusly(sp) overpowered or the 5+ people is only using their free resources attack.Anyway, I really think this -30% debuff is fine as a healer.. I can keep someone up with 2 dpsers on him, i can keep myself up with 2 dpsers on me who aint using cc. I can keep someone up long enough against a zerg to get reinforcements or for my team to have longer time to focus on their team, sure my targets may die but it still gives my team extra time.
and im only level 16 on my sage while it seems most people on my server is 35-50
It's a team game, have people to protect you and you protect them. It ain't wow where you can keep someone up almost forever(random bg mostly) untill you either are out mana or the enemy team pull off a very strong cc chain and having 2 dpsers nuking down their target.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Captain Obvious!
No but seriously, please read the post. I've been healing in many MMOs and of course rolled a healer on here, there is no reason for someone not to die if 3+ people are on them if 1 healer is healing them unless nobody is attacking the healer.
As for your comment... i can keep myself up with 2 dpsers on me who aint using cc. Ding ding ding!
If I had CC-free healing sprees nobody would die, yes, nobody. Infact, it was proven the 3 games I went 400k+ healing because I had 4 people babysit me and drop anyone that tried to target me. Now I admit being pre-rejuv and pre-healing trace definitely made it alot harder, now it is much easier.
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SWTOR Is not competing with WoW when it was first released, it's competing with WoW now. The pvp content present is enough for awhile, but it lacks the developmental depth and variety pve content has. That's fine, I'm just wondering what's in store for the future.
When BW has as much money to throw around as Blizzard let us know? Sorry, but WoW took years to "get" somewhere. I'll admit WoW has better PVE, but as for PVP when compared to eachother... the only mode I hate on this is attack/defense because nubs or the fact you ca get locked in the spawn for 30+ seconds after an objective is completed. Sadly, that is unavoidable in both cases.
So, no, you can't compare a game that was just released to one that only made money because they advertised. Notice how if you tell someone about another game that knows about WoW they tend to have no idea what you're talking about, because games are not known. WoW makes alot of money from people thinking "This is the best out there!" when truthfully it's just better known because of advertisement.
Once swtor picks up and makes more money they can hire more staff members to help release content faster, not to mention try to fit their playerbase's needs.
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WoW PvP is terrible, the only good hardcore PvP out there now is Darkfall and Eve Online.
I cringe at EVE PVP, mostly because it's not really "skill" vs organization. Which in itself is a good thing, but I never managed to die in EVE unless I let myself die. (Wrong ship, warped into a bad situation, didn't line up to warp out to not get insta-popped, etc.) Or the fact it's extremely slow and boring
Darkfall, eh... wasn't bad at all but sadly wouldn't P2P it.
Just wish Ubi didn't shut down Shadowbane.
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My only complaint with Sorcs would be that they heal a bit too much in their DPS spec compared to Mercs and Ops.
Pretty much
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So I'm level 49 and I crit for a whole 2k. Amazing eh? I heard bounty hunters crit for a lot.
Um...
Mind Crush
Mind snap
Boulder or Pebbles, obviously Pebbles does more DPS
Mind Crush anytime it drops
Repeat?
If you don't have your target DoT'ed at all times you're killing yourself in the DPS race. If you don't know what I mean by pebbles and boulder you should be sad. I'm having a blast trolling my buddies by telling them that, then they remember I "renamed" them.
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Ive gone full heal spec (level 39 now) and I do not seem to "turtle" as well as other healers I encounter.
You know the ones, they hunker down and self-heal and it takes 2-3 people to take them out effeciently?
To me it doesnt seem the same, maybe my casting sequence is off?
What are your results?
Sounds like poor CC usage.
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I just hit 50 on my Sage. This will be the 6th time from when I started playing Closed Beta last December.
A. Healing Trace is god mode since you regen force while you cast it.
B. Fully specced Cleanse and HoT cost no force so you can easily use them to keep people topped off without expanding ANY force at all
C. If by some miracle you start loosing force, Healing Trance crits proc a FREE Noble Sacrifice, which then infact means that if you know what you're doing, you'll pretty much NEVER run out of force in PVE
D. If by some chance or skill, you actually wanna multitask and DPS and heal, you Balance/Seer and spec full TK and Presence of Mind. You'll do a TON of damage by spamming TK which then regens 1% of your force per hit which then procs your Presence of Mind and keeps it up pretty much full time, which then means that you can Weaken Mind and Mind Crush insta any time you feel your group is set on heals.
