Chasidim
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Posts posted by Chasidim
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THIS is the problem, your last line!
You have already stated your a tank, but NO, you also want to be able to burst players down.........
his problem lies not in the last line, its in the first. every team of a certain class will kill one opponent in a matter of seconds.
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tnx for that link ...a question
since they nerf the underplayed classes why dont they nerf powertechs and vanguards also?
their dps output is A LOL and they wear heavy armor!
do they have a stealth fear syndrom?
it's because of the famous gang of operatives analprobing players.
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I'm sorry, but you really don't know anything about how Operatives and Scoundrels work. Trying to DPS on that class is an uphill battle against anyone with any kind of decent gear or game sense.
I assume you're talking about Commandos and Mercenaries when you say "heavies" because Vanguards/Powertechs and Guardians/Juggernauts turn us into a fine paste even if we get the drop on the them. The only time we have a snowball's chance in hell against anyone wearing heavy armor is if we pool every last one of our cooldowns (read: relic, adrenal, double Shoot First, Evasion, and Shield Probe), pray for divine intervention from the RNG god, hope that the other person is wearing greens, and hope they panic. We do not drop "heavies" at all, let alone in five seconds.
I find it sad and insulting that Scoundrels and Operatives are the punching bags of this forum and get blamed for the most ridiculous nonsense when there's nothing we can do that Shadows and Assassins can't do better.
you are so damn right! it's hard to believe, how stupid and uninformed most of the playerbase is, regarding operatives.
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The energy addition doesn't work as you'd think. Our regen levels are decided by percentage, not hard capped numbers. This only gives you an additional one energy per tier, rather than making it harder to get below the first tier due to having five more. =/
^this!
the 4 piece-bonus is a joke. the only thing we can do is stick with the 2 piece-bonus of the rakata set and screw the rest.
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anyone still thought the devs have a clue?
remember: we are in between 5% of a marauder. (lacking the utility, superior defense and sustained damage...)
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Naww.. the whole Huttball Pit floor should open up into an unbeatable rancor's lair. If one of the survivors isn't a Jedi equipped with +2 plot armor, a rock, and 6 ton door within running distance, everyone is boned.
i thought everything you need against a rancor is a rock. or was it the rock??
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someone at the bioware hq rolls a 0-15000 dice.
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This would be an interestign 5 minute activated ability.
"When in possession of the ball, you intentionally throw the ball at an opponents feet causing the ball to be kicked. Inflamed by the blatant lack of respect, Giradda the Hutt unleashes his Galaxy reknown bounty hunter, Foba Bett, to instantly slay the kicker with a thermal detonator. Nearby targets (friends and foes alike) take damage equal to half their health. The ball is reset."
and if anyone is still alive, he throws his translator in the ring who finishes everyone off
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THIS. I play a healer Scoudrel but depending on the map, opposing team composition and my teams composition I can DPS, control, scout, cap/guard nodes, and HEAL LIKE A BEAST, cleanse, sun, snare, DoT etc. I play this class BECAUSE of it's utility. Healing is only part of the show. The OP really missed the ball on this one...
no one says that we can't do all these things. i would guess every good operative does them. but - and that is a big BUT(t): every other class can do these things better than us. every other class has more utility, more sustained damage, more control and adds more to team- and objective-based pvp with less effort.
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I must assume you dont pvp that much.
I get one cc breaker. I dont know what other classes get and it has a cooldown, so if it isnt up vs a geared op youre dead period and that goes for most classes. If it is up you are now fighting him 100 health to 50% health (if your really lucky) then ofc you get knocked down no breaker up goodnight.
what is your point? your cc breaker is not always up. check. operatives are not always out of combat and in stealth. op told of 1on1 situations. and i gave advice what to do in such a situation IF you have your cd ready. it's you guys that all wohoooo panic wohooo, who got the problems. time your cc, knock him back and root him. then either run away to other ppl or heal yourself or los. i'm playing against other ops or scoundrels every day and they don't kill me if they don't get me off guard with no cooldowns left.
I love like we always have a cc breaker up lol then knockback-root then dead not reality because you can also poofBelieve me I had plenty of Ops who couldnt kill me then run away and vanish but the ones that can, do so easily
yeah we can vanish, every 2 minutes (skilled) with either no dots or no ae-damage or stealth-detection nearby. it's always the same. if you die it's the other op-ness, not your own fault. strange, that there are plenty of players that roflstomp operatives. must be the weather.
