Yes, it's pretty standard to have time sinks like this in MMOs. It's a transparent way of adding hours to gameplay in hopes of impressing gamers.

Stop talking, you are being an idiot. Want to know what happened in Vanilla when big raiding parties attacked a capital city? The server crashed, they couldn't handle the load of 200+ people attacking the same spot as once. But no, you would rather be all pissy because people are actually being careful, and not allowing everything open right off the bat. So instead of a stable release, with no real groundbreaking bugs, you want a game where you can crash at any given time because there is a large group of people doing something that has absolutely nothing to do with you. Take off your blinders, you aren't in a race, and you actually need to see different perspectives to form an actual informed position. Then again, you lost all hope, in my eyes anyways, when you decided to try and start an argument off by trying to make an issue out of an error that I had already fixed. Edit: But, just to humor you, please show proof that developers had said that the Fleet will be the main hub for the entire lifetime of this game. Because as far as i'm concerned, as the game progresses, all these places that have the trainers and stuff might actually open up, and act as a secondary hub for people who are leveling their characters.

Your current view of what World PvP is, well, is quite disturbing. Going to a town and slaughtering quest givers in a low level PvP zone is not world PvP. That's PvE, disguised as PvP. Sure, it can be a way to start a battle in a small town, but it's the worst way to start it. Why you ask? Because you will either get action against your account for griefing low level players (if you keep at it too long), or even worse, nothing will happen at all. Nobody will come to save the town, nobody will try and kill you, they'll just leave you be, destroying mobs to gain absolutely nothing. Most people will just ignore you, and wait for you to get bored. I guess you never saw how Blizzard handled PvP in Vanilla, when world-PvP was in it's prime. Two words for you, dishonorable kills.

Noob is not necessarily a derogatory term to be honest, the way the OP used it, he used it as the short form version of noobie/newbie/new to the game/person that doesn't have much experience. On the other hand, it CAN be used as a derogatory term, it all depends on the context on how it is used. Kind of like how the word 'kid' can be used as the proper term when talking about a young person, but it can also be used as an insult implying that a persons opinion resembles that of a child who is talking about something they have no clue about.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that problems with the game are unfounded, invalid, and obtuse. I'm just trying to say that people are saying that the RELEASE of this game is not up to standards. Someone actually said that standards are set by peoples opinions, well, my opinion is that I should be a multimillionaire, drive a Ducati to work, and have a super model girlfriend. Does that mean the standard in life is that everybody should be a millionair, drive an expensive automobile to work, and have a super model girlfriend? No, it's a dream. The reason I say WoW at release vs. ToR at release isn't because i'm trying to make this game look better, i'm asking for some fairness when comparing the two. If you honestly think that any game can be released as an MMO could ever match what WoW is currently offering, you are going to be disappointed in any game that is released. It is literally impossible to release a game that can actually measure up to WoWs current state, in terms of leveling, end game, trade skills, classes. Trade skills alone can kill many games out there, that's just because they have had years to be able to start with a primary list, and then add onto as the game progresses. From +heal to +spell power, these things have progressed over time, allowing Blizzard to tweak the game to be a bit more enjoyable by more people. Sure, technology has progressed over time, but do you know all the fallout of adding, say, a random dungeon finder? How do you know there wouldn't be an error that could cause a person to end up on the wrong server at the end of the instance? How about why Blizzard said you couldn't trade gold to a player that isn't from your server in an instance? Was it to prevent people from exploiting it, or is it because the sudden change of gold could trigger Defender, flagging the player as a hacker when switching back to the realm server from the instance server. There are so many unknowns when making changes to the game that none of us can know unless we were in the room when the error occurred. I agree, the UI is unfriendly, but it doesn't mean this game failed. I agree that the GTN is rough around the edges, but in no way is it broken. Also, anybody who says 'wall of text crits' is an idiot. I didn't make a wall of text, in case you didn't notice, I kindly formatted what I said in to legible paragraphs, without excess use of big text, punctuation, or straight insults. PS. These are your forums just as much as they are mine.

I honestly don't know what you mean when you say 'Quality of Life'.

