painsponge
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Posts posted by painsponge
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What an awful helm for the Imperial Agent. Just. Awful. It is clunky for a class that is designed for stealth and general sneakiness. The current tier sets work for the class. Slim with a little mystique. Why not continue that trend?
Imperial Agent's pve helmet makes them look like space welders... and what's with the traffic light overload on the pvp set, I thought we were suppose to be stealthy.
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First, I did say that I didn't think that it would work well in a rated environment.
Second, The cds being up applies to MM's burst as well.
Third, not nearly all of my attacks crit. I said my explosive probe does 5k on average including the cluster bombs not everything critting etc.
Fourth, the trinket proc happens almost every 1.5 seconds for me as a lethality hybrid.. all of the time ;P
Fifth, the target was cleansing my dots on the ball carrier - which was why i switched to him. I through the debilitate on him so that the stun + the surpise target switch would delay him till my burst was already under way so that his only chance of surviving was to heal himself.
1. Never mentioned a single word on MM burst, why bring it up? Don't be so defensive bud.
2. Maybe not all of your attacks crit, but the majority definitely did.
3. You said so yourself that the trinket proc multiple times in the original post, I merely copied what you've wrote.
I also have the pve rakata trinket from G4 which most likely procced 2-3 times during that.4. Debiliate has a range of 4m, so now your "burst" also requires you to be within melee?
Anyways, you seem to be missing my point. I am not arguing which spec has more burst, nor am I comparing them in a rated environment. I just think your sporadic scenario of a "target swap 20k+ in 3 global" is misleading and not an accurate representation of lethality burst.
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I had expertise adrenal + rakata power relic + target acquired popped. My explosive probe does about 5k dmg on average including the cluster bombs, my takedown hit for 4.3k, my cull does 12-14k on average with everything popped and the dots on him did about 3k i'd assume. I also have the pve rakata trinket from G4 which most likely procced 2-3 times during that.
Ah I did forget to respond to your other comment about someone else helping, which there was a merc from my team using DFA, so thats probably another 3-4k damage to the healer. But either way i'm merely saying it can burst harder then pure mm or mm/eng
And I believe your claim. But you are trying to use an extremely marginalized scenario to present lethality burst. In order to do what you've said,
1. all of your cooldowns have to be up
2. all of your attacks crit
3. multiple pve trinket procs
4. no cleanse on the target
It's just too unreliable to be used as an argument for lethality burst. Since for every one of these "bursts" you are equally susceptible of having the DoTs removed just before Cull, resulting in pitiful damage and leave you w/o energy. With rated on the horizon, I fear the latter will end up to be a more likely scenario.
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how can you have a thought on something that hasnt happened yet
so much fail in this sentence, not sure where to begin...
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Hey at least you guys are looking like Gundam... I mean come on, if only we looked like a Samurai... We look like some idiot that put a casserole on top of our heads and pretended that it's a helmet...
The worst is the smuggler pvp helmet, what the f**k were they thinking when they drew that up?? Not sure if they were going for the antenna head or space beetle
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Couldn't help but agree bud. And the Empire side is quickly turning into mini gundam, and space witches.
I wish the IA armor looks somethin in this effect
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs47/f/2009/200/c/9/Twi__lek_Smuggler_concept_by_greyfoxx082.jpg
but instead we look like space welders overloaded with traffic lights , simply disgusting....
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I was MM, then went Lethality, then EngiLeth, and now back to MM. I switch between MM and Engileth these days.
The problem is, Engileth is just a bit too energy intensive - slightly better with the 5 less energy on Cull which will make a differene, but with the slightly lowered damage they balance out. Lethality just requires too much energy to burst down a well geared target who pops any defensive cooldowns or gets a heal. It is very effective, has amazing AoE, and does a ton of damage, but the main problem is that there is no DoT protection. EngiLeth will be useless in rated WZ because good teams will see the DoTs dispelled far too fast. Even if you reapply C-Dart (which costs alot of energy) your C-nade, the more powerful dot, will be on cooldown, and Cull's damage with only one DoT is not worth the energy.
