Okamakiri
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Posts posted by Okamakiri
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It still applies in PvE if you are geared you will be stronger than someone who just hit 50 so really you just dont know how to respond to that
The difference is that someone who just hit 50 is not forced to right away tackle hardest PVE content. They are not forced to participate at the same level as that geared 50. Instead they can progress up the PVE ladder at their own pace, gearing themselves and tackling harder encounters as they do. In PVP they don't have that choice, they are forced to go up against "hardest" PVP encounters immediately, i.e. people already decked out in BM gear. The problem will only get worse with time. A year from now a fresh 50 will enter a WZ where 90% of his oponents will be wearing Warlord gear. The stats themselves already create enough of a discrepency, adding expertise on top of it is just plain stupid. Removing expertise and equalizing PVP and PVE gear would give a fresh 50 an option of gearing themselves through other means.
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MMOs are all about grinding gear. We have PVE to grind for, and PVP gear to grind for. No point in getting rid of half the end game content.
What an idiotic justification for a flawed system. If lack of endgame content is the reasoning, then extend the grinds in each, don't punish the person that wants to enjoy both aspects of the game by making them grind twice as much as those who choose to participate in only one.
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Yeah i want expertise gone so that raiders can come into PvP and wreck my face over and over then start farming us at spawn
The only way that raider would be wrecking your face due to gear is if you have not achived the same level of gear through PVP that he has achieved through PVE. The key is keeping the achievable PVP and PVE gear equal.
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Having two paths to the exact same gear IS the problem. Why should a hardcore raider who has never stepped into a warzone have the best PvP gear? That will make the elite gear club even MORE exclusive.
The same reason a PVPer could have the best PVE gear. If the best PVP gear is same as best PVE gear, the playing field is equal whether you prefer to PVP or PVE, or do a bit of both. Why shouldn't the gear earned in one aspect of the game not be viable in another? Should craftable gear not be usable in PVP or PVE either then? Should Biochem/Cybertech consumables not be usable in PVP either? This whole notion of separating PVP and PVE as if they're two distinct games within the same game is a primitive and outdated idea, and has been proven a failure repeatedly.
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Perhaps I should get top notch pve gear from pvping as well then? Would that be a fair trade?
That's exactly what your gear should be. PVP and PVE gear should be equal (set bonuses could still favor the type of gameplay they originate from). Same goal, two path to reaching it. It's the dev's job to make sure the paths are equally difficult and time consuming.
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Then it becomes a requirement that the time and effort to acquire these generally-equivalent pieces of gear is nearly identical. Which is rather hard to accomplish. Otherwise whichever route is easier will generally make players feel "required" to participate in that type of gameplay in order to be competitive in their desired field of play.
PVP-gained gear easier to obtain? Raiders feel forced to PVP.
PVE-ganed gear easier to obtain? PVPers feel forced to raid.
Agreed, but I think the effort to balance that is worth the benefits, and it would solve so many other problems that it would free up development time to dedicate to balancing gear acquisition in different aspects of the game. Besides, balancing gear progression in all parts of the game should be done regardless. Currently, as a solo player, it seems easier to obtain top PVP gear then PVE, because even a solo player who continuosly fails at WZs can eventually reach his goal. It may be more time consuming, but it's just a grind, it doesn't require skill or other people. Being skilled and having friends will just get you there faster.
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In my opinion it would make more sense (as has been suggested several times) to turn the expertise stat into a PvE version that only applies in flashpoints / hardmodes / operations / hm ops / nm ops.
The advantage would be that the NPCs don't complain about being smacked harder, the raiders (hate that term) will keep their edge in PvE while people who are practiced in PvP get to smack people going into PvP with PvE gear - and leaving them without an excuse of "HE HAD RESILIENCE!111!". Skill > Gear in PvP (in my little ideal world) - and equalizing gear in PvP helps greatly with that.
The problem with this suggestion that keeps getting brought up, is that it still creates segregation of players and a requirement to have separate sets for PVP and PVE. I see so many people saying it's the way it should be (and bringing up other games as if their similarly flawed system is a good example), yet none of them give a good reason as to why it's necessary to be this way. I see no reason why PVP and PVE cannot give equivalent gear (doesn't have to be exactly the same, set bonuses can be oriented more to what they're intended for). This would open up the game to everyone and would allow people to participate in both PVP and PVE, without forcing to focus on either if they don't enjoy it.
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If they make PvP gear as good as raid gear (without needing a PvP stat) then raiders will be angry that you can bring BM armor to raids.
Not at all. If anything, more raiders may take part in PVP to supplement their PVE gear with some PVP gear as well, which is a win for PVPers too. People should have the freedom to play all parts of the game without penalty. Freedom is a wonderful thing. Ron Paul 2012
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I haven't read all the messages in this thread so I dunno if someone has already mentioned this: What about the Guild Wars model?