So I have been reading around, and I have seen many people say something along the lines of 'standards today are higher then when wow was released' when referencing where this game is in terms of development. I'm sorry, but that statement is completely asinine. Tell me, which game has raised the bar past what ToR released? As far as I can remember, for MMOs, there isn't a game that set a higher standard. Do you honestly think, because you say there is a higher standard, means that Bioware has to deliver on what you assume is the standard? Standards get set by previous releases. Not by how many tickets you submit in beta, not by what you dream is possible, and especially not by games that have had years to fine tune details to appeal to their audience. If you honestly want to compare WoW to ToR, you have to compare WoW at release. Comparing it to current WoW is ridiculous, you are giving not only a money advantage to WoW, but you also have years of ideas, tweaking, additions to the game. I'm not saying that your comments about the game where it lacks are wrong, i'm saying you can't compare these. Why not compare this game to the release of Rift/DCUO or other MMOs that were released at this time. Any MMO that is released these days are at a huge disadvantage because gamers have out of this world expectations. You want end game content waiting for you, but if the journey to end game lacks, then you will cry about how the entry level content is lacking, and there is no point even getting into this game, let alone trying to get to the rich, and very detailed end game content. If games do what WoW did, and make getting to the end game content very long and time consuming, people would cry about how it takes forever for the majority of players to even be ready for end game content. If a game tries to balance the entry level, and end game content, and avoid trade skills to try and reach deadlines, people will cry about how they're are pigeon holed into grinding for cash (DCUO!). This game is off to a great start, it has great content to get you into this game, a great storyline that take you all over the Star Wars Universe. There is a huge well to draw from in terms of expansions, there is a unique trade skill system that also acts like a money sink (these are good things!). There are options for multiple ways to enjoy this game (story questing, PvP, STAR FOX!, flashpoints). If you honestly think that there will be an MMO that is released that has everything, you need to wake up. Doesn't the fact that single player games have first day patches say anything to you? Don't you realize that if a single player can't get it perfect, why do you think a game that has thousands of people playing at the exact same time has a chance? I think a number of people here need to get their heads out of the clouds, and realize that some things take time. 'Rome wasn't built in a day'

Oh yea, what guild did you get into with saying you only had the one spec, and that you aren't in the optimal tree for your role? I also know this girl in game that says she's actually Jessica Alba. Seems legit right?

It's amazing, I say that all people are doing here are trying to point out how i'm wrong, someone says that isn't the case (which in turn is pointing out that i'm wrong), and still every reply to my posts afterwards are still people pointing out that I'm wrong. Didn't I already admit that I was wrong, but I still don't want Dual spec in the game? Guess I need to take it one step further now. Instead of trying to provide you guys with a point of view that is different then your own, I will be taking the same stance as you guys. There should be no respeccing in this game at all. You should make your decision as the game progresses. At level 10, you chose your advanced class. At level 20, you chose your skill tree. Once those have been decided, you shouldn't be able to switch trees whenever you want. There needs to be consequences of your decisions, no stupid white out, no backspace button, permanent. If you want to be able to DPS and tank, then you will need two characters. If you want to DPS in PvE, but also do some PvP, either your character will need to find a tree that does both, or roll a second character for your PvP needs. Having the ability to change when you want, is not only bad for seasoned players, you are forcing a play style on someone who has never played this type of game before. This is also going to turn new players into isolationist, because all they see is people requiring a specific skill tree, and if it isn't met, they will be made fun of. So rather then being intrigued on how the party system works, and how people work together, they will only see forced play styles, and if they go with what works for them, there is a good chance they will be excluded from a bulk of the game play. Need an example, look at the WoW forums. When someone decides to post their opinion, before they are given the chance to get a reply, they will be raked up and down some coals because 'their skill tree is garbage' or 'their enchants are wrong' or 'you've never done hard modes'. Tell me, what is appealing to someone who wants to voice their opinion, but is only discarded as invalid because someone thinks they are 'doing it wrong'. You seem to forget that some people actually play this game for their enjoyment. My enjoyment doesn't come from the ability to do everything there is to do in a game with one play-through, on one character. Skyrim is a perfect example. I started with a mage type character, then I realized that I wanted to be a sword and board warrior, was I able to talk to a magic person, pay some money, and poof, all of a sudden I forget how to use magic, and i'm able to pick up a sword and shield and be a monster? No, I had to start a new character. You guys who want dual spec, hell, even re speccing are just pint size gamers, and have no idea where video games come from. Once upon a time, you had to be careful with what option you chose, when you died, no matter how far you were in the game, you were dead, and had to start over. Stop being such a nancy, and learn that sometimes, you actually get a huge sense of satisfaction when you clear something that actually requires effort.