MM also has some other things going for it. Orbital Strike is easier to use, having a shorter cooldown and cast time. There are less energy problems and the knockback and armor penetration on Ambush is wonderful. Takedown is much stronger (30% more crit damage) and the spec is more mobile then some people give it credit for - you just have to have skill with timing, control abilities, and popping in and out of cover. The damage is burstier on low armor targets, even if the damage against higher armor targets is terrible (something with Lethality does alot better). One of the biggest advantages is that target switching is so easy. If a healer is on 40%, it is hard for Lethality as you have to use alot of energy, and 2 GCDs of ramp up, to burst him down, leaving one of your highest damage and setup abilities on cooldown. Engineering Probe can be used but has a long cooldown, leaving only Series of Shots or Ambush. If you kill one target your damage on the next will take a long time to ramp up, or maybe you won't be able to do it at all. The only ramp up time for MM consists on Shatter Shotting high armor targets. It is incredibly easy to switch targets almost instantly, and unleash a ton of damage on them. As most of your abilities are cast time, and draw energy at the end of the cast, your less likely to waste a cooldown and a ton of energy as you are on Lethality - its pretty common for smart players to time their interupts (if im out of cover) or knockbacks/stuns/CCs for when i start using Cull, meaning i get only 1 tick out of it. Stealthers can cloak it, healers can time their dispells for when you use Cull making it a complete waste of energy, Sorcs and Sins can use force speed to LoS it, etc.
In short, i think that Lethality is great in some ways, but in competitive PvP play and rated warzones, MM or an MM based hybrid will be the only viable option.
Well said, MM snipers' mobility is widely underrated on this forum.
Lets see, Leth's big hitter Cull is a 3sec channel cast, and most would get into cover to use it in order to avoid interrupts. MM's big hitter Ambush requires cover, is a 2.5sec cast, or 1.5sec with snipe crit proc. When it comes to their main burst abilities, the two is nearly identical in the mobility department or even slightly favours the MM.
Snipe can be instant cast every 6 secs, FT can be used outside of cover, everything else such as CD, SoS, FG, TD share the same mechanic. The only two skills that Leth/Eng that arguably give them mobility advantage are IP and CG. But for every CG, a MM can get in 2 instant snipe+ft combos, and possible 3 for each IP. (remember FT does not require cover) So you really have to ask whether the slight mobility gain is worth the huge sacrifice in burst damage.
Honestly, MM's mobility is definitely there. The problem is many players simply don't take advantage of it and prefer to play turret instead.
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Well they bad...
i use evasion when you charge ur ambush + SOS or FT i DOT u, then i LOS you.... what are you gonna do....? i pop in cover for culll.... your snipes ambush dont do much damage... then i explosion probe + LOS then LOS in and out to detonates the probes, honestly your only hope is to kill me while ur 2 second legshot is active.
Honestly MM snipers dont have a chance against good leth/eng snipers.
Honestly, Leth/Eng snipers don't stand a chance against MM snipers, maybe the ones on your servers are bad.... see what I did there
Lol, cover for cull, ever heard of a skill called Diversion or maybe LoS?? I'd like to see you use SoS and EP when you can't even get into cover. Sure you can use evasion, but any good MM sniper will cancel ambush immediate when they see that giant green bubble, or use Flashbang to neglect the effect. This is why I have a feeling that you've never played a proper MM sniper and think of them as sitting ducks hard casting ambush and snipe all day.
MM snipers can LoS just as well, they are capable of instant snipe+ft combo every 6 secs as well as instant casts such as CD, EP, FG. And since ft does not require cover, you are free to reposition after an instant snipe. MM snipers also gain ballistic damper every 6 sec when entering into cover, an often overlooked, but surprisingly effective defensive proc that absorbs 30% incoming damage.
So while your strategy requires LoS to even stand a chance (and lets be honest, LoS is not always available) , MM can be equally effective LoSing and completely wipe the floor with leth on an open field. Imo, it comes out with a slight advantage in overall scenarios. And lets not forget, a single cleanse by a team mate will render you completely worthless, but I guess that's another topic since we are talking about 1 vs 1 situation.
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lol as of right now, i just kill every snipers who play MM, MM/ENG... maybe in Ranked WZ it's gonna change but in ranked WZ's people are gonna DENY MM Snipers so bad.
i am fully bm whith pve gear to mix it up, between 500-650 expertise and i never hit snipe for 4k on a geared sorc with 600+ expertise. same thing for FT.
Sure MM against ungeared people is good and easy. but wait till you play against FULL BM/WH people all the time and laugh are your little snipes that misses.
really, as mm I never have trouble killing leth snipers. I love seeing them too since majority of snipers are leth spec on my server.
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So Sent/Maru get super, uber buffed and Gunslingers/Sniper get a random nerf on their main dps skill (for lethal/hybrid)? What? Why? Most of the other classes got either a small buff, or unchanged for the most part....
