I think I just took what Kracks said the wrong way. I read it more like he was making a snarky comment on how any trash talk from a pve server is meaningless because of the quality of player. But yeah, I totally get what your saying. Though my pot5 experience, I found that the quality of player only really differs in the top teams. Just as many (if not more) bads trying to trash talk their way to the top on pot5. Generally the top teams are probably better, but only because they get to practice more because Bioware can't get their **** together. (I'll sign your mega server petition) But yeah, I'm here (and I'm sure many are) only because the people we play with are here. I transferred back because my team transferred back. No other reason really. Anyway, I'll recant my earlier statement as I think he didn't mean what I thought he meant.

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You make a great point. People who play on pvp servers are, by default, at least 3x as skilled as anyone who ventures onto a pve server, and should ultimately feel better than them in every way.

Because the only team we could get rating off of was Iolus's team. But they only played us for something like 15 or so games. A small portion of which were on my sage. Everyone else we played gave a very small amount of rating. And Iolus I realize you had a sage on your team, but I'm pretty sure that Assassins aren't fotm either. So we're both 3/4 fotm. And I would argue that not having a fotm dps could hurt your team, but not nearly as much as not have a fotm healer. Either way, we lost a few times on my sage and I got tired of getting beaten by Bioware's lack of balance. I was a liability to my team because your team took advantage of my class to win. (Which I respect and am not trying to say that it wasn't a valid strategy or that you don't deserve your wins) The truth of the matter is, I re-rolled because your team was good. I had no problem winning against almost every other team on the server with my sage, (yes I know this is a pve server, but that's not a brag just a statement) but when it came to a team that really had their **** together I had to change my strategy the same way you guys did when you started tunneling me. I realize you're in defensive mode right now, and I don't take responsibility for anyone's actions on my team but my own (sorry Sylv, Mike, not Fus though. jk), but I'm really not trying to attack you or say that your bad or anything. I just came here to defend myself because as I was only aware of this thread this morning somewhere along the way I got dragged into it. And yeah, part of that defending is me proving that my strategy worked and explaining that I wanted to see if I re-rolled (and your strategy of beating us was eliminated) if we could win. (based on skill or w/e I previously said) Side note: Can we just drop the whole fotm argument? Idk, it seems a little lazy at this point and if one team goes flavor the other team is forced to play flavor if they want to compete on equal ground. That's why I'm sure you'd find almost all of the teams on a competitive pvp server to be fotm. So only teams that are superior in skill and not in comp rise to the top. I really don't think it should be brought up in this argument or any other when referring to someone's skill as a player. Like I said before, if someone re-rolls they are only changing their strategy to benefit the team. It has nothing to do with discrediting the team to be later used as argument ammunition in long drawn out forums wars. In closing: I've said what I needed to say. Iolus I don't have anything against you, and I'm not defending anything that my team has said for the entirety of this entire argument. I just came to hopefully put to rest any confusion on why we're a worse team because I (or Fus) re-rolled. I'm sure I didn't, as people tend to shut everything out as soon as an argument starts, but anyway. I miss seeing you guys in arenas, I hope you come back to play us in the future, and have a good spring break. Or if your not a student tell Dany to have one

Lol I didn't know I was a trackstar. I'll add it to the resume I'd like to present my reason for re-rolling publicly since you seem to think that it justifies your losses. As I said (not publicly mind you) when I re-rolled I simply wanted to beat you based on skill. Not based on your strategy (after losing a few against my sage healer) of tunnel visioning a healing class that frankly isn't built at all for arenas. I played him because I enjoy playing him, but when push comes to shove, I had to step down to your level to be competitive. I'd say the same argument is relevant for Sylvand's mando as he found everyone's strategy was just to tunnel him and interrupt everything he had, rendering him a big liability. Another class that (as of now) isn't built for arenas. Anyway, here's proof for the rest of the server to see that you couldn't beat us based on skill (when I re-rolled to the same healing class you were using, so you can't exactly claim fotm moral superiority or anything) http://imgur.com/NphgFcl Also, don't try to claim that 1 loss as your victory, it was a dc and it wasn't against you. Vps maybe? I think? Anyway, it was fluke. Also, I'd love for you to queue with Cinerous. I'm frankly bored of SW besides when we play ranked which hasn't been for a while at this point. Win or lose, I encourage you and anyone else to play just for the sake of playing. If not I guess I'll just have to continue only playing on raid night and playing Titanfall in the meantime.