They are making money because they switched to a pay system that is different than WoW. See, I can do it too! Edit: I will play your game, and only take parts of your posts where I can use it against you, and completely ignore everything else you said. Hell, you even ignored the fact where I cleared up what I was trying to say, yet you refuse to see beyond the end of your nose.

Problem with what you said, in WoW, we HAD to dual spec to be considered a viable option for end game raiding. You do realize, that serious guilds (hardmode raiding) required you to have dual spec, with the cookie cutter spec to be even considered to their main lineup. How about you take your max character, and try to apply to a hardmode guild. Make sure to tell them that you aren't dual speced, that you don't have the optimal skill tree and see how far you get with that.

Actually, I stated that to point out that I'm already having problems with re-speccing alone, it will only get worse with dual-speccing. Did I also mention the fact that I was the first person he recruited into the group? The only reason he asked me is because I was the only one who had the option to re-spec into tank. I even kept myself busy for 30 minutes around the fleet, rather then hopping in a PvP match, or going out to do some questing so I could be ready for when the group was assembled. If you read my post in it's entirety, you will notice that I mentioned a point in time where the dual spec did work against me. But alas, you just want to try and prove me wrong. I'm not here telling you that you are wrong for wanting a dual-spec, i'm just here stating my opinion. It's just too bad that you can't say the same. Every response to my posts has essentially been 'NO! YOU'RE WRONG!' Fine, i'm wrong, you win the argument! I still don't want dual-spec, and I still will move on from this game the second it's implemented. It's not a threat, it's not a post saying that Bioware better be careful with how they make changes, i'm just stating my point of view. I would rather spend my money on WoW, where I already have considerable time invested in that game (release if that matters), instead of spending my money on a game that is like WoW. You seem to forget how many games have failed because they were 'too much like WoW'.

Amazing, you decided to pick out one sentence from my post to which you can make an argument, yet ignore the part where dual speccing has affected my game play.

It does because you can have multiple people filling multiple roles. So instead of teaching someone how to effectively run a raid, you just one person to fill the roles as needed. Instead of bringing in a new guild member to tank a raid, you bring your experienced DPS to switch to his tank spec, and you bring another one of your seasoned DPS players. The stuff you are listing makes it easier for seasoned players to do the maximum potential of their class, I understand that. But what about the new player, who hasn't played an MMO before? Not only are you stuffing one spec down his throat, you are cramming in a second spec for them to learn just so they can be considered a viable option for a guild. Want to know the biggest problem I see with you on this subject? You are keeping your point of view locked tight into your play style, rather then seeing the big picture. I understand the benefits of having a dual spec, I haven't once claimed otherwise now have I? All I'm doing here is providing you with a different point of view, and the only thing you seem to be able to do is try and prove me wrong. You can say anything you want from me, I stand where I stand, and I have no qualms about spending my $15 a month somewhere else. Instead of trying to argue with me, how about you use my posts as a education tool, and understand that different people see things differently from you. Like I said, I have my tank character, I have my DPS character, and I have my healing character. Heck, I even started a DPS PvP and a healer PvP character. I like doing playing different roles in this game, I just don't see why you should have access to multiple play styles without putting forth the time. To be honest, I think that re-speccing shouldn't be in this game, but I understand that there are many people who want this option, and if I want those people supporting the game I enjoy, I will have to accept that there are things that I want that won't be included in this game. It's really too bad that you can't say the same thing.

Problem is, it is effecting my game play. I have tried explaining how it will, and you don't seem to get it. It was like the other day, I was on my assassin (dps), and the party leader couldn't find a tank, so he asked me to re-spec. I said no, because I had no interest in tanking, guess what, I was booted from the group because I was being 'unhelpful'. Tell me, how does that not affect my game play? I have been booted in WoW because of my priest (holy/disc at the time) was booted from raids and parties because I had a dual healing spec, rather than a healing/dps spec. That is affecting my game play because the way I wanted to play got me booted from playing the game. My solution is simple, if they add it, I'll just find another game to play. I'm not saying this for dramatics, or as a threat, i'm just stating the fact. If i'm forced into a similar play style to WoW, I may as well go back to WoW. I have more time invested there, I still have my group of friends there, I still have my guild over there. The more games become like WoW, the more likely I will go back to WoW. I didn't get this game to play a re-skinned version of WoW, I came here to play something different.