We got a huge buff buddy, 20% healing debuff on Shatter Shot, which is a 30m range attack that lasts 9 secs with a 4.5 sec c/d. I would almost say its bordering OP.
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Time takes for a lethality sniper to set up:
1. Corrosive Dart, 1.5sec Global
2. Corrosive Grenade, 1.5sec Global
3* Weakening Blast, 1.5 sec Global (optional)
4. Cull
So the rotation requires 3 globals, or 4.5 sec (3 sec without WB) plus cast time, which I would estimate to be 2-3 sec. Altogether, it would take roughly 8-9 sec (5-6 sec without WB) to set up your optimal damaging rotation.
Time takes for a healer to neglect 90% + of that damage:
Operatives:
1. Toxin Scan, instant cast, 4.5 C/D
Mercs:
1. Cure, instant cast, 4.5 C/D
Granted, corrosive grenade can be applied to multiple targets, but rated teams would likely have multiple healers. On to of that, there is no way for you to keep up with the spamming (tab CD) if they are being quickly cleansed (no energy return from crits). Not to mention you are severely limited by the C/D of your main attacks (12 sec on CG, 9 sec on Cull, 15 on WB), and the predictable rotation. (hmm, CD and CG, wonder what he'll use next...)
Meanwhile, MM can pump out instant snipe + followthrough every 6 secs (which can crit for 3k and 4k+ on clothies respectively), without needing any setup. I can see lethality being a good pug wz build because nobody cleanses dots and can easily top the damage meters. But come 8 men rated, it would not be as effective compare to MM.
One thing I will give lethality over MM is their ability to kill tanks. Maybe that'll be their eventual role comes rated, specialized ball carrier terminators.
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Ok,
I got home and upload my images. I added one or two today from the games I played so far today. Added the ipad 3 website for a time reference. My guildmaster who spoke directly with James Ohlen said sniper damage is top followed by sorcs. Take that as you will because I can't provide further proof. I at first thought snipers were underpowered but now think they fit in just fine for damage. The following images should be 95% marksman spec. Looking back I think I only have one huttball at 500k and the top voidstar was 36k shy of 700k.
Keep in mind all of MY damage is single target damage (with the ocassional orb strike).
Ok, I'll believe you. I'll pass on the personal instruction session though, thanks for the offer.
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People are just bad with snipers in general. I have almost full BM and crank out 400-500k damage on avg for a FULL huttball. My spec is pure MM. Voidstar I'll get over 600k in a very good game where we are stuck at the first door. My highest damage was just shy of 700k. I am hands down the best sniper on the server and know theres a lot more i could do to play better. Cool thing about sniper MM build is almost all the damage is single target! I'm thinking about writing a sniper PVP guide. Our class community has a lot of work to do to get good. I'll submit screenshots if there is demand. I am at work now.
I am sorry, but I'll have to call bs on that unless you post multiple screenshots with time stamp and cursor over your damage (to show us the biggest hits in order to rule out the possibility of a Rifle Shot+FG troll spec) to back up that claim. 400-500k on avg seems quite high for huttball for a pure MM, even if it was full duration.
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Do any of the other Snipers/Gunslingers that are 65+ Valor in Full BM/Rakata Gear with 1700+ Cunning also lol'ing at the kids that are telling us to L2P?
The people claiming to hit targets for 5k+ aren't trolling or lying.. [btw, ArPen is broken; its been tested]. On targets w/out Expertise [i generally use about 8-10%] i Ambush Crit for about 4-4.5k on Full BM targets.. ExplosiveProbe for around 2.5-3k [these are Crits mind you].
I Run Engineerling/Leth for the sole reason that Cull does absurd damage, and Imperial Methodology is pretty nuts as well. If also allows you to use Countermeasures to remove movement impairing effects [which lets you go back into cover if you're rooted].
Snipers/GS main issue is that they have ZERO self peels.
OP hit the nail on the head.
Our class can be replaced by ANY ranged dps class in the game ATM and do better.. while having a lower skill cap.
No one plays Snipers/GS atm.. b/c the class is aweful. I spent MILLIONS of credits and tested for days to Min/Max my Sniper.. and my damage still comes no where close to equally geared Marauders, Powertechs, or Assasins.
Sorcs aren't really an issue.
1v1 our only real issues are Geared Assassins, Merc Healers and Marauders.