In that game everyone in pvp had the same level gear i.e. two rangers had identical stats on their gear, two mesmers had the same etc. In this venue pvp was one based only on knowledge + skill, no gear advantage whatsoever was included. Everyone entered the battle on equal footing.
Subsequently, the rewards in that game were purely aesthetic, but were cool enough to make the grind rewarding. I know I spent more time then I should have grinding to get the look I wanted.
I apologize if this has already been discussed, otherwise I would like to know why this might or might not work.
But then they wouldn't have an advantage over people who don't pvp all day long. It's not about skill, it's about gear!
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Guess what...
Good Pvpers kick ***
Bad Pvpers get there asses kicked
That is a simple fact that will remain the same with or without expertise.
A good pvper will do whatever is necessary to get gear for pvp. (You can get a full set of centurion gear just off the daily and weekly quests in maybe 5 weeks. Assuming you get 0 champ item tokens and dont purchase any champion bags).
So any good pvper is not running around with 0 exp they will get pvp gear and smoke people.
Bottom line is if you think that if they remove expertise all of a sudden your gonna be rocken in pvp WRONG.
You are still gonna get rolled cause you are a bad pvper.
Then there's no problem removing it from the game. amirite? or you just trolling?
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I am starting to love this idea. I will make my own post on the ops forums complaining that I want end game PVE items to come from my pvp bags. After all its not fair that they only have to run an ops once a week to get gear and i have to do warzones all day.
Don't be dense. If expertise stat didn't exist, your gear would be equivalent to raid gear. And then everyone could progress their gear by playing whatever aspect of the game they enjoy most (pvp, flashpoints, raiding, questing, etc.), and could at any point choose to take part in any other part of the game without penalty.
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If PvP and PvE gear is absolutely the same, I will still steamroll players just the same way as with expertise. I am already unkillable 2v1. If it so means that I earn gear quicker through raiding and hardmodes/whatever, I will simply form a top-notch group of elite players and mass-farm raids/HM's for the best and easiest obtainable gear, and continue to steamroll in warzones.
People will still outgear other people, and the competition is by no means any "fairer" unless you remove gear from the game completely, which sure as hell will infuriate the community.
That's fine. At least everyone will have an equal opportunity to better their character. PVE encounters are static, they don't care if you leveled to 50 first week of the game, or joined the game a year after release. PVP on the other hand get progressively harder to get into for fresh 50s. If the only source of competitive gear for PVP is actual PVP due to special PVP stat, most new players will just stay away from it, and game will continue to bleed PVP players faster then replenishing them. PVP and PVE gear progression should be nothing more then two paths to same goal.
And to comment on your "leetness". In current system, if you go up against an equally skilled player who's decked out in PVE gear of equivalent quality to your PVP gear, you will win by default. Likewise if you both go into a raid, he will out DPS you. I see no reason why things should be this way. If you both put in equal effort in different aspects of the game, you should be equally viable in all aspects of the game.
Special stats just discourage people from taking part in all aspects of the game. You shouldn't want to keep "PVE noobs" out of your PVP, you should welcome the new blood. Fact is, some of them will enter with their "carebear" gear anyway, so the fact that they're at a disadvantage puts you at a disadvatage as well if they're on your team.
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If top PVP gear = top PVE gear, there is no need for special PVP stat. Special stats just create segregation of player base, which is never good for the game. There is no reason why someone who enjoys both PVP and PVE can't wear a mix of PVP & PVE gear. Forcing people to focus on one aspect of the game is not good for anyone. And to all the PVP-only people in the thread against this idea, if you think you're hot sh*t, then you shouldn't need a special stat advantage to beat a "PVE noob". Besides, this isn't WoW, if anything PVP gear is superior to PVE gear atm. PVP is so much more enjoyable pre-50 because it's more about skill then gear.
The answer to why expertise is needed
in PvP
Posted
Which means the effort is not equal. Getting PVP gear is time consuming but easy, top PVP gear should be an indication of skill, which is what WoW attempted to do with its arena rating system (which I'm not advocating, but it's certainly better than SWTOR's system). SWTOR PVP system is nothing but a grind where an AFKer can become a BM.
PVP stats are developer's admitance of failure to balance gear progression in all aspects of the game. If effort and skill required to achive gear in PVP and PVE is similar, people will choose to participate in what they enjoy most, as it should be. People choosing to grind gear in one aspect of the game to use in another is an indication of design flaw, i.e. failure to balance gear progression. Kind of how crafting is currently absolute garbage in comparion to PVP or raiding.
Get rid of expertise and tie PVP gear to a level of skill, same as PVE.