Sorry Fus. Sage Arena's Hps Number 1 Number: 2426.45 Toon: Simple http://imgur.com/zuZhuBP

Arenas Sorc/Sage hps Toon: Simple Rank: 1 Number: 1875.84 Link: http://imgur.com/VpjpAe7 Also. I tried to get Anya's hps because they beat me by 10k heals (friggin operatives) But my ss button has been iffy lately so I ended up not getting it.

Arenas Overall Healing Toon Name: Simple Rank # 2 (A little sad that it was so close) Number: 1581406 Link: http://imgur.com/38lzMVr Hps: Rank: 2 Number: 1782.87 Same Link Side note: Why all the hybrid sages? Why...?

Topped it again. Side note: What was happening in the pubpvp channel? Sorc/Sage Overall Healing. Arenas Rank #1 Toon: Simple Link: http://imgur.com/SjMIu7W

Why would you choose raid night for this... lol have fun

Arena Overall Healing (Sorc/Sage) Rank #1 Toon: Simple Link: http://imgur.com/uFUyhQL Just posting this because its better than the one poptart posted. I'm not sure what is impressive in ranked yet.

Section: Sorc/Sage HPS Stuff Toon: Simple Rank: #1 (beating my old record) Number: 2475.68 Link: http://imgur.com/oj7wnRo

Section: Biggest Heal (Sorc/Sage) Name: Simple Rank: #1 Big Heal: 11,507 http://imgur.com/Dqnn0Vm

Section Sage Healing, Overall Healing Class Sage Rank you think the record qualifies for: 1 Toon name Simple Record 2680090 Link to Screenshot http://imgur.com/3XrjaAc Dedicated to Sowanutz

HAHAHA. This is by far the best thing you've ever said. I love it

Honestly my character still isn't min/maxed (mostly out of laziness lol), but I mean min/maxing specifically for a really high heal. Which is different than min/maxing to get the best overall healing output. And I mean fabricated like the heal was done out of combat in pve gear, but I do think it starts to get impressive when people start getting over 9k. Like a competition for who can min/max for biggest heal the best (though I doubt these heals are pulled off in combat). I don't know. I don't want to challenge your biggest heal, but this category (and biggest hit) have been fabricated so much that its really hard to tell who actually got the numbers that they say they got in a legitimate scenario.

I do, but it was fabricated. So I'm not going to post it lol. I don't really care about that category anyway because it's too hard to tell if someone faked it. Then again maybe there is something to be respected in min/maxing specifically to get a really high heal.

Good for you man. This is awesome. I think someone pointed out in an earlier thread that different classes have different strengths so I think this was a great idea. Thanks for putting the time and effort into it. Also thx for using me as an example lol HPS one http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=16aa174&s=6 and my personal highest overall healing (though I'm sure it'll get knocked off the board soon enough) http://tinypic.com/r/e892r7/6

I'm confused. 98% to 44%? Is there actually some sort of unlisted time limit on NC?

Thank you very much Vas. The reason why I originally made this post is because I was so frustrated I didn't record it. Aaaand I hate to point it out as I'm sure a lot of people will be like "oh he's just bragging again" but I wish you would round up. 1690 is pretty close to 1.7k. This entire forum post would be greatly different if I had recorded it, and I regret not doing so.

I didn't argue that a salv healer would fair better against this strategy. You said, "oh it can't be done" and I merely replied in a scenario in which it could. In any case, I'm tired of trading scenarios with you as it is clearly pointless. As I said before, no one can be wrong ever, so if I don't stop this now I'm afraid we will continue to talk in circles. Not to mention how difficult it is argue with someone who is so confident about themself that they actually use absolutes in purely hypothetical scenarios. You think salv healers are a liability, I don't. Agree to disagree. Also, I'm not really interested in conversations where the other person starts resulting in personal attacks and sarcastic remarks. So I think now is a good time to go ahead and leave the conversation. I'm sure you'll be like most and take it as some kind of victory that I'm choosing to discontinue my part of the conversation and I encourage to hold on to your wins. In any case, some of this conversation was actually constructive, the rest was just tiring. Good talking to ya.

