These are things that the modern day MMORPGS are missing too

Have you ever played a game with player built cities? If not, how can you comment on something you dont know, because AGAIN, "huge" resource hogs? You make a sandbox MMORPG and its not a problem, and you make MULTILPE worlds like Star Wars has... And citys that arent kept up with, get deleted..... Its honestly not as hard as you think for developers to do.... If you played Star Wars Galaxies, and ever contributed in a city, and seen how VAST each world was, youd probably have a different outlook on this.

Point 1 - I messed up on my math Point 2- OK again, why are you and a select few others, attacking GHOST TOWNS, and pretending that WoW and SWTOR isnt FILLED with them. In WoW, any "city" you go to level at outside of ORG/SW is more than not, "dead". And there are MANY, MANY outposts and other citys outside of goldshire/Barrens that are completely dead and the only person or people you see their is someone stopping by to grab a quest and they are poof gone again.... You talk as if dead city's are the worst thing since murder. Their was NOTHING wrong with SWG having "empty" city's... Those "citys" were being used by the mayor/people of the city and guild housing. I would know since I lived in two "dead" city's that served MANY purposes for MANY of us players, we just didnt have 10-15 players standing around their unless there was something going on. Point 3- Ok? Your point being that their werent a million players, I never said there was. Point 4- This is why I said, that it would need to be a COMPLETE Overhaul for SWTOR< and mroe than likely would just have to be done for the next Star Wars Game that EA/Lucas/Bioware decide to release Point 5- I never takleda buot when they apologized, I said they did apologize and u just confirmed that, are u trying to argue just to argue?

Do you think they are forgetting about this one, because they are working on a future one?

Again, I played very rarely once the "starships" etc came out and that was only because my friend forced me, you missed out on the REAL star wars galaxies, So yes, your viewpoint is skewed.. And again, YES there were dead towns and citys, but it IS skewed in the sense, that dead towns and citys arent a crime, nor should be looked down upon. Not EVERY city is going to be massly populated, even if its being upkept. Other city's will be more popular than others thats how it is, and for your city in SWG to show up on the map, you needed a shuttleport etc, so you had to be a big city, so sure their might have been ghost towns that wouldnt show up on the map, but its not like it was on your way to anything important. The world was so big, to find a "ghost town" that didnt show up on the map, you would have to either seriously go out of your way to find it, or B find it out of chance, and save the waypoint in your map's to find it again.... And how many dead towns/citys do we have in SWTOR and WoW, the 2 most popular MMORPG from most peoples standards? The only "populated" areas in most cases are the Imperial/Republic fleets and SW/ORG... So again your not making sense, when any town or city you go to MIGHT have 1 player picking up a quest and then running off, in SWG you actually had players conversing at these towns/citys... And to say players were "fleeing" from the game? Yes, players were fleeing at the time it sounds like you were playing, because they were gutting the game at that point.... It doesnt sound at all like you played from release, to the days you could be a jedi at "level 1" Im not even sure if you played the game when there were no levels from the sounds of it.... And yes, getting "buffs" were part of the game, you got buffs when you went on your hunting party's from countless of doctors for usually 20k credits, whats wrong with that? Were you the novice marksman not understanding how the game worked back then? And to your last point, run out and shoot a rat and you could miss is a bad thing? Heaven forbid your so used to a game being so easy that you hit every shot......

You obviously didnt read the original post... I said that it is probably too late to do it in SWTOR, but if it was somehow possible to do a overhaul like WoW did for Cata, then maybe SWTOR could do the same, except it would be a much larger overhaul. Its also why I said its a good idea for SWTOR's NEXT MMORPG.......

Where are you playing SWG at now? One of the spin off servers?

