Huh. To be fair, I was always told that Juggernauts were the better tanks. Still, this is good info. Thanks for the solid replies, though.

Okay, so, as a Sin tank I feel a tad jealous of the relatively superior Endure Pain that Juggernauts get. Endure Pain grants a number of charges that, when the player-character is hit, will heal a significant portion of their health. When used correctly, it can turn the tide of any boss fight, or fully heal a juggernaut tank back to full health from normal trash mobs in non-flashpoint content. It is, to be honest, the single most overpowered defense ability in the game. Now compare this to Overcharge Saber which heals the player-character for 15% of their maximum health, increases Charge damage by 50% and charge trigger chance by 25% and also heals the player for a small amount every time a charge is triggered. Overcharge Saber potentially could do the exact same thing that Endure Pain does, but through triggering Dark Charge. There are two problems with it, however; 1.) the heal is very low, and 2.) the heal can only be triggered every second. Now, Endure Pain is a fantastic defense ability, but Overcharge Saber is an altogether different beast, primarily because it also increases our ability to deal damage for a short time, which admittedly our DPS is the weakest trait of our tanking ability. This makes Overcharge Sabers potential to increase the viability of Sin tanking and make it on par with the preferential Juggernaut tank, while still keeping the complexity that Assassin Darkness tanks are known for. Endure Pain is not time-limited and because of this all of the charges can be used up very, very quickly if used against more than one mob. To be fair, it is what makes attacking a Juggernaut futile, as once those charges are up the Juggernaut is nearly invincible for those 15 charges, or the 15 (or was it 10?) seconds it takes the charges to disappear. Now, I am arguing for one of two things; the Devs can either change Endure Pain to only trigger once per second and increase the time the charges remain on the player-character, and thus remove the imbalance created by Endure Pain not being restricted as other potentially similar powers, or they can alter Dark Charge and remove its time limitation to balance out the two. As an alternative to what Overcharge Saber does now, they could also mirror it after Endure Pain, but with the damage increases still intact, and change Overcharge Saber into a segment of charges that are used up every time a Charge triggers, with different effects for each charge. (Dark Charge could, for instance, be the only one that heals, with different effect(s) for Lightning and Surging charges respectively, such as increased critical chance that decreases every time a crit happens, or increased alacrity. Again, these are just suggestions.) Now, discuss! Does this seem like a fair trade, and which would you prefer? Are there alternatives to the suggestions I made that you would want to see instead? Please be constructive, do not dismiss this outright simply because you do not agree. Explain why you feel it is unnecessary to change this in the name of balance.

That's not what I was talking about. Go back and re-read the initial post. I was talking about a lack of a orange-itemed (moddable/customizable) shield generator for Assassin Tanks. It may be 'level 7' gear, but I can mod it up to level 60 and use the outfit designer to make my character look pretty. Again, I will reiterate, it's just a small slight, one that I'm surprised even exists. It's far cheaper to spend the 8 commendations to get a shield generator from the level 7 vendor than to have to purchase it from the GTN, and it takes less time to get than going through Black Talon. It's not a massive issue, just a small inconsistency.

I haven't verified if Sages have this issue too, so if someone wants to confirm this on one of their Republic Characters, but the Level 7 Equipment Commendation Vendor on the fleet, which sells class-specific moddable gear, does not have a shield generator for Assassin Tanks, only a focus. Both other tank-capable classes (Juggernaut and Powertech) have a shield that they are capable of getting, only the Assassin/possibly the Shadow have no option for a shield. I'm using the term 'classist' jokingly here, of course, but it does come off as a slight and as if Assassin tanks are being overlooked in this. It may not be a big issue overall, as customizable shield generators for force users are pretty accessable in the first place, but as said before, it's awkward to roll an Assassin Tank, go get your custom gear and then have to buy a moddable item with credits. If this is the wrong place to post this, then shame on me. If the Dev's could please add in a simple fix, that would make me and many other Sin tanks who feel the same way very appreciative.

I should clarify before this becomes a pissing contest that you're probably a WAY better healer than some of the others that I've seen out there. In which case, CONGRATZ! Because the mast majority I've seen (minus a select few) are just target practice.

Yeah. And that means you're not healing your teammates. Which are now dead. And then you're next. Because unlike a fair majority of my fellow players... I don't go places alone unless I can handle it for certain.

Oh! Hey! A healer! Awesome! You're my first target. While I am quite happy you're pointing out that healers do exist, you're pretty much an extremely high value target. Meaning... you're going to die. Please don't feel bad, it's just part of PvP.

... Huh? Ever since I hit level 20. I'm a Pure Infiltration Tree Consular Shadow. And ever since I hit level 20 I've been getting in the top 3, if not -the- top on damage. And kills. It's a rare day for me to not get the 25+ kills medal. And I get some defense points if I play Huttball. Oh, and 'healing points' too. Medals are so common it's not even funny. And I've gotten the unstoppable announcement numerous times. I think someone mentioned Shadows being valuable to a team. This is a slight understatement. MVP votes show that, I'm sure. I mean, sure. I'm out-dps'd by Troopers, more often than not. Commando's usually. But then again, they probably live by the creed of 'Moar Dakka'. That is to say, if their gun stops firing, they're doing it wrong.