Do you really think BW just has it out for ops, or do you think your damage is way too much.I think ops truly believe the former but other classes know it is the later
what i think is not the point. but allright, i tell you: bw has no f.ucking clue what this class was, is, and will be. they implemented a stealthy front burst class that relied only on it's damage in the first few seconds. thats how the class was designed. they heard all the qq and "reworked" it aka crippled it's burst on three ends: reduce the stun duration, reduce the armor penetration and reduced the damage of hidden strike. that was tough, but we arranged with the changes, especially because we now had the ability to stun ppl even longer with the hidden strike/debilitate combo.
people continued to freak out because the initial burst was still high and especialy undergeared opponents still died without a chance.
so they nerfed biochem and surge. (not because of the ops but we were heavily affected)
still the good ops managed to perform well, even if we got NOTHING in return. no gap closer, no increased sustained damage, no utility. ops still had to rely on the front burst and nothing else. and with 1.2 bioware still has no clue how this class works and how it should be.
most of the ops i know and read on the forums would gladly trade a big proportion of their initial burst into more utility or sustained damage. bioware doesn't care, because we are in between 5% of marauder damage. which may be true, but totally forgets the superior utility, defense and sustained damage of the marauder.
but anyway. bad players will be bad and ops will kill them in 1.2. and then they complain in the forums.
Sadly imo youre the biggest issue because the burst is enough to kill someone. So BW addressed you 1st. The tankasins and mauraders will get theirs as wellno, we are not their biggest issue, healing in generell and sorcs in special are. you could see that, because bioware did nothing to decrease our initial burst (the hs-nerf doesn't count, because it's not our usual rotation to vanish and -> 2nd hidden strike)
no, they don't nerf our burst, in fact they just nerfed our sustained damage further, with increasing the cd on backstab by 33%. which means lesser backstabs = lesser acid blades = lesser sustained damage.
and again, they did that without any compensation.
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Hey OP,
First, I am impressed you have kept a cool head with people just flaming you as a reply. Thanks for that. I read the whole thread just shaking my head...
Second, I can't help you with your question, but I to can say I get worked to death from some IAs. I am a GS, Sharpshooter, so no major defensive buffs. But I get one coming out of stealth, putting me in stun, get a second big hit, by then I am either stunned again or mezzed, I have trouble remembering, but by the 4th or 5th hit, im done. It makes me mad, I have 3/4 champ gear, rest centurion, but in the end, I don't get 2 shots off. I am trying to L2P against IA, but ****... i don't know what to do. I run around, and bam on my back again, 2 hits to death.
I love Alderaan so I can defend, and I have held my own until help comes for every class but IA.
GL to you in having someone help you or fill you in on play style. I'll be watching!
cc-breaker > knockback + root > dead operative. i really don't know what's the big deal. thousands of players now how to deal with operatives. they know when to break the cc, they know that they are dead meat if hold in range, that they are squishy once there cds are popped.
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The 6k is not possible although as previously mentioned can show up as a combination of 2 attacks simultaneously. They can do 5k rather easily and do
And yes they can take down 16k to 0 in a matter of seconds
Granted not all of them can, hence all the "we can't do that" defenses but the class can do that
so i guess you don't play an operative as you adress us with "they". so how do you come to these statements?
i almost never crit for 5k. and don't tell me i'm doing it wrong as most operatives with bm/rakata-gear will tell you the same!
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I'm not shy about reporting him, I just don't want to report unless I'm sure he is exploiting/hacking. If it is legit this could be one of the reasons back stab is being increased to 12 seconds. And there's not much you can do to outplay someone who can kill you in the space of a 4 second stun, I kid you not.
Again he is extremely well geared, maybe his gear scaling is causing him to become OP. I'm just looking for info so I know what to look for the next time I bump into him - then I can make an informed decision on whether to report him or not.
it has nothing to do with his gear. there are many ops out there with nearly bis-gear and they don't do such things you mention. i am full bm+ 2rakata + rakata mainhand all modded and i happen to crit for 5k+ on very bad geared sorcs/sages w/o bubble.
are you sure, there was no other damage-source than him? maybe a sniper? you never notice when those guys crit you like hell while some other guy fights you.