According to you its not terribly hard to shut down a sage completely. Why not have ranged pop the bubble that sage has on itself, melee jump in and single target him down, and then continue on to focus down other players having ranged pop any left over bubbles until bubblez returns only to shut him/her down again? I don't think a heavy melee team is the way to go anyway. If your perfect player team implemented this your great bubble stun spec would be way less valuable. Also, I said maybe it is more beneficial against baddies or a heavy melee team composition. No where have I said salvation healing is better all the time in every case ever. I just don't think bubble stun is necessary because its broken and a good enough team wouldn't need it. I just don't like your argument that bubble stun is always better and there's not even a choice as to why. Also, in your perfect theorycraft scenarios that 4% and 2% would yield more healing no? p.s. Soul is making very good points too. The conversation is getting sidetracked and you really haven't backed up your statement that salv healers are just liabilities.

I still feel like in this scenario the sage you are sicking two good dps on is just staring at you blankly while you wail on it. I'm sure you have probably played against plenty of sages that are so nice as to do this for you, but I still feel like this argument is invalid in the case of actual human interaction. Thats what kiting is for and even though sages don't have many defensive cool downs they are arguably the best class for kiting. I love melee as all I have to do is get away from them before they can't hit me anymore. And ranged is even better, because you just duck your head behind a corner and they can't shoot you. I'm sorry you apparently haven't encountered many good sages.

Read the first few words and stopped... Roxxy, I'm sorry that I upset you once. This petty grudge of yours is hardly worth acknowledging and I wish you would stop asserting yourself into every conversation I'm having just to remind me that you don't like me. I get it, and I don't really care at this point. Continuing on to the mostly civil conversation I was having with Vas. I honestly think in a team of perfect players the salvation sage would be the most beneficial. With a team that was coordinated enough to use ranged to pop bubbles have no one stack for smash (or bubble stun) and ultimately counter the two broken specs without using a broken spec themselves, a salvation sage (not that they would need to use salvation as no one is really stacked, I think people forget that the difference between salvation and bubble isn't just the aoe) would put out the most heals and be the most beneficial. However, I don't think that this team exists and I would be very impressed if it did. (really I wouldn't know because I'm not involved in the ranked community but I assume the top teams use broken specs) With that being said, in most lesser teams or playing against a lesser team maybe it is more beneficial to use bubble stun as a crutch. In this pvp community I believe the latter scenario is the case rather than most people being able to play this easy game almost to near perfection, which I think is a huge miscalculation (even in the best of ranked teams). So in the current state of pvp, where no one plays so perfectly that they can easily counter the two broken specs of the game, you probably would be right in some or maybe even more than half of circumstances (as pvp is purely circumstantial) that the version of myself that could probably play bubble stun pretty well (better than any bad that could pull it off) would be more beneficial to the group as other teams aren't very good at countering it and any team I'm on most likely won't be able to counter smashers without it. However, as I have often been able to heal just fine and be more beneficial than a bubble stun any time the other team doesn't stack or doesn't have too many smasher or melee it comes down to player choice. As you said yourself the output between the two specs is too variable to determine which suggests that the only thing left is player choice. Also, just so no one misunderstands, I don't think that people who play broken specs are bad. Some of the best pvpers on the server use these specs, and I don't respect them less for it. My argument is just based on the fact that most bad players could probably pull these specs off (maybe not to the caliber of better player), and a team of perfect players could counter these specs without actually using them.

I completely understand what you are saying, the only problem with your argument is that its completely irrelevant in wzs. I'll admit it's mostly a pride thing as to why I don't play bubble stun. I feel like most monkeys can do it and though I haven't tried it it sounds boring as ****. Maybe, it is ultimately more efficient if you simulated 1 perfect player versus the other perfect player, but unfortunately for your argument this game isn't played by computers, and I'd be willing to bet that I'd be way more valuable on a team than most bubble stunners. So, I'll continue to effectively out heal the bubble stunners, keep my team alive, and do it in a manner that doesn't feel cheap. p.s. If you love theorycrafting so much I would worry more about pve than pvp if I were you. If I really believed that I played video games to have absolutely no say in the outcome of my experience I would quit playing.