I see. So there were hypersonic slugs being fired. How do you link that to the other source that states the blaster was faster? I mean, if not all slugs are equal we can't tell the speed of the one fired with the blaster...

To me, those "out of movie" calculations are completely ********. The effects of the blasters are just there to make the movie cooler, it doesn't mean it actually moves in that speed. The movie would be a lot less cooler if there was just the sound of the blaster and people getting shot. We shouldn't apply real life physics in any movie, as we all already know from 007 movies. Wolf, thanks, the first two quotes are enough to prove it, though they are from some "obscure" sources. I wonder why (and if) there isn't any other sources talking about it. All those guides of droids and weapons/equipments and no one talks about it?

Where can I find this information?

There is any canon source stating the speed of blaster fires? I mean canon, not some screentime calculation.

Girdeux, that's how they are. They ask for evidence, and even when you show some they just ignore it or distort it completely to fit they arguments. Girdeux presented evidence that novels can many times CHANGE what we see in the movies, or simply ADD significat information that CHANGES everything, like the one with luke and the lightning. The novels always tend to make luke and sidious all powerfull, as you guys do too. After this last page i just give up arguing with beni, wolf an aurbere, who think they are the ultimate star wars authority

You gotta be kidding me. He deflects? Luke didn't even knew about force lightning by that time and you think he deflected it? It's pretty clear in the scene the he was suffering all of palpatine's power. Oh, so it just didn't appear on the scene? he was always deflecting when the camera was pointed to sidious? That's it. Won't even bother to carry this on. Can't be killed, but it was easily done by crippled vader. Yes, again this argument, it is a good one and will ever be used when we compare movie sidious vs eu sidious. Eu sidious would simply fry vader with his ultimate lightning or just use the force to push or simply fly away. Sometimes it's subjective, sometimes it isn't. Luke reflecting lightning isn't subjective. He just didn't.. ANYTHING in the scene points to that. No one would ever imagine that if weren't for this stupid novel trying to change the movie. So, if a writer writes a new novel saying that yoda ghost appears on the second dead star and tell vader to throw sidious down on the pit it is true? no, because it wasn't on the movies. I don't need evidence to state this, it's not me saying is the gosh darn movie scenes. Stop swallowing everything they put on a novel, expecially if it's about events in the movies!! About yoda: was said that sidious stalemated windu. Actually he stalemated yoda, because yoda wasn't abble to win and gave up. Sidious would probably win and maybe kill yoda, but he didn't defeated yoda. Both of them was affected by the dorce explosion (if sidious won only yoda should fall, right?) and yoda was still alive and able to fight (not alive like anakin after kenobi fight). About windu: This is a harder one. The only 2 options was sidious lost or sidious lost on purpose. This isn't very clear in the movie, altough i believe he trully lost, and neither on novels. So it's a matter of personal opinion and then shouldn't be used as arguments in favor of sidious. I think instead of asking for evidence you should post the ones for your statements about his as well. Either way, windu wasn't stalemated. The fact is that windu won the fight, even if not by his merit (sidious faking the defeat)

I didn't see any arguments in this thread. Beni was the only one posting something intersting, and i agrre with you. They are the same (altouth i tend to think OR are slightly more combat focused), with some particular differences

They aren't adding more depth, they are changing what we saw in the movies. Do you really believes that luke redirects sidious lightning? Just answer this There was clearly a draw with yoda, both exploded with the force. windu disarmed and was ready to kill him. And he was the best of jis era, hence grandmaster, not of all times.

I have seen people say that the PT jedis (and siths) are more powerfull than the old republic ones. Why is that? I believe that the old republic force users were as good as pt ones with the major difference that there was a lot more of them and that they were constantly in battle.For this reasons i would say that the old republic jedis and sith were a lot more suited for combat than the PT golden era jedi and sith. Palpatine himself didn't used his lightsaber for decades, and the jedi were only fighting droids and non force users.Won't even consider the new jedi order, because i don't like the post ROTJ EU and because canon may change with episode VII. The most common arguments are: 1- the jedi and sith had more knowledge in pt than or. Wrong. In fact a lot of sith knowledge was lost during the battle of rusaan with all sith death and even more with lord gravid, that destroyed tomes, artifacts and holocrons. A lot of techniques was lost, like essence transfer. The jedi never looked for secrets for power like the sith, so this isn't a good argument for them. 2- the sith was more powerfull because they wouldn't kill each other. Well, acrually they did kill each other and a lot of times they didn't even fight a honorable fight like the rule of two was supposed to have. 3- the jedi had more time to meditate, train and improve lughtsaber techniques meditation and training doesn't make better warriors than real battle. The only technique developed was vaapad which is a version of form VII. And most important, the jedi didn't had all that time to prepare, they was still in constant conflict, but with droids and mercenaries instead of real threats, like siths. So, these are my thoughts, share yours...