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Bear in mind this is one of the best geared Operatives on my server, as his guild was the first to actively exploit valor from Ilum - but this guy will 'consistently' take me from 16k health to 0 in a 4 second stun, out of stealth. He'll be fighting away, change targets to me, stun me and then bam I'm dead. And he'll also take down better geared players than me ridiculously quick, there's a full BM Guardian in my guild that drops almost as quick as I do. There's something very fishy about this guy...
Is this why Operatives/Scoudrels are getting a nerf? Or is this guy likely exploiting/hacking?
Even if he is legit, none of the nerfs would likely do anything as he isn't even using hidden strike... I've even tried to approach this person politely as I'm genuinely interested in how he's able to do it, but he just starts acting like a rude teen and won't give anything up.
no, not possible. not after the hiddenstrike/acid blade/stun/surge/stim-nerf.
no operative at this point will crit a guy with 500 expertise for 6k or drop a tank from 100-0 in seconds.
most operatives don't get the 5k crit-medal anymore, and if - only with stims on fresh-50 sorcs.
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Jemand von euch schon nen Operative auf dem Testserver ausprobiert? Ich wüsste wirklich gern mal, ob dieser nerf tatsächlich diese absurden Auswirkungen hat, über die sich hier alle so übel aufregen. Wenn die Auswirkungen so übel sind, dass der Operative in den Kriegsgebieten derart unspielbar wird, wird sicher nochmal angepasst (Hoffe ich zumindest).
Also auf unserem Server gibt es so 2 oder 3 OPs im 50iger Bereich, die trotz allem noch ne sehr gute Figur machen. Gegen Soldaten und (Sch)Attentanks oder Hüter/Juggers sehe ich mit meinem lowy OP bisher noch wenig Chancen, besonders im Zerg ist man eigentlich immer Ziel nummer 1.
Also konzentriere ich mich auf leichtere Kost, wie z.b. Stoffis. Glücklicherweise sind die meisten immer zu blind um zu bemerken, dass ihr heal gerade flöten geht, weil der in scheibchen geschnitten wird.
Also ich lass mich in jedem fall mal überraschen, wie sich der OP nach 1.2 spielen lässt.
es geht überhaupt nicht darum, dass unser schaden etwas runtergeht. das ist den meisten leiderprobten operatives inzwischen ziemlich egal. die leute spielen frustriert weiter, rerollen, speccen auf heal oder quitten ganz. ist also wumpe.
die probleme mit der klasse sind seit monaten bekannt. in unzähligen threads hat die community auf höfliche und sehr konstruktive weise dargestellt, dass es nicht der damage ist, sondern die fehlende utility. die devs interessiert das nicht. ganz im gegenteil, sie sind sogar noch so dreist zu sagen, dass die klasse ok ist, weil sie ja im damage 5% and den marauder heranreicht.
abgesehen davon, dass das immernoch 5 prozent weniger damage als der marauder sind, unterschlagen sie einfach, dass der marauder sowohl was def, utility und sustained damage angeht, dem operative um meilen voraus ist.
die meisten operatives würden herzlich gerne einen teil des frontburst (der ja inzwischen schon ohne kompensation gekrüppelt wurde) hergeben, wenn wir dafür, wie ich_bin richtig sagt, einen knockback oder einen gapcloser bekommen würden. oder irgendeine utility, die uns im gruppenorientierten, objective-basierten pvp einen wert gibt, der den andern klassen vergleichbar ist.
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vergleicht hier ernsthaft irgendwer nen op mit nem sin?
das kann ja nur in die hose gehen.
problem 1: wir haben nur front-end burst. wir können (außer, dass wir re-stealthen bzw. vanishen) unseren burst nicht kontrollieren oder durch combos aufbauen. er ist immer am anfang des kampfes bzw. dann, wenn wir in den kampf einsteigen. das ist ein problem, da es focusschaden extrem schwierig macht.
problem 2: unsere zwei stärksten attacken sind situativ, da sie entweder stealth und/oder eine postionierung hinter dem gegner verlangen. wenn sich ein sin und ein op im stealth begegnen, wer wird wohl die initiative haben? der op, der erst um den gegner herumschleichen muss, oder der sin, der von allen seiten eröffnen kann?