Okay, Original Poster, I went and read through the thread and took the time to view the argument from your side. And as far as I can see, from all the experience I've had in PvP in SWTOR... I've been perma-stunned a lot. Both in and outside of Huttball matches, perma-stunned deaths just really really suck. When playing huttball I'm always afraid that, as I'm crossing those fire pits, I'm going to be burned to a crisp. But I've learned to just deal with it. My CC breaker really doesn't do me much good unless I let them stack on me and THEN break it, or if I'm only fighting one or two people at once. The honest problem here, is that you don't perform well in PvP. There's nothing wrong with the abilities as far as I've seen, and the only major imbalance was the incredibly high number of 50's I started to see in PvP. I've used my fair share of Crowd Control and I do enjoy keeping people as stunned as possible until dead, but when it happens to me, it's fair game at that point. At the same time, though, I'm not going to tell you to just tough it up and learn the old fashioned way. I've got a few things to share with you! First, whenever you're facing an enemy, even in PvE, you follow a certain line of 'prioritizing targets'. Everyone has their own way of wording it, but I prefer this way; "Kill HIM first! (especially that guy!)" To break that down, HIM is an acronym. H = Healers, or Spellcasters of any sort that can and will turn the die of battle. These, always, are your first priority to target and take out. If a healer is too busy keeping himself alive, he can't focus on keeping his teammates alive, meaning once they start dying, it doesn't really matter if you actually succeed in killing him, he'll follow soon enough. I = Idiots. Yes, I know, this is a harsh term, but when you see someone new to PvP, or a low level character, or someone who's just... not all there when it comes to getting the job done, don't ignore them. Kill them. Dead. Why? Because you get: a higher post battle report in the form of a higher damage score, a higher kill score, and various other things depending on your luck. All around, it just makes you look better, and feel awesome. There's also the side-fact that if you -don't- go for them, they're going to cause some damage one way or another. M = Most everybody else. This is a general category. If it's not critical to keeping people alive and keeping your people out of action, they're a secondary target, always. As a Consular Shadow, the bane of my existence (and most everyone elses!) is a Sith Juggernaut. They're darn near impossible to kill unless you've got a bunch of people backing you up. Which means I leave them alone unless I stand a fighting chance, because otherwise I'm just feeding the guy kudopoints. (And then there's "Especially that guy!" This refers to anyone who has actually killed you or you have a vendetta against, or just someone you know is a really easy target. Yes. This is entirely legitimate in PvP. It's not called griefing, and it's not stalking or singling that person out as long as you don't go out of your way to make certain their PvP matches are living hell. It just happens to be that you recognize that name and say 'Hey! I remember you! DIE!') Of course there's a lot more to PvP than just target prioritization. Any match you play has to have a good solid leader that pays attention, and teammates that work together. The problem is most people don't see the point in winning a match (at least on my server) because they still get benefits at the end. Remind them of this; Whenever you WIN a Warzone, you get a larger sum of credits, XP, valor, and commendations. Whenever you get a BADGE, you get an additional 30 Valor and 5 Commendations. Whenever you get an MVP vote (Most Valuable Player, for those that don't know the acronym) you also get bonus Valor and Commendations. In short, the only true reason to work as a team to win is so you can benefit the most. That's really all it is, it's all about you. I may have also mentioned a few times things like 'don't take someone down alone' or something similar. Because there's a good point to that statement, which is... well, don't be the only person charging head on into a throng of four other people. You will die. There is no question. Another thing; be adaptable in any Warzone match. If you see an opportunity, either mention it as fast as possible or take the chance yourself. Civil War Matches are great to play for that reason. 20 health out of 600 health left on our republic ship by the time the Imperial Ship went kaplooie, because I took a chance and stole a turret that was left undefended. And a word of advice when dealing with Huttball: I've seen so many players on both sides focus only on the Ballholder. This just doesn't make sense. It's a tried and true method of failure. Unless that Ballholder is all by him/herself and is just running like a madman for the goal line (which it is then okay to obliterate them), they're going to have a throng of people surrounding them. This means that by the time your team actually gets around to killing the ballholder and shifting the ball over to your team, you're probably only one of two survivors. Oh look, the ball is now theirs again when you're dead. You -absolutely- have to take out as many people -around- the Ballholder first. If you target the Ballholder, he's being guarded. Find that guarder, kill them. They don't have guard on them anymore. Kill the healer so they can't keep him alive too, while you're at it. Mop up any stragglers while focusing on the ballholder, and now you and your teammates and start marching up to their doorstep instead. Also, pass the ball. Really. Even if you don't actually pass it to anyone, and are just tossing it away. It's better to let it go neutral than let it fall into enemy hands. Hope this helps you!