E. If you're bellow 50... do me a favor and shut up. Sage is an amazing class in every department. Healing or DPS or both at the same time.
You should have not even told people that easily, I had a good laugh for 4 hours hearing about 2 people from a guild's vent (That I fought in other games) complaining how healers were "gimp". Until their leader ruined it and made me join their group and told them to spec DPS, then they noticed clearly it was them being derps.
Not to mention... it's PVE. Not like you'll get focused by the AI currently in-game.
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WoW
You just lost, there is no coming back sir. No but seriously, there are alot more games that do it as well if not better, problem is WoW is to well-known and is like the redneck of MMO's. That and since it's well known people act like WoW created/stated everything.
I'll leave it at that, since truth be told WoW didn't really "create" anything that someone else didn't do first.
Edit : Not trolling, yes there is some "skill" involved in higher tier PVP but it's more-so of common sense as anyone can understand WoW. Not to mention WoW's PVP went down hill long ago, it's basicly derp-tastic and full of QQ. I'll say the most fun in PVP was vanilla, now it's just painful to watch when someone tries to show me how good they are in PVP on WoW.
Why? Because I can stick them on another game and they'll most likely either suck or rage-quit.
WoW is forgiving, swtor follows some things WoW has but WoW didn't create these "Things".
UI
W-A-S-D
Global CD
Facing your target to use a skill/spell
However now it's more like I'm trolling WoW players.
So I'll just say, wait and see what happens because it JUST got released. You can't expect a game to be released and be on-par with long term MMO's. It clearly out-preformed WoW's release outside of server que's.
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Because it is a team based game and unlike as in WoW a healer is not supposed to be a raidboss who can tank several people and stay alive while keeping others alive as well.
I have a healer, too and it works just fine. However, you need more than usual to be successful: positioning, clever use of your cc and of course sometimes the help of your comrades (but they need you, too).
Oh, and if you have played WAR...well, just wait and see what healers with a guard can do.
Still doesn't explain why a 30% perma-debuff is required compared to possible debuffs that a player applies onto you.
As someone already stated, nerf damage by 30% and you'll hear about it just as much. People complain about healers because it's "Anti-fun" mostly since they have no idea how to counter it.
If 1 person is tanking 5+ people, they deserve to lose because they are clearly on the wrong target or that target is getting massively focus healed. (Again, meaning they are on the wrong target)
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Yes, but its also the only class that stacked won't give you disadvantage in PvP.
And in TOR 1v1 is some indicator to balance as we have here rock, paper scissors balance type where you have X counters and are countered by Y. Well, not the case with well played sorcs/sages. They are nuclear warheads of RPS system as it stands now.
Ever faced 8 sorcs crosshealing themselves on WZ? I did. Multiple times because it seems its the only class imperium on my server have on character creation. You try to focus down one, rest heals him up and CC the crap out of you all that while still maintaining decent dps.
And believe me, I am last to qq usually, but what I'm seeing on WZ just makes my head explode. I have 6 toons and sage while not being my most powerful DPS out there definitely have most odds of winning all random 1v1s(except well played operatives).
Oh ya I can see it as annoying, no doubt. However, that's because BW hasn't figured out proper counters to healing outside of the -30% healing reduction in que'd PVP. That isn't going to work, obviously, that's more of a lazy fix.
Add possible healing debuffs that can be used to reduce healing done to said target or interupt heal-like powers. Hell, both would be fine. But the passive cut is quite derp.
I ran into a game with 4-5 Sorcs, didn't matter because we CC'ed properly and bursted them down one by one. Maybe they were bad, who knows.
Or another fix could be to nerf healing all around unless speced into it? There are so many other ways to go around this issue rather then a 30% cut.
Now does the 30% cut effect me alot? Not really, I heal like a boss, but I do hate losing 30% of my total heals for no good reason. Not to mention medals for healing in PVP are crap compared to doing DPS/defending. It's like getting the shaft because someone couldn't come to a reasonable fix.
WoW - Had tons of "Reduce heals by % on target" (Also, I know it's a known rule to not bring up WoW on any MMO. Mostly because it's the perfect example of QQ'ing at it's finest. That and being easymode compared to other MMOs)
Shadowbane - Had shadowmantle, blocked all heals to that target and also "Healing Resistance" debuffs that reduced healing to that target. Hell, we had MFing % heals where you'd swear you were gonna get a kill and BAM 50% of that target's HP is back instantly with no chance for you to stop it. However, you couldn't win with just healers.
