You never used to be able to trinket a knockdown at least.

DAoC Rift Darkfall Assuming they fix the GLARING errors in the CC, burst, resolve and other pvp mechanics (expertise, i'm looking at you as a compound advantage rather than a single one like the devs promised), I'd put this one in at No. 2; it still doesn't have the open-world depth and third realm ala DAoC sadly, that was unrivalled variety.

To be clear; speed of kills is about half that compared to the gunnery spec on the medic.

Just baffling that they did this given that healing in PvE is not a viable leveling spec, yet in warfronts / pvp it's always healers in short supply

Seems their solution to the problem is to massively bump the server limits periodically; while it's great that i'm online due to it, that doesn't seem like a feasible long-term solution as it will create performance issues eventually.

This, and what the chap earlier on said about it being fixed for them if they haven't got a clear solution sorted in weeks. Not saying i'll leave, just saying there are very good odds a lot of busy people who dont have time to queue for hours on end will (I mean i'm only moderately busy and on a weeknight I can only sneak in about 2h play usually; if I spend that all in a queue there's not any reason for me to continue to give them money beyond Jan 20th). They need to fix the problem and fast; from a community / player trust angle i'd say that; they have until Friday before moderate damage is done from, new year until serious damage is done, and Jan 20th before they will be in the position of folding servers. Modern life is just too hectic for most; they don't have time for hours of endless queue in a system that kicks them back to the end of the line if inactive, they get a DC or a CTD etc. In fact, thinking about it, realistically if this queue situation persists over Christmas day-boxing day without any improvement I think that's the delineator for me as to whether I continue playing, as if I can barely get online on a holiday, I have 0 chance on a working day.

Actually i'll take this one step further; i'm now pretty certain they are deliberately fiddling the displayed queue length formula to generate visibly lower (but in reality still extremely bad) queues for PR reasons, as i've just been told the same thing by several friends who play on US servers.

The queue times are total ***** as well; they are at least double if not treble or quadruple the listed time (I can understand a margin of error on a 20 minute queue of 100%, fair enough, but on a 1h queue a 400% margin of error? Frankly, sort your selves out, this is the sort of thing I can code as a rank amateur; I expect better from a multi-billion pound company).

Probably looking at 2h+ now before I can get in, which pretty much wipes out my play time for today bar maybe a half hour.

Absolutely infuriated now. 1h 5 min queue to get in this morning (at 11am!) despite it only saying 20m on the server screen for about 250 in the queue. Disconnected within about 10 minutes, loaded back in almost instantly (was back at the server screen within a minute), to find i'm now number 500 on Peragus Mining facility. What halfwif decided not to give a 'grace' period to people who get a DC/PC crash etc to get back in without re-queueing? Even a short one say 5 minutes would be sufficient for most. Frankly, I'm a rank amateur when it comes to server-side stuff, and even I can think of about 5 ways of implementing; i'm sure a multi-billion pound international company COULD and SHOULD have thought of this.

My personal bugbear is not the queues but the clearly faked timer attached to them. Examples follow: Yesterday at 11am: logged on, 1.5h queue, server screen said over 10 minutes (technically correct but misleading as the length can show up to 1h afaik?) Today at 1030: logged on 1h 5 min queue, server screen saying over 20 minutes (again, technically correct but misleading). My own personal suspicion I that they are fiddling the displayed queue time values down substantially to be able to say that the queues aren't that bad. I don't mind queues personally, especially in the first month or two live, what I do object to is either having a queue timer system that is inaccurate or being fiddled with server side to give a better perception.

Sorry to tear apart your post but: Armour: Means very little in PvP when the vast majority of classes have access to non-physical (i.e. armor not a factor) attacks (rdps) or heavyweight armor debuffs (all melee classes afaik?) Ranged DPS - we need to stand still to do more than tickle you with our 'free' ranged. attack. Hence your gap closers should come into play here. Can have serious burst if specced into, but mediocre without spec points. Healing - our heals are incredibly weak, easily set back, and have a long cast time and consume our resource (Ammo). No ammo means no dps (back to the incredibly weak i.e. in a bolstered WF it doesn't even hit for 400 total against cloth). This changes if we spec into it, but then we give up almost all our burst damage. So with all due respect; you're talking total rubbish fella. The class balancing in this game is one of the best i've seen in any MMO so far (Sith Inq/Sage exempt!)