No, Look it up. Star Wars Galaxies. It does not exist anymore, but was WAY ahead of its time.... Lucas Arts created it. As the poster above you said, after the NGE, the game was ruined. Literraly ruined, 200 thousand players unsubbed and left, which is what hes talking about when referring to "ghost towns'. This game however was an MMORPG just like SWTOR... However, It did not have "end game content" like you would see in WoW or SWTOR, and you couldnt queue for PvP, you had to find the PvP. However, to get buffs you had to go to "cantina's" that were filled with real players dancing, and if you sat for maybe 5-10 minutes and watched the real people dance, you would get points. Also these people dancing/entertaining had it as a profession, and would get extra EXP for people watching them. Many did this musician stuff to get the badge next to their profile or would use it as an alt.. One of the coolest things was that when people would inspect you, it would say "mastered Marksman, Mastered Brawler, Mastered Doctor, etc., etc. so you could be re-rolling into a pistoleer, or a rifleman, and you wouldnt do much damage, but you would be a veteran because you had already mastered 10 different things, but you could only be 2 "classes/professions" at a time, and there were literraly like 30 of them. And if you wanted to craft materials, that was your CLASS, it wasnt like you could be a Rifleman AND a doctor. Well you could, but you couldnt be a Rifleman, and be for instance, a crafter and a doctor. You had to choose between two, and if you wanted most damage output, youd pick 2 dps classes. But again, I dont see a problem with ghost towns. If you look at the towns in today's MMORPG's the only populated "towns/citys" are the main ones. For instance with SWTOR its the fleet's and WoW its the 2 main bases. Thats it. Everywhere else is deserted, which is why ive never understood why "ghost towns" is even an argument, or why it would matter to someone. Just dont go to that city if no one being there is a problem for you. The only person with the problem is the mayor of the ghost town. Hes the one suffering, not you.... But I agree with the poster above this qoute, I dont think SWTOR would have the tools to implement this, and I think the people that disagree with Player housing, and Player built citys, are going off of things they might have heard, but have never actually played a game that was successful with it like Star Wars galaxies was... Again, sure you come across random houses, but thats the fun of it. Thats the "reality" of the MMO itself. And how much fun is it, to set up a house close to a city, make it public, then people can come in and check out all your decorations, and if SWTOR or their future MMORPG has it, "vendors" so you can sell things you loot, and armor/weapons you make, at your own price. Its like your own personal buisness, and it worked in Star Wars galaxies tremendously. Rarely did I ever see people using the bazaar over player built shops.

True, however they could implement a new couple of worlds that were as big as Star wars galaxies planets were, but this is also why I titled the thread as SWTOR's Next MMORPG if this one is unable to handle it, because i completely agree that it is probably to late for SWTOR to implement this type of housing system

When did you play? This again, is so far from the truth and skewed..... Dead towns and citys? Have you seen the outposts or "citys" in SWTOR when you get off the imperial fleet? I see 0 players... Have you played WoW? Have you seen any of the major citys outside of SW or Orgrimmar? They are dead, and then look at the small citys around the map, dead, 0 players..... You my friend dont understand the way of things... SWG again, lost over 200,000 players.. let that sink in, in 2 months, they lost 200 thousand players, and the developers publicly apologized... Maybe thats when you started playing, and seen these "ghost towns" because sure, there were some citys that had 1-2 people in them, however its NO different than the 'smaller' citys in any MMORPG...... You had the Main city's that the game started with that were the most populated, but again, having your own player built citys at the time, kept players crafting, building, and spending time in said citys to make them prosperous, considering SWG was a completely player based driven economic system, this makes sense.... Again, Empty Planets? Im on voss now, and theres 25 people on the entire planet? Looks like whatever SWTOR did, it sure worked! Stop kidding yourself. In SWG, I would sometimes see 25 people solely in a player built city, because their were many perks at said city or their were maybe PvP or a raid going on.. And again, you talk about building a certain house somewhere to camp spawns, whats wrong with that? Set up your house next to a place convient to what you are mining??? Your stuck in these ways, of there is only one place to camp for the "good" item... In SWG this was never the case unless you were camping ranchor's and you werent able to build around them. The closest city was quite far away and they made sure of this, which again fixes your problem you speak of... Do you have anything else to falsely claim?