DCUO - Controler's healing output debuff, heavy MFing healing counter.
Some games are fine balanced to where CC counters healing more then enough
Other games - Generally have perma-CC where you can't move at all so healing has to be OP since once you're CC locked you're done. Or they increased DPS so much that it was pointless to even play a healer because you are better off rolling DPS.
If you look at HPS vs DPS, DPS always wins. This is true in any game, that's why CC is required to be used properly to greatly turn the tide. You aren't going to find that in pugs tho, people blow their CC instantly and QQ on these forums about how OP "x" class is.
I've seen a game where someone was stunned from 4 different people, at the same time, thus instead of getting like a 12-20 seconds of total CC they got about 4.
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I simply LOVE dumb people living in complete denial as well as the ones who think that damage is the only OP indicator.
Now, if both of them are in a single person, like above, hilarity doubles.
Its not about you being able to out DPS pure DPSers, its about you being able to beat them. And of all classes, sage/sorc beats most if well played, commando/merc being 2nd place and rest winning some, loosing some as they should.
Good thing 1v1 is what people are complaining about?...
It's a faction vs faction game, and yes a sorc/sage has a better chance in 1v1 but not when focused. Even then, never heard any QQ from buddies of mine about sage/sorc being OP in most cases because they know how it's played.
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Nerf acid and fire and it's gg? No seriously, it's hutball. Or, they can add a feature so people don't have to que for it. I've been pulled into acid once, it sucked, but after that it never happened again. Fire tho, not so much... but I know fire is much worse.
I do like the Sage's AoE knockback being put into the convo tho...
PbAoE =/= Ranged Pull
One you can run out of range before it finishes and is uncontrolable, the pull however is going to pull your target to you everytime.
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Whoever has mentioned the extreme effect that guard has on healers or the fact that expertise (the pvp stat) reduces this penalty substantially are the heroes of this thread. Without the penalty, and with the addition of guard, taunt, and expertise into the equation, I think you'll find most healers would be perilously strong.
Forget the notions garnered from past experiences in other games of healing being the only way to offset damage, for this is a different game and there are multiple stacking ways to mitigate and prevent it here.
A better option is to provide healing debuffs that would have to be used properly, and expertise increases damage as well so that kinda nulls that subject completely.
It's not hard to fix, give classes possible debuffs to reduce healing done to a target with a decent CD. Hell, the debuff could be 50% but it wouldn't be a "Well I would have kept you alive, but, my healing is reduced by 30% at all times." and more-so of skill based play.
Problem solved, less QQ, and possible heavy countering to healing without being derp-tastic.
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I'm thinking of re-focusing on my Sage, but the few matches I've run with her have been a fiasco. My main problem is targeting friendlies that are in range that need heals. The "target nearest friendly" never seems to get the guy I'm staring at. Clicking on directly on them is too hard, since they are all running around like crazy. Clicking on nameplates I get lots of out of range. I'm too low yet for the aoe heals, maybe those are go to's in pvp?
Beyond that any general tips on rotations, kiting, etc. are appreciated.
ps I read the consular guides and found them really helpful for builds and somewhat rotations.
1.) Cycle through the group hotkeys and pay attention to what name is what hotkey.
2.) Never trust the group information if you notice it's bugged even once, always check HP of all allies near you even if you think they aren't being targeted.
3.) Use your slow on melee characters, at all times.
4.) Save your knockback until it's required. (If you have one, or a knockdown for that matter)
5.) Save your stun until it's required, meaning you better stun a heal or stop someone some beating you senseless. Make it count tho.
6.) If they are channeling an ability, interupt them however you can.
7.*) Line of Sight, Line of Sight, Line of Sight. Keep LoS of your friendlies but avoid being in LoS as much as you can from enemies. I'm guilty of it myself at times, but if you notice it break LoS immediately. Even if it's the last thing I listed, this is the most important tip.
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Warrior PvP
in PvP
I don't want to see any of the ranged classes get nerfed.I'd rather see Warriors get buffed.
But I get the funny feeling BioWare doesn't really care about pvp balance.
The game went through beta with tons of feedback from players - and this is how the game got released.
As the old saying goes "actions speak louder than words"
Warriors are fine, if played properly. Infact, they are the spearhead of your group if they are supported. Nothing, I repeat, nothing changes a game like a good warrior with good support.