I hate to say it, but so far the game appears to combine all the best features of offline RPG's with almost all the top MMO's. This really is going to do some damage to existing games I suspect! And by that I mean serious sub leakage

Agree. Bioware needs to demonstrate to their playerbase that they understand little regional differences such as timezones! That said, it could be worse; DAoC and WAR used to have frequent server downtimes 0900-1200 PST, which basically buggered an entire evening's worth of play (which for most people who work / have a life is their only playtime). Keep it out of the 1700-2300 GMT frame and you won't have a whiny european playerbase. Keep it out of our 'traditional' playing times entirely (i.e not withing 0900-2300 GMT)and you'll have a very happy playerbase that is onboard with the downtimes. There will always be 1-2 that are inconvenienced by it, but the vast majority of players play in the above indicated time-frames. PS Played up to L5 on Knight and Consular, very cool so far playing the same zone with a very different quest chain! PPS sub GMT for CET if you want to be a pedant!

Redeemed code 3rd Dec, now in queue waiting to get onto a server. Thanks all, great thread

God I remember watching this for the first time like 4-5 years ago. Hilarity, but they got stopped due to Lucasfilm waving a legal stick at them I h.eard

OP, if these forums had a rep. system you'd be getting a lot of it; nicely done, easy to read and updated regularly. Means I can actually get some work done instead of hitting refresh on my phone every 10m

I know hence the humour in my comment. Yeah I know re. the whiners, no country has a monopoly on them sadly; combine the internet disinhibition effect (google it) with teenage hormonal rage and an overinflated sense of entitlement and you get the rage we've seen on the forums. I may not totally be happy with how they handled it, but I possess sufficient decorum not to blow my top at the devs with f this and f that and f you etc. That said, take out the winers, this looks like it has the makings of a good community (I usually judge it by the class and server forums, and the class forums have some interesting debates on atm).

While I am keen to play, I'm not particularly stressed about the diff. between today and tomorrow, but if I were in Bioware's shoes and certain the the hardware would stand up to it (and god help us all come the 20th if it can't) I would aim for all preorders done today just for the satisfaction of watching all the flamers / ragers having to eat humble pie at them honoring the original 5 days for everyone. Hint Hint lads and lasses

Can't tell if joking or taking-life-too-seriously American

Respectfully, it's not about giving inches and taking miles, it's about Bioware's (for a household name developer) very poor PR standards. I mean if with 5 years PR experience I understand clearly the errors they are making, why don't they? Too tired to go into a big rant about difference between perception and reality where it relates to recipient engagement, but while the game and the launch has been smooth and frankly fantastic; the PR side of it really has been weak at best, one might even say anemic or stillborn.

Actually fella, in PR speak everyone reads that AS five days of access. Please recognise that legal and expectation is not the same thing. While the game was awesome in beta, it does feel to me like they have a 2nd rate / PR team working on this, as they are making some incredibly basic errors, stuff that any PR graduate should have had beaten into them at university. I'm not whining, nor am I particularly bothered when I get in; what I am concerned about is whether Bioware understands how to handle it's PR properly, as most MMO's that have gone down the pan early on have done so not because of crippling bugs, not because of lag, but because of poor PR / marketing management. I'd like to be playing this game for the next few years, not the next few months!

I think my post covers this fairly well!

I deal with demanding, passionate customers that want the moon on a stick every day with my business, so i'm about as sympathetic to Stephen Reid et al's plight as you can be. HOWEVER, I have to concur that Bioware is doing themselves no favours by the silence / high five's being exchanged. I completely get the 'underpromise and overdeliver' approach, god knows i've used it myself endlessly; but the key part the of underpromise and overdeliver strategy is that you still need to provide clear, firm deliverable SMART (Specific, Measured etc) objectives to your customer-base and then deliver or better them. They did that with the EGA originally, then there was the announcement of waves rather than queue priority, and the change in EGA dates. Essentially you moved the bar in people's minds, irrespective of the fact that the actual bar has not moved an inch as yet (welcome to mass-PR ladies and gents); therefore you need to re-engage with your playerbase and state clearly what the realistic best, realistic worst, and hopefully deliverable cases are. One thing i'm sure everyone will agree with me on; I the internet disinhibition effect brings out the worst in people, so do everyone a favour before posting folks; walk away, grab a beer/coffee etc, watch a movie, go for a run etc. Basically clear your head, realise it's just a game; a game you desparately want to play sure, but just a game. PS I have no real stake in when EGA actually happens for me (November), as i'm in work trying to close everything up for Christmas until Friday PM anyway! PPS To those complaining re. PVP servers; i'm rolling on one and i'm fine with it. From experience of coming to a few post-launch parties very late (rift 2 weeks in, Aion 3 weeks in and DAoC over a year in) very few high levels will bother ganking you in the first few weeks or months. They are generally way, way too busy trying to gear up to be competitive in PvP; ganking low levels is almost largely the preserve of the bored level cap gear-cap player.