detora
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Posts posted by detora
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Swtor reg pvp is a sad state of affairs. I remember playing Hutt ball and not giving the other team an inch. Bioware keep making awful changes to the game and it’s driven anyone who used to love swtor pvp from the game or queue.
Most serious PVPers have either left or only play ranked now. It’s not because they don’t like objective pvp, it’s that they don’t like the degraded state of reg pvp and the stupidness that’s led to its demise.
??? Serious pvpers don't play SWTOR; regs have nothing to do with it. That isn't to say there aren't good players that continue to play (ofc there are), but this game is far too simplistic in class design, CC and interrupt mechanics, awful arena maps, etc... to be competitive. Not to mention the terrible game performance. It's designed for casual players. And that's cool; enjoy it for what it is.
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Kudos for doing this. I'd like someone (you, if you're willing) explain the concept of CC for newer players. In the 25 or so games I played tonight, I'd say 1/3 of them someone on my team didn't know what a mezz or sap was.
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I've been gone for about six months besides coming back just to do some random story here and there. I'll admit I expected there to be some balance changes from when I left. The Merc and Mando meta still exists I see. I was really disappointed to se very little diversity in the PvP matches. I played about 10 matches and consistently there were between 6 to 8 mando /Merc 3 to 6 sorc and I few juggs and sents. Even in the past balance wasn't perfect but we did have way more diversity in the game.
Mercs (specifically Arsenal) are very forgiving and extremely easy to play so it's natural to see a lot of them. The only saving grace is that their "anti-focus" DCDs are on long timers (Kolto, Reflect). The real issue IMO is the passive healing/CD reduction on the shield (who wouldn't take that talent?) and a spammable 30m root when spec'd (which used to be tied to Rocket Punch, a 4m ability on a 9sec CD) and a 70% slow on blazing bolts - that lingers for 3sec afterwards. Arsenal is a clicker's wet dream.
Insult to injury is e-net, which, due to the popularity of the class, makes it an extremely powerful ability that has very little counterplay due to Hinder not respecting white bar. IOW, the no "punish" for throwing e-net whenever you feel like it.
Good mercs will excel at the class and are hard to deal with. As it should be. But it's simply too easy a class that can stand or backpedal and survive way longer than necessary with little effort.
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What incentive do people have, truly?
Ranked 8's have been gone since 2.4, and most of the population as well. Back in the day, playing objectives was something people did because they either wanted to work on strats or wanted to get on a ranked team. Although most guilds never queued up, but that's besides the point.
There isn't an "end game" for 8v8; only scrimmages. There is no penalty for losing. Nor is there any benefit to winning.
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What if there was a premade that could always get the highest damage, protection and heals AND secure the win every game, even vs other dmg farm and obj premades?
I know I know, mind=blown.
It used to be that way, particularly when 8v8 ranked existed. The removal of that game mode has led to people not caring about winning because there's no incentive. Newer players who weren't around then don't seem to realize this. Regs used to be a way to practice strats and coordination, though most guilds weren't confident enough to field a team (which eventually led to ranked 8s being removed).
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Ok so I know that when it comes to the three healing classes each has there ups and downs and are good a on thing then the others. Now I say this because I was just in a PvP match and the whole time a sentinel, guardian and myself (sage healer) was fighting this one scoundrel, 3 vs 1. I'm not sure what his specs were but I do know that I saw some heals and he keep taking out the other two if I didn't heal them. So my question is how can scoundrel stand up to that kind of attack? I am asking that because I am a decent healer I have the top gear/mods and the top augments and I can't stand up to 3 others like that. This is not the first time that I have seen the scoundrel/operative class hold their own like that with hardly a scratch on them. I also know it how good you are at playing the toon, but come on the scoundrels and operative are way strong. Is it suppose to be like each class can stand up to one another, but it feels like the scoundrels and operatives are at the top with multiple stuns, heals, high attacks, and stealth.
Respectfully, it's a L2P issue. Mechanically, operatives survivability is mostly "active"; i.e., roll. They have to spend a GCD to evade or, in the case of Lethality, proc Infusion (which costs another GCD). Things like Shield Probe and Evasion are good in a pinch, but aren't design so an operative go full mongoloid (/wave @ Juggs). Here's some tips, if you don't already know:
- Operatives have no DR when stunned (Evasion is negated when stunned as well). So as a DPS, time your burst with your hard stun.
- If they're Concealment, keep track of their rolls. If you see them double roll (generally a big no-no unless you really need to GFTO), wait a GCD then root/hinder/stun. Lethality gets a free heal every 8secs, but you can CC them anytime you want.
- Roots force an operative to use Countermeasures/Halo (if spec'd), Evasion or their cleanse (depending on the type of root), the latter being on the GCD. Likely they'll roll afterwards, so another GCD they aren't doing damage.
- If they're white-barred and you want to secure the kill, use a Hinder ability (enet, gore).
Since you were the healer, help out the DPS (who clearly weren't very good) by throwing out some damage and chaining a stun off theirs.
- Operatives have no DR when stunned (Evasion is negated when stunned as well). So as a DPS, time your burst with your hard stun.
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i have a better idea...nuke this garbage class into space.
friggin' tired being netted constantly, make it like the grenades or bloodthirst by having a debuff...oh and this class clearly needs more DCD's.
I'd settle for Hinder respecting resolve. IOW, if you're white-barred you can still use phase walk, roll, combat stealth, etc...