You got a good point about the eu vs movie thing. Then, as I said: EU sidious vs Malgus: sidious wins Movie sidious vs malgus: malgus probably wins

Did you got all this terms from somewhere? So you are saying that sidious could use heal, but would "fall" yo the light side? I get it from the Jedi point of view but not Sith... And that's why some characters are unique, like revan jaden, etc...

We arent saying that they are stronger because there are more sith, but more EXPERIENCED and war forged ones. Novelizations are just wrong. We saw the movies and the novels frequently contradicts the movies. Luke didnt absorb or redirected lightning, yoda flew and windu won. No autor can change what we saw in the movies. Stop basing arguments based on false information from this novel jokes!

Is a jedi (or light side force user) able to cast dark side force powers? And is a dark side force user able to cast light side force powers?I believe that if a jedi uses dark side powers he may fall to the dark side. But if a sith is able to use light side powers, like heal, than sith are a lot more powerfull than jedis, because they could use both sides of force.In KOTOR we see that we can buy powers of both sides, but depending on your alignment, it is easier to cast powers of your nature and harder from the opposite nature. A lot of other games, like KOTOR II and Jedi Academy, shows force users using both sides.How would this work in "real" Star Wars world?

Well, i think the debate here is more about movie Sidious vs EU Sidious. While EU Sidious would probably defeat Malgus both in force powers and lightsaber combat, I think movie sidious would lose the fight. In the movies, sidious is still one of the more powerfull force users and stalemates yoda ( Aurbere, stop saying he defeted yoda, this didn’t happened, yoda flew because he knew he couldn’t defeat sidious and his stormtroopers). But as a lot of people already pointed, not only in this thread, the movie era isn’t full of sith lords and force users battles to compare and decide how good someone is. So, if we consider movie sidious against Malgus, I’d bet on Malgus, because he is a combat monster and is constantly fightning (and wining) real war prepared jedis. While sidious is sitting in his office doing politics. Is stated in novel that he didn’t even grabed his saber for decades. Sidious, even being the all powerfull still lost to windu. I know windu is one of the best dualist of the order, but I bet all of you would say that sidious>windu in a sidious vs windu thread before the movie came out. Aurbere, I don’t know why you say that he stalemated Windu, when we can see him losing his saber and the fight to windu in ROTS. And please, don’t come with novel arguments or Vaapad. Yes he used vaapad and won. It’s part of his lightsaber skills, that’s makes him better. This is obvious, a mma fighter just can’t stop training AND fightning, doesn’t matter how good his techniques are or he will become obsolete. This is valid for any field: sports, fights and even academics. As movies canon is superior to novel canon I would consider malgus victorious in this one. Another thing that I noted in this thread is that all sidious lawyers always resile on novels on their arguments. But many times novels are wrong. Someone posted that luke was defending and even redirecting sidious lightnings in ROTJ!! That’s ridiculous we all saw the movies and that doesn’t happen. The novel says that sidious bent windu lightsaber and would also kill him. Another ridiculous statement, we see in the movie that Windu would have killed sidious if weren’t Anakin saving his ***!!! So stop stating novels as facts. They aren’t. PS: Could someone link real evidence about sidious being a master of all seven lightsaber forms, please?

Hi, i already read darth plagueis, revan and darth bane first book. I'm going to finish darth bane trilogy and then wanted to read something about old republic and new jedi order. So, which are the best old republic book and new jedi order, i want some that shows luke in his prime and is focused on him for the new jedi order.

Which Star Wars era do you prefer and why? I really like the old republic era because of all the sith and jedi. prequels era are nice too, as is original trilogy, but i hate new republic era...

So, all someone have to do is grab him and throw him? I think vitiate could do that... And it's still not explained why he didn't fly or used the force to survive the fall, if he's so powerfull

Please, enlighten me..

Well, and there's the inquisition. A bunch of gamers saying something again and again on internet don't make it true. Considering only pre ep.6 sidious, we can only see that he really is powerfull. A lot powerfull, actually, probably the most powerfull force user of his time, since he could handle yoda. But this doesn't mean anything if you compare him to old republic characters. In this game, you can see jedi and sith do stuff a lot more impressive than sidious in the movies. Say it's a overkill is ridiculous. We're talking about a guy that could destroy the entire galaxy(no one else could), live for more than a thousand years ruling a sith empire full of powerfull backstabbing siths and kill members of the dark council like they were ants. No it's not an overkill. I would say sidious is a better lightsaber duelist, but vitiate is clearly more force powerfull. Aurbere, the thread you posted was an failed attempt to prove that sidious' first death was something inevitable even for someone with the power you guys claim him to have. You just stated what we see in the movie, but you failed to explain why someone so powerfull couldn't just: foresee or feel such a strong emotion and react before being caught, force push vader, fly or grab at something (obi wan did this in ep.1). LadyKulvax, most things you posted about sidious could be done by powerfull force users(plagueis?). And i may be wrong, but i think that is things of EU sidious... I agree with you that sidious would probably kill vitiate on lightsaber duel (not a stomp), but in a force duel i don't know. You guys don't even consider the fight. It's a stomp, he lost and there's no way vitiate could win. Posts like this take all your credibility.