We melt Sorcs, DPS Mercs, and Op Healers.. Juggs aren't an issue, and Leth/Engin wreck Marks Snipers.
But we DO have issues.
2 Fixes.. [whoever said give us 45m of range is *********** insane. that WOULD be OP].
-Give us a Vanish .
Maras have a vanish, and a cheat death that they can use anytime they want.
We're SNIPERS and we don't have a Camoflauge ability.. rediculous.
-Give us a portable piece of cover we can throw out [at a 20m range] and roll to it.
That would give as a peel that would allow use to create distance from Melee, or LoS the other Ranged DPSers..
also-- allow Leth to make their DoTs undispellable. If you have an ability [CULL] that is your MAIN SOURCE OF DAMAGE and it doesn't less damage than your other channeled ability w/out DoTS [soS] then theres an issue here.. or give our DoTs a shorter CD...
Last Talent in Madness Roots its target for 2 sec, does a TON of damage and is a NINE SECOND Cd.
Corro Nade is a 15sec cd...
Interro Probe is a 15sec cd...
***.
btw.. we're a RANGED DPS CLASS without a slow.
really.
thats all i have to say about that.
btw. a 30% slow we have tos spec into, in our tree is USELESS.. you know.. when Sorcs have a 50% SLOW on a short CD.. and the melee dps classes have a 50% SLOW on no cd.
Useless.
Not even worth it to spec into.
ps.. if you're in a good group on a server with MOSTLY BMs.. then as a Sniper that is trying to win [since sitting around tunnelvisioning damage is easy and shows that you're bad if you're claiming that kills/damage make a player good] you're going to be behind the Maras, and Powertechs in Damage. Thats just the way it is.
But who cares.
Our root goes through Resolve.. but anything you can do as a Sniper can be done better by a Sorc.
except this..
and only this.
You have BY FAR the most burst in the game.
If i target a healer that is being guarded... i can kill them [if i can interrupt their heal, and no one else is heailng them] by popping ALL of my CDs [trinkets/adrenals] with an ExplosiveProbe [assuming you're specced into imperial Methodology] on them w/ Dart/Nade/InnteroProbe/+Cull/SoS.
Thats like.. seriously 20k+ Damage.
If you don't believe me i'll post a vid.
You're a glass cannon with no peels.
Bioware.
Fix us !
<3 Snipers/GS
Chozette [65 Valor Sniper]
Chozeqah [55 Valor Mara]
Chozenone [45 Valor Sorc]
Iron Citadel <Bad Reputation>
Excellent post! As a Valor 64 Sniper I couldn't agree more. We are much needed of a get away ability, something similar to a marauder's vanish/cheat death, or a sorc's bubble+sprint. As of now, we are basically sitting ducks once a melee jumps in range, it is bad enough that OPs annihilate us when caught without CC breaker. The only reason why I continue to play this class is for the occasional epic crit on sages/sorcs (had a 6.5k ambush crit yesterday). This class has the potential to be great, it is time for Bioware to step up and fix this mess!
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Power is generally not as good as cunning; however, it's close.
Certainly close enough that trading 12 cunning to gain 24 power is a good deal, as Alazar said.
thanks for all the replies! Here is another question, from a strictly dps perspective, would it be worth it to swap the
+61 Cunning
+37 Endurance
+11 Critical Rating
mod with
+45 Cunning
+27 Endurance
+34 Power?
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whats sad is our problems are prob. last on biofail's fix list, being the least played class and all. Imagine if sorcs were in our position, this thread would be sticky by now.
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Anyone know who drops this schematics?
Also, is it better than the 34end/57cunnin/10power mod?
thanks
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glad i am not the only who noticed this ridiculous 'fix'.
bioware's solution to fix pvp frame rates:
lower graphical settings
remove turret firing
what's next, remove npcs? how abt remove spell graphics on ilum altogether, that ought to smooth things over...
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Whats your point? plenty of snipers who wreck faces. If the "logistics" of the class require a talanted player to get the best of it then thats the allure of that class, crap players need not apply and can go off and spam tracer or grav round.
A bad player is a bad player and a good player on a sniper is beyond devastating, I just dont get how people have the arrogance to assume they should be able to play something well, people are different and have different playstyles.
let's compare a sniper ability and a sage/sorc ability:
Telekinetic Throw
Instant
Force: 30
Cooldown: 6s
Range: 10 m
Hurls a volley of debris at the target, dealing 4011 kinetic damage and slowing movement speed by 50%. Standard and weak targets are immobilized for the duration.
and
Series of Shots
Instant
Energy: 20
Cooldown: 15s
Range: 30 m
Unleashes a series of shots that deals 3353 - 3736 weapon damage over the duration. Must be in cover to use.
