How am I possibly wrong? Group comp was sarcasm obviously. What is the point of a tank getting better items? To be able to take more damage and require less healing. This is important because as you progress raid encounters will hit the tank harder What is the point of a healer getting better items? Better heals to keep the tank/group alive so they don't run out of resources and let people die. As you progress there is more damage so you need to get a better bang for your buck on heals. What is the point of a dps getting better items? Well better items lead to more damage right? Without enrage timers geared dps are simply a novelty. There are some mechanics (such as the prisons in last eternity vault boss) that tests dps in an alternative way, but not every fight can have something like this or it’ll get too repetitive. The bottom line is that the dps needs to fulfill their role. Tanks get better at mitigation to better stay alive as bosses hit harder. Healers heal quicker and more efficiently as more damage is introduced into encounters. And dps become better at dealing damage so they can deal more damage in the allotted time.

Ok lets get rid of enrage timers. New group comp 1 tank 7 healers Raid time = don't expenct to leave anytime soon People don't like enrage becaues it forces dps to be good. Most dps like to derp and be bad and enrage timers hitting isn't a bad mechanic, but one that directly shows that the dps DID NOT DO THEIR JOB.

So essentially you don’t like hard mode enrage timers because it makes the encounter hard for you? Who would of thought that hard mode was “hard”. Min/maxing is a difficult thing to do and is what you need to do when you are doing something that is challenging (aka hard mode). It doesn’t sound like there is a problem with the game. Sounds like there is a problem with you. They designed a difficulty level for you. Its called normal.

So personally I don't know if the hard mode 4 mans are overtuned or not but I don't see how you can't do them with some good gear. Champion gear is extremely easy to obtain. I've been 50 for 10 days and now have 8 champion items. And champion items for the most part have an edge on tier one pve gear. But nonetheless I get what the OP is saying. 4 Man flashes should be where you gear up, not something you need to be geared to do. You can't change the game but my recommendation to you is to start doing pvp dailys. 20 bags a week from pvp dailys/weeklys will go a long way my friend. And I want to adress the enrage timer as a mechanic. People say that it is a lazy mechanic that isn't needed. I personally don't think it should be in every fight but I think it is a needed mechanic. The enrage timer helps to create equal responsibility throughout the raid group. Healers and tanks need to be well geared becaues they are what keeps the fight going. The tank needs to stay up and this is the job of these two roles. If the tank messes up he loses aggro or loses mitigation and dies and this will cause a wipe . If the healers slack off the tank will drop or dps can drop and this will/can cause a wipe. What responsibility do the dps have? Don't stand in circles and do damage. But what if they slack off or horribly mess up their rotation or just auto attack? Without an enrage timer there are no consequences. The only consequence is that the tank and healers pick up the slack. Enrage timers keep the dps accountable for having a pulse and keeping their rotations tight. Instead of having the responsibility and accountability held on the tank/healer battery, dps are now being held accountable. Why is this bad?

To be honest, I have no clue why tier two is dropping in hard mode 4 mans. So you might be frustrated but just be happy that tier two drops in content this easy.

So you think rewards should be skill based? The people with the most skill will gain a higher rank and then unlock new abilities, buffs and skills? So the better players will gain access to new powerful stuff while unskilled players will be stuck with the standard stuff. Help me follow this time line: 1) You want PvP to be skill based 2) You think gear creates an unfair advantage even though it is extremely easy to obtain and everyone has access to it. 3) You suggest creating a system that gives the skilled highly powerful exclusive abilities and skills, while the unskilled or people who don’t start quickly become extremely underpowered. You just solved your problem by giving it steroids and cutting its leash.

It is rather scary how hopeless this thread is. People are too narrow minded to use reason.