I think it's funny how the Vitiate haters (interestingly also revan haters...) try to impose their OPINION about this matter every time someone post in favor of Vitiate. Well, i believe that if you consider Post ep6 sidious - which is not supported by George Lucas (He said that luke doesn't get married and sidious don't get the clones, the story should end on ep.6) and you guys who looks like the G-Canon inquisition support - then sidious would PROBABLY defeat Vitiate, though not an easy fight. But, considering Sidious Pre ep.6 and mainly in the movies, it's ridiculous to say that sidious would kill vitiate or even survive for that long as a REAL SITH EMPERIRE's emperor as vitiate did. The old guy just got trhown in a pit and died, if he's all powerfull why didn't he flyed or hang on somewhere? The fact is, if you see the movies, it's clear that he wasn't supposed to be powerfull like EU sidious. Sure, he is the more powerfull of all movies, but not that force god the Eu autors made him. So, Post ep.6 Sidious >= Vitiate Movie Sidous <<< Vitiate

I didn't read all the thread, but i saw a lot of things that i agree a nd have always said. First, just because George Lucas says something (or any other writer) it does means it's the universal truth. If you take this way and use it as argument, there will be no debate and you just don't have an opinion.(doesn't mean you can't agree with them, but base arguments on something). Second, a LOT of people think that EU after ROTJ sucks and are just crap which i agree. For the Canon followers Lucas himself said that there's no sidious clone and he nor vader returns (not that his words makes any difference to me, but i agree that this is crap). Which is completely different from Old Republic EU, that i never heard anyone complain about it. IF you think that post ROTJ EU doesn't suck, just think about it. Clones, force storm destroying planets,luke married... Third, wtching all the movies, it just doesn't looks like sidious or even luke are meant to be the most powerfull being in galaxy. Sidious is very very powerfull and we see that in ROTS, but i don't think you can compare him to sith from a time where there was alway some conflict, including constant lightsaber fights. Sidious could be the most influential and clever sith though. And in any movies ever was said that luke was or would become the most powerfull force user of the galaxy, he's just a great jedi and i hope Disney change this in episode VII. So, my final answer is: IF you go by all EU crap and want to give writers arguments, yes Sidious is more powerfull than Vitiate. But if you compare what both of them was meant to be as characters it's very clear to me that Vitiate is way more powerfull.

Hi, i'm playing with my immortal hybrid juggernaut and now i'm almost lvl 47. I was planning to be immortal hybrid all the way to lvl 50. I wanted to tank and survive most FP, and still do a good damage. I know that i would never do as many damage as a full rage spec, but i wanted to do good. But recently i was told that the Rage spec with all it's smash buffs is amazing and do a LOT of damage. Is this true? How much damage it does more than immortal? And what is the best immortal/rage hybrid spec to survive and do a nice dmg? This is the specs i'm using/ planning to use when i reach lvl 50: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101rMGdzkMZZrr0rdfM.2 And i would use soresu stance.

What have darth sidious done as galactic emperor besides building death star and improving military? I mean, in episode III he talks about an unified language, monetary system etc. and peace. Have he done anything close to this?

It is ridiculous to say that sidious would kill windu. It's clearly obvious in the MOVIES that anakin saved palpatine. Windu won the lightsaber duel, and stoped the lightning for a time. The best palpatine could do would unleash a new lightning, but i doubt it would be strong/fast enough to prevente the killing blow fomr windu. Accept this Mace Windu won the fight. Anakin saved palpatine's life.

mefit, i agree with everything you posted. I think there is no way to say for sure that one character can kill the other. It all depends, as we see in ROTJ, A weak Vader killed the GOD Darth Sidious. In Phantom Menace, Darth Maul killed Qui-gon. I bet that everyone in this forum would say that quigon would "wipe the floor" with maul, but that didn't happened. So about Revan vs Vader i think they are at the same power level, but i think Revan is smarter and brighter, which could give him some advantage, depending on the scenario. All those Revan haters are biased and ignore all of Revan's achievements or consider them as ridiculous. Aurbere even said that Revan defeating Nyriss wasn't anything important, because she used all her force power in a single attack and all he did was redirect to her. Well, this IS a big deal, other jedi (exile, Scourge?) in his place would be burned in one second. I also agree with the golden era jedi vs old republic jedi. George Lucas just want to make his creations the best, because logic says that a jedi living in a time of war and combat would be a better warrior.