First off, have any of you played Star Wars Galaxies. If you said yes, you are going to completely understand what I am saying to you, because what im saying the next MMORPG needs is what SWTOR offers and what Star Wars Galaxies offered.... Player housing, Guild Housing, Player Built Citys (We need this as players) - Everyone says MMORPG's cant do player built citys because they will become ghost towns, or that the content a MMORPG puts in, cant sustain player built citys because the world will be too big and vast and desolate... These things are ALL UNTRUE, and Star Wars Galaxies proved that 17 years ago when it was released.. Star Wars Galaxies did not fail because of the player built citys or the PvP system it had. It failed when they released the "updated combat system" that was trash, and then they let players become Bounty hunters/Jedi's at level 1. The developers even acknowledged that they lost all of there subs when they changed the game from its prime time, and swore they wish they could go back and undue the changes they made, but by then it was too late... How to stop Mass Player Citys/Housing from over-taking the MMORPG's map - - Constantly MMORPG developers want players coming back, but in reality, they want these players subbed at ALL times... How do you do this? Player built citys and letting this player built city, support a Faction/Guild of its choosing to "protect" them. this would keep players playing hours, upon hours, and would increase world PvP drastically (something every person from any popular MMORPG desires) because you could then have "citys going to war with one-another" and raids taking place and maybe even adding something like "sacking a city"... You could destroy turrets the city builts and NPC's that are walking around. Also these NPC's should either only respawn once every 24hours, or B, you have to put in credits to buy new ones, to re-protect your city. This again, keeps players playing and funneling in credits/time into the game to keep their guilds' city protected and ensures people to continue to log in... Now what happens if a city becomes abandoned? The mayor (leader) of the city, has to keep a "mortgage" to keep the city running and if not paid in a month, the entire city dissapears and is removed from the game, something like a "sandbox" game. That way, over time the world is constantly changing, and you dont see the same NPC every day... Again, the world should be HUGE enough to where YES, there will be areas that are completely deserted, no animals, nothing. That might be the place u want to start building ur city, and as you build the city, the trees get removed etc, and you have to build around the lakes/mountains etc. When you go to put your buildings down, they have to stay in a certain range of the city hall, to be considered "in the city". As you city gets bigger, so does your acres so to speak.... Also, if a player so choses they can set up a house all on there own somewhere in the world, maybe as a shop where they could buy vendors and set them up in there house and put there own materials on there. This again, keeps a player playing, feeling as if he owns his own business..... In Star Wars galaxies, I would actually save peoples homes, because they had the best deals on armors/weapons and I would make the trip all the way out to their home to purchase the armor/weapons. Having these city's also keeps people from all standing around on the Imperial fleet, and forces people to engage in the world, and continue moving around. SURE some citys will be more popular than others, but how great is it, to show up to a city with a few of your buddys, see a couple Imperial or republic players sitting around at said city, and you all start blasting? Too often these MMORPG"s are continuing with the same logic of Level up, play end game content and queue for Warzones.... Thats all fine and dandy, but this same simple end content is what burns players out, time and time again. Onto PvP.... I covered a majority of it above, but for "more" pvp to happen in SWTOR or their next MMORPG, you need to have the player built citys.... Again, a player built city being managed by a few players, and then protected by more players gets other guilds to try to take eachother out. How fun would it be, to set up a "raid" of a city with your guild, and you all go running into the city and take it over? obviously you will only take it over as long as you stay there, or until the city's guild groups up and overthrows you, however, World PvP will never be accomplished in ANY MMORPG until player built citys is implemented to get people out of the developers "untouchable citys/fleets"... We all want a MMORPG to feel as real life as possible while not losing the fantasy of it. This is a great start to it.

Awesome, thanks for the reply my man.. I need to get a guild going... What do you enjoy most for solo content? I like the stronghold idea.. The only thing that saddens me about the whole stronghold thing, is how its a flash point, where in SWG, you could decorate your house, and random people driving by could just stop, and walk in and admire it, if you chose to have it on public.

So im returning to the game after never "really" playing end game content or even reaching max level during any expansion that was out while i was playing... What I am curious on, is what exactly can and what do others do, to keep themselves playing over and over again, without the game getting a stale feeling to it? I have yet to explore many things on SWTOR, however, for me, its hard to even understand how to get from place to place, and to do so, the speeder paths seem to take forever... Has PvP gotten any better? I am a guy whose favorite MMORPG ever, was Star Wars Galaxies... So its not like im not a star wars fan.... I am just curious as to what others do, to keep their interest peaked. Also how is the end game content as of yet? And have jedi's become more viable for late game content or is it still this whole "we only want ranged dps for ops" stuff? TLDR: What do you do for fun in SWTOR to keep you playing every other day