I agree with you here actually. I did overlook this because I didn’t really think about it. Best example I can think of is one of the scoundrels in my playgroup. He’s full champ geared and now working on BM (oh joy) And learning how to not get shut down by him has been a fun road. Problem is that people want something material in return for their efforts. Especially in this era of technology that has created the desire for instant gratification. You tell a gaming community to PvP purely for the gameplay and skill progression and most of them are going to respond with something along the lines of “No thanks, I want epic loot right meow”. People who want these even level playing fields, value progression in this sense and want to develop skill and in turn make their gaming experience into an esport type of environment just simply need to look elsewhere. You are a minority but there are vendors who can and will cater to you. This is slightly off topic but my senior has been failing to give me work today so I’ll continue to type. The idea of aesthetic gear has come up a lot. I personally feel that this could be implemented with success but I think warzones are the wrong place to put them. I personally would like to see this type of gear implemented along with an arena system. Now arenas are a very controversial topic but I feel that the main problem in WoW’s implementation (I left WoW right before Wotlk came out so these ideas are coming from what I saw in the BC era) is that they made arena gear too superior to battleground gear. Battlegrounds became the slums of pvp because there was no incentive for a seasoned PvPer to do them other then show off their flashy stats (from arena gear). Say what you will I think there are a lot of people who enjoy arena/deathmatch PvP. I also think that it fits well into this game archetype. I don’t think that it should necessarily become the primary form of PvP or kill the warzones. Arenas are a more elite form of PvP. They are focused more on skill rather than the “grind” that a warzone atmosphere promotes. Because of this I feel arenas could be successfully implemented with a reward system that is directed more towards prestige. Titles, ranks, and yes sexy skins for your already owned PvP gear. The gaming world is evolving and I’m not going to say that it is going to get to the Olympics but video games are rising in popularity. The definition of what a “sport” is is extremely subjective. But all sports and activities have one thing in common; they are all in the entertainment industry. Similarities of this industry include a few facts: 1) People want to watch them 2) There is money involved due to the demand to watch these events. Many esports hold tournaments for large pools of money. This money doesn’t just appear. People pay to become members of online streaming sites that provide footage and shoutcast commentary on games. Also even if footage is free, if the game is being watched by people, there is always money in advertising when there are eyes to see it. So while you might not consider it a “sport” because of your subjective opinion, there is a distinct difference between games and “esports”. To find the difference follow the path paved in green.

I understand this argument but people who complain about pvp gear in swtor are silly imo. Firstly, I believe that a sense of progression is needed in this game to keep people playing and enjoying the game. Guild Wars does not do that and is more skill based with an even stat playing field. It might be a very popular game but it is not on the level of games in the same exact archetype as SWTOR. SWTOR/WoW/insert mmorpg make more money than the games like guild wars. The market is larger for them. To really look at this you need to get rid of your hardcore gamer viewpoint and think like a businessman. These companies are not interested in making hardcore gamers happy. They are interested in money. Why else would you create a company that makes video games? Appealing to the masses is the smarter move with video games. Look at WoW. Lowering raid group numbers, simplifying gear, adding pandas for Christ sake; WoW has increased its subscription count and gained popularity over the years because they are starting to market to a larger group (casual gamers). Hardcore gamers are always going to play, casual gamers need to be enticed. SWTOR’s decision to have a progression based pvp system is a business segment decision. Simple as that. Secondly, I really have a hard time understanding why people are complaining about gear. Champion gear is stupid easy to obtain in this game. This game is designed to net you 20 bags a week simply from dailys/weeklys. If you enjoy doing warzones, you’ll get even more through comms. Give it 2-4 weeks and you will easily be full cent/champ. BM is a different story since it is a long grind to valor 60, but the difference between champion and BM is nothing that should genuinely create a problematic gap. I dinged 50 5 days ago and I have farmed about 25 bags since then acquiring 6 champ items and 1 cent item easily putting me on par with my opponents. Sure people in full champ gear have an edge on me but I play a pretty good sage and still succeed a lot. Everyone who enjoys PvP is going to get to BM and then it becomes a level field. But progression is a driving factor. Thirdly , how can a game have a successful PvP system without gear while allowing for a successful PvE system without the use of PvP gear? Champion gear is honestly the easiest and quickest way to start stepping into normal mode ops. PvP gear is not as good for PvE but it is still useful. And honestly the game would not have successful PvP if they had nothing to show for their effort while PvE content gave gear. You can spend hours doing this and receive a pat on the back or spend hours doing that and get epic gear. PvP just got less popular and now the game’s PvP is dead and you will start complaining about that. So even if they do negate gear upgrades in PvP, this type of system would kill PvP because the population will decrease with no reward while there is another segment in the game that hands out cookies for playing. Fact of the matter is the game is designed like this because it is how these games are designed. If you want a game like guild wars then go play guild wars. But this is a completely different game style and it is set up in this fashion for a reason. If you like to eat apples don’t go to the banana stand and start yelling at the owner. Your just making yourself look like a fool honestly.