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really? can't wait for lvl 50 then, lvl 35 and it takes ages to kill lvl 10's
A.) Get better gear
B.) Change your spec
C.) Make sure your target isn't getting healed, also remember about PVP consumables.
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healing is fine. if it was anymore powerful it would be OP. I usually hit 200k heals and 150k damage in huttball or voidstar that are full length matches.
Healed for 300k and did 100k damage in that Cap and Hold "Titan" mode, the heals were mostly on just three people.
Sorry, but the 30% reduction makes no sense since realisticly that's 30% of your effectiveness down the drain.
Now I know why people QQ, if 2+ healers work together it can get quite annoying. Fact is tho, if you have 1 person on each healer using CC properly while DPS cycles they drop instantly.
I play a healer myself, I watch my target and the enemy healer/DPS at all times.
"Oh look he's going for a heal" and bam, he's interupted for 4 seconds, maybe a stun from my derp-stone, if I'm close I'll even knock them down. If he tries it again I stun him. At that time the target is most likely dead.
It doesn't take much to kill a healer, at all, you have to focus ALL the healers or at least make sure to save CC for both of them. Otherwise you're done.
Hell, I paired with another Sage and we completely locked down the enemy's heals. 2 stuns for 4 seconds, double stones (Forgot what the skill is called, throws a large object from out of the ground) while one of them always stuns in most cases, and 2 possible 4 second interuption/power block.
Or you do what people do to me if I'm the only healer, jump on my *** and don't get distracted and use CC when I'm going for heals rather then opening up with them.
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Sages and Commandos have hugely inflated numbers due to their AoE. In terms of single target DPS, Gunslingers, Scoundrels, Shadows, and Sentinels are a lot scarier...they just have less AoE, so their end of match numbers aren't as impressive. This is coming from the perspective of a healer who has to keep players up through all this crap.
QFT
Granted this still won't get through peoples heads, kinda like "Hey guys, maybe we shouldn't stand so close together since they have a ton of AoE's".
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Bubble (force armor, if I remember correctly)-Helps ball carrier get there safely, helps offset weaker armor for sage, instant to cover low hp so you have time to get a big heal on someone.
AOE Knockback (telekentic something?)- even if it doesn't go 20 feet back, it is still enough to knock of catwalks, and possibly bridges on voidstar.
Force Slow-Slows people down, this is good, try it on a ball runner or even a healer trying to keep up with him
Telekinetic Throw-Decent damaging long ranged attack, can be used on those pesky operatives before they get into range.
Force speed-Getting to objectives to cap/defend much faster.
Feel free to flag this post now too, keep avoiding the issue of your scoreboards showing no problem to sage damage.
Force Shield cannot be used on the carrier, someone hasn't played a Sage I see?
As for the knockback, it's only amazing on huttball. Congrats, the one time it's worth something. Ya, it can be useful in other areas but overall it's pretty poor compared to heavy CC.
Tele-Throw - It's channeled, they can't move. If you ignore a sage, regardless of what kind of sage it is, your team is doing it wrong. Thus, meaning if you just focus them they aren't moving if they wanna keep applying damage.
Force Speed - For 2-3 seconds, mind you there are speed buffs in-game that do it better and even give benefits to their entire group.
Force Slow - Insta slow of awesomesauce, no doubt it is powerful.
However, the only reason a sage deals alot of DPS is when people ignore them. Or, you haven't killed the healer that is healing them as you try to kill them.
As for Sage dealing more damage? I can see them "dealing" more damage because it's easy to Tele-Throw spam over time, as for legit DPS tho I haven't seen a sage realisticly out-DPS or Out-burst another class flat out.
People seem to forget you can have high damage listing at the end of the game even if that player didn't really change the outcome of the game.
Healing reduced by 30% in pvp. WHY!?
in PvP
Posted
I get healing to work, it's just the fact of for every 100 HP that's 30 health I didn't heal. Then 300, then 3000, etc etc. When I average 300k a game I'm missing out on 90k healing, let's see how DPS likes losing out on 30% of their DPS to where they don't kill a target while missing 30% of a heal gets a healer killed or a team member killed.
Then again, MOST of these healers QQing sadly don't CC or attack ever. I try to at least do 1/3rd of my healing as damage since I focus on CC and healing. But always have well over 25 kils.