What are MMO's missing these days? When you play a MMO dont you want to feel like your achieving something thats worth something? My biggest problem with a MMO, Is this worth my time? in 2 years am i going to say, Wow what a waste of time? Or Really whats the point of grinding day after day for some mount or some ring/weapon, I want something MORE Whats the common question in every MMO? Everyone that reaches max level says "well what do we do now im done raiding, and PvPing is getting boring, ive rolled too many toons etc" People are tired of the same old crap. Whats one easy fix to all of this? Player housing/Player builty citys. And NO, i am not talking instance based housing, that crap is bull sh*t. Face it, the only people going to your decked out house is friends youve acquired, and even then, they are only going there a few times to check it out. I leveled from 1-65, never had a reason to go to my guilds "stronghold". Why? Theres no one ever there, theres no other players outside my guild there. Theres no battles/no creatures/ theres nothing. Why would i go to a abandoned Guild Stronghold, when i can go to the Imperial fleet which has anything and more i need with also other real people conversating?? Heres what i propose... The games already been made, Therefore you cant just wipe away whats already been made, however in an upcoming expansion, release a new outter rim area, with 5 huge planets, that takes an hour or more "real time" to walk from one end to the other... this is not hard to do, its very easy to flll in a game terrain and areas of mobs. Now the trick is alot of the land needs to be open for.... PLAYER HOUSING/Player CITYS Think of old star wars galaxies. If theres mobs in a location, and you want to build over it, the houses will simply make the mobs disapeear and build over them etc. Anyone who didnt play SWG will think this woudl be complex/ or hard to do so, but if SWG was able to do this with ease 15+ years ago im sure ppl with better techonology and skills today could vastly improve it and easily accomplish it. The outter rim 5 worlds should have just one city on each world. And when i say city i mean a very small city, one that doesnt keep both factions using it as a home base like every other MMO does. Make people go out, build citys, build faction bases. What does this then lead to? More people putting in MORE time More MONEY, More hours into YOUR GAME. this literraly adds more hours to peoples gameplay than any amount of raiding can do. You could finish a raid in 2 days and after that you are asking for more content. Its a cycle that never ends and gets repetitive and BORING. Ive raided for 10+ years and PvPed in MMO's for 10+ years. However this type of feature would have people playing nonstop, Building non stop, conversing non stop. Now When I am talking about player built housing/Player built citys I am not talking about just any max level player being able to buy a house deed and drop it whereever he or she likes. What I am proposing, is you have to acquire a Master City license, which takes Money, Time, And some type of grind to accomplish. This way, there is not a 1,000 players running around making citys. I also propose that only 1 limited per account. This way, You dont have people making multiple citys on multiple servers. Why? To reduce ghost towns. Also, in Order to make a city show up on the map, You have to have at least 30 Residents, Meaning 30 real players acounts with a active deed in your city, That way, you dont just have a random city on the map, that has only 2 buildings in it. ALSO i propose that your city will only show up on the map once you obtain a "shuttle" so you can shuttle to and from your city to other citys on the planet etc. TAKE OUT the speeder wave points for this. No linking of the speeder (WoW gryphon masters) Make it so you either A. have to shuttle to a player built city, or B. drive there yourself. As i said before, before you have your 30 real player residents (Guild) or just (citizens) you will have to do alot of driving there yourself, whereever it is you decide to set up shop. But thats the point, These types of grinds make people play the game for an extra 2-3 hours a days. I then propose in order to keep ghost towns from forming, That you have to keep an annual upkeep cost in terms of credits to keep your city running, Otherwise you will get a notice, Back fee Etc, and eventually lose your entire city over night like it was never there, and be compensated in some way like 1/3 the original cost to originally set up the city. Also allow player built citys to make there citys into "Faction bases". What does this mean? After a certain amount of PvP points the Guild master or City master can purchase defense system to help defend against raiding opposing factions. How awesome would it be as a faction to just completely camp another factions base? Not let them inside there houses, ETC. I have alot more Idea's but this is just a brief description, because i have a LOAD more of ideas that could help SWTOR, but honestly this would put SWTOR on the map for years to come.