TT has a build in snare, a lower cool down, and since sorcs/sage have nearly unlimited energy, you can say its pretty much free. OH, did i mention TT does more dmg because being tech, it ignores defence while SoS has to pass every single defensive roll... AND best of all, YOU CANT EVEN USE IT OUTSIDE OF COVER!!!
The only advantage SoS has is its 20 m range advantage, which is fckin laughable considering the 31 pt talent of the MM tree revolves around this ability, which does less dmg and offers less utility than a lvl 6 sorc/sage spell, how pathetic.
How the hell did the developers overlook such glaring imbalance is beyond me, but something need to be done.
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Watch it side by side and see that a Merc can do 3k+ damage every 1.5 seconds while it takes the Sage 3 seconds to match that damage IF he gets a crit on all atatcks on the 3 second channel. Thats not counting the 5k+ instant casts the Merc could have fired off as well while the Sage only has one instant cast that doesnt even come close to 2k.
Nerf Sages!111!!!!
lmao, a sniper's SoS has the same mechanics as the Telekinetic Throw (3sec channel) except it doesn't have a build in slow has a longer cooldown (6secs vs 15 secs). Did i mention it does less dmg?? such class balance failure
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If it was a lie, but nope, people can't seem to understand the possibility of there being multiple issues. Not to mention as any programmer will tell you, isolating a bug can take a LONG time because its not always where you expect. If you want to call people liars without looking at all possibilities though and definition of the english language, that's your call. Doesn't make it the right one though. Should the language been more clear? Without a doubt, but I have more doubts about the people who believe they did nothing.
Don't know why I bother... people just don't understand anything about coding, especially when it gets to a massive level. It really doesn't surprise me anymore that it has one of the highest drop out rates out of any field.
Okay, I will give you that. Lets just pretend the coding was so complicated it would take them a long time to fix despite reports from as early as beta. Now that still does not justify the lying on the patch note.
"Fixed an issue that could prevent players from receiving mission rewards for completing Warzones."
Please enlighten me as how this can be interpreted otherwise, as read by an average gamer. It could be a "wording problem" like you have suggested, but other will classify it as a grade A lie. Regardless, neither is acceptable practice from a respectable company.
And if was written to be purposely misleading, then the problem is even worst than I had originally thought....
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There's not a coder in the world who won't eventually screw up something simple looking.
And they had since beta to fix that screw up. Not only did they not fix it, they actually had to guts to lie in the patch note. To me, that's worst than not fixing the bug, it is approaching the realm of fraud, a huge hit on the company's integrity. Makes you wonder what other unethical practice the company is capable of doing.
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Awww really? Bless.
I have been killing people well before getting Shoot first and well before Flechette round and continued to do so even after, yes the average Op/Scoundrel has become so reliant on Shoot first and Flechette that they forget that we have back blast, dirty kick, pistol whip and sucker punch which puts out some solid dps. I played a Vigil/Def Guardian prior to my Scoundrel so I'm very much used to using more than 3 keys for dps.
And how many Scoundrels actually use vital shot? I never ever see any of them ever use it again because they have been so reliant on flechette and shoot first that they "forget" they can trigger round two with vital shot.
So for someone that keeps there bleeds up, yes that build will be better for me, but why change now when I can have so much fun K.O'ing 1 button spammers and listening to them rage?
That's the standard combo before u get the 31 pt talent. Back Blast -> blaster whip -> vital shot -> sucker punch and finish with a probe/grenade combo. Pretty standard stuff, and I am pretty sure all <32 scoundrel/op have used.
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This analogy is as pretty much saying everyone in this thread paid money to go to work. Listen the 15 bucks you drop per month buys you the game, it doesn't buy you commendations or gear.
Are you guys mentally not stable? Oh my faith in humanity...
Okay, then the time the players have invested into PvPing is what should be "buying" the gears. Except now, it doesn't.
Lethality > MM Sniper - From a diehard MM supporter
in Gunslinger / Sniper
Posted · Edited by painsponge
- You certainly sounded that way, bringing up MM burst CDs when it was never mentioned nor was part of my argument.
- 50% crit still means there is a 50% likelihood that all of your attacks will not crit.
- so you admit your 20k+ burst has multiple RnG requirements?