It's funny you mention that. What they've actually been saying they're focusing on fixing is those issues you've just mentioned. A mass majority of the complaints that I've seen on these forums aren't stability or 'getting in the game' issues. They're people complaining about how the game isn't 'up to snuff' or 'perfect' or anything else that basically says 'we want more content.' Honestly? Stability trumps Content on the importance scale of any game. Yes, you have a right as a paying customer and a consumer of the video gaming industry to complain about your inability to play, or about an issue that has not been resolved, or about a specifically requested content that a majority of players have asked for not being implemented. The first one, inability to play = Top Priority. The second one, an issue not being resolved = wait a bit, if it doesn't get fixed, then complain, if it still doesn't get fixed, leave. A specifically requested content = There's a reason why Game Developers have the saying 'Soon'. That is to say, the game just came out. Beta testers are not plentiful. Servers are not strained. A large majority of stability issues -always- get overlooked, and when dealing with a launch, you focus on those first. Not the eye-candy or the relatively marginal things that don't really affect you in the grander scheme of things.

I can't help but feel you may be wrong... Companion wise, yes, you get to flirt. I haven't tried that, myself. But I know of several times my Consular has been able to flirt through basic missions that aren't class-related. Correct me if I'm wrong, and you're only focusing on Class Story related flirting. First time I remember seeing it was on Coruscant as an option for the guy who introduces you to the Senator, in the starport. I could also do this on my Knight, and my Trooper. I also remember at least once or twice in Taris. And again on Alderaan. Possibly Tatooine. So, you do have options. But again, I can't recall Class Story flirting at this moment. Edit: Leaving here for entertainment purposes, but I should really check the number of pages on a thread before jumping into a response! =D

Not to beat a dead horse, but the game is only 3 weeks old. Only so much you can do in those three weeks. Generally speaking, they've done far better for a launch than most all MMO's. But, while yes, I understand that you're frustrated that they haven't given you exactly what you wanted, even as requested in the Beta stages, you cannot simply assume that because it was not given directly at launch that it never will be, ever. Queues are an incredibly important thing to address in the first month or two of a launch. If your players are waiting 15 or more minutes, I'd even go so far as to say that every second you waste not fixing that is at least another couple of players that just said good riddance to your game. While I admit, I'd love to have chat bubbles RIGHT NOW!!!!! I'm willing to wait while they sort out the vast majority of stability issues for the entire playerbase, both now and in the future. Less queue waiting time, none at all, would be awesome for me. It's greatly frustrating that they didn't address this in beta. In retrospect, they might be kicking themselves in the teeth now. But they now have an incredibly huge obligation to the player base, which is keeping the servers up, stable, online, and playable. That, first and foremost, is an MMO's most important piece. All the rest is kinda candy. I hope to see a lot of what you've said implemented. I really, really do. But I'm willing to give them time, because they just launched, and they're growing incredibly fast.

I have to say, seeing this makes me a little sad. Because, to a degree, you are right. But to a larger, future extent, you're quite possibly wrong. Personally, I think the crafting in SWTOR is incredibly superior to any other MMO I've played, it just requires some good micromanaging skills. Player Housing? Very few MMO's actually have that, really. Those that do, they usually end up being group houses or Guild-based houses. You know, things to work for and build up. That is to say, this may or may not ever actually happen. Personally, I don't think it should. Guild Houses, sure. Not Player-Housing. The only downside to the ship issue is that I can't let anyone on who doesn't have their own ship. They actually make great places to interact, and yes, people do actually transition from planet to planet in your own ship. I'm actually quite interested to see what more they do with the ships, in the future. I've heard rumors and talks about customization, but not much else. Admittedly, I don't know how much Bioware's servers can handle. But pretty much most all servers have the 'heavy/full' issue. I see plenty of people, really. Quite a lot in the starter Zones, PvP matches are easy to get, Roleplay to no end in Cantina's, Guilds FILLED with active people, so on and so forth... But usually, it's only the really high-activity places like the earlier zones or the fleet that get much attention. The social or chat bubble issue -is- annoying, yes. And I hope they resolve it in the future. And, coming from City of Heroes, I have to admit... I prefer instances, by far. I don't like waiting around for that certain thing that I really really need to respawn for fifteen or more minutes, so I'll take my instance over waiting any day. Ultimately, the overarching point I'm making here is that this game is... what, -maybe- 3 weeks old since its public launch? There's only so much you can do with an MMO in three weeks, after launch. Even when you're making it, there's only so much feedback the beta testers can give you. And there's also a point at which you have to ask yourself, when you're making a game, 'Do I cut corners and release it a little bit early, so I can recuperate my losses and make my corporation happy? I can make it up to the customers later, but if it comes down to 'release this now or we'll shut you down'...' Well, you can see the obvious answer there. If you want my ten cents on this matter, that's probably what ended up happening. A few things just don't seem quite as polished as they could be. For those that skip to the end and don't want to read: One of the things you can always expect of an MMO is that it -will change-. Bioware has already outperformed most all MMO's on their release day. You're expectation of perfection from the get-go is just, honestly, not logical.