No pain should be felt after getting 8 epics after two days at top level. If anything the OP now has a hole in his wall and needs a new computer after reading your post.

Hybrids aren't good at raiding. Figure out the composition you need and bring it. Halfsy characters just hurt a raid group.

Just because a sage is topping the damage meter does not mean they are a healer. And topping the heal meter when there is no dedicated healer is like beating a room full of blind kids at "where's waldo". Try using common sense before you say stupid statements that are not true.

Don't blame the players, blame the bad developers. This wouldn't be happening if Bioware made a healthy pvp environment. But Ilum is pathetic and the random drop system is horrible. Bioware has created an environment that is so bad that they are literally promoting this type of behavior because of lack of options.

The system is set up for a reason. -PvP gear and PVE gear cannot be equal. It is a simple fact that grinding warzones is easier than organizing raids and progressing though pve content. Scheduling and managing a group of people and having everyone cooperate is just simply harder than solo queueing warzones for a month. If the gear was equal nobody would progress in pve and people would just pvp grind and then do the top tier pve content. Having the two be equal would degenerate the game and destroy the concept of pve progression which is one of the strongest elements of why these games are long lasting. Now you might sit back and say "Well I can't raid. I work a full time job and I dont have the time or effort to raid on a strict schedule." This is not a reason to make easy to obtain gear work for all aspects of the game. This is an mmorpg. Say what you will but the foundation of these games is built on progression. It's what creates the addiction and keeps people playing. "I want to hit level cap" Ok now your capped... "I want to get good gear" Ok now what... "I want epic gear and I want to be even better or the best"... Ok now what... Expansion (rinse, wash and repeat). These games are progression based and if you do not like the grind or the competitive time sink elements of the game then the mmo is not for you. If you enjoy a relaxed game you can simply level up characters and enjoy the really strong single player game they've essentially made during the leveling process. But mmos like this are built around making gear and progression important. It is what drives people to keep playing (cough paying). There are a lot of options for competitive games that involve equal gear. Starcraft, league of legends, dota, the mortal combat type fighters, and Im sure there are many many more. I've never played it but I've heard guild wars is much more skill rather than gear dependant and is somewhat similar to the mmorpg style. If you like apples, buy apples. Don't buy a banana and then yell at the guy who sold it to you.

I know this is a side argument going on but I have to comment. Anyone who says that an mmo's pvp and an rts gameplay have similar learning curves and skill ceilings are completely ignorant and wrong. I'm a casual gamer and I embrace that fact. I can fairly easily learn how to manage a single character with a dozen real abilities. Now manage resources while developing a fast and effective macro game. Now control scouts as well as multiple units in micro intensive combat where small changes make the difference. Now adjust your tech strategy to counter what your opponent is building. Now do them all at the same time. APM is a measure of skill because anyone can handle one thing at a time. Handle a dozen things at a time... now thats impressive. RTS's have so many possible scenarios. So many strategies. Counters and counters to counters. These games are complex and require massive knowledge and implementation that needs to happen before you even thought of doing it. My goal isn't too bash mmo pvp and I'm not trying to be an rts fanboy (personally I am retarded at rts's and they are too stressful for my taste) but give respect where its given and don't say things that are so blatently wrong its painful to read. Rts's are literally computerized fast paced chess matches at high levels of competition. Hell universities have taught courses on Starcraft.