problem 3: wir haben kaum effektive def-cd's. shield probe und dodge sind weit schlechter, als sie klingen. shield probe absorbiert absolut marginalen schaden, dodge lässt uns white-damage vermeiden und reinigt nicht alle dots. unser einzig effektiver def-cd ist cloaking screen, alle 2 minuten und dann nur, wenn wir nicht gedottet sind oder kein flächenschaden in der nähe ist.
problem 4: wir haben keine gap-closer. stealth ist als gap-closer nicht zu verwenden, da es hier um einen gap-closer in combat geht. unser slow hat 10 meter range, wenn ein gegner aus dieser distanz ist, wird es extrem schwierig, ihn einzuholen, wenn er sich gut bewegt.
problem 5: unser mezz hat 10 meter range, der des sins 30. unser stun ist meele range, unser slow ist quasi-melee range. für distanzen über 10 meter haben wir rifle shot und snipe. die eine macht kaum schaden, die andere kostet zu viel energie.
problem 6: wir haben im objective-pvp weniger utility. wir können uns nicht den ball schnappen, durchs feuer sprinten, uns in der gegnerischen endzone für 5 sekunden gegen fast alles immun machen und scoren. genau das können sins. mit ihrer immunität können sie in voidstar oder alderaan lange genug eine base gegen beliebig viele gegner halten, bis reinforcements da sind. wir können das nicht.
vergleich nochmal irgendjemand assassins mit operativs. wir haben genau einen vorteil: unser front-end burst ist stärker. in allem anderen ist uns der sin überlegen. (wer jetzt mit heilung kommt: der sin hat passiv heilung, die ihn keine ressourcen kostet)
damit will ich nicht sagen, dass der operative unspielbar oder besonders schlecht ist, aber warum sollte jemand einen operative einem sin vorziehen, vorausgesetzt beide haben gleichen skill und gleiches gear. richtig, es gibt keinen grund.
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Well, that is the role the class has, if people made an operative with the intention to fight long-sustained dps battles without stealth, then that was THEIR mistake.
I however, roled an assassin hoping for the ganking role; now will be making an operative soon because the class is insanely good.
if you think an op is better than an equal assassin, you are insanely retareded!
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Right cause a knockdown that lasts almost 6 seconds due to crap animations is a reaction time issue. All things considered I would say i did pretty well in that fight considering Combat spec is gimped to start with in 1.1, at least I outlasted anyone else. and no i dont keyboard turn.
bad player is bad. sorry!
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I am in fact the Sent in that video. 2nd kill, i came back with my cds used up just to yell "nerf bat enjoy it while you can" and he 4 shotted me. thankfully he didnt put that in the video.
that explains a lot. man that guy is not good! his movement is clumsy, he turns like a truck, he runs into stealth-detection drones. he is a bad operative owning even worse opponents.
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Carebear land
maybe op made some kind of joke and i am missing the point and stuff.
tell me he isn't serious!
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That is all.
are you kidding? that is your reason for a nerf? a bad operative killing an even worse random?
wow! you must be awesome in pvp!
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op setbonus is pretty lame. longer duration of infiltrate? what the heck! so i stick with the 2-rakata-bonus (which is nice, 15 percent critchance on backstab).
a new setbonus (that actually makes sense or is an improvement) would be a good idea, but i guess they won't do it.
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People who play op that cant take down 6 of the 8 archtypes from 100% to 20% - 0% without that person being able to do anything about it are just bad.
that is just so wrong. no wonder everyone is crying about ops. most people have no f.ucking clue.
! The New and Improved "Shadowstep" Bill for Concealment !
in Scoundrel / Operative
Posted
let's see:
two melee! stuns: check
aoe stun? no, it's a mezz.
a slow: check
a root: only if skilled
a movement speed breaker? what is that supposed to be?
a shield: yeah pretty weak
best aoe: are you kidding? 3 hits. everyone in 5 miles knows, when we cast it. animation delay. 3 hits? hello death from above.
solid range burst: all right, now i am sure, you don't even play an operative. snipe + rifle shot + overload shot (carbine burst) = burst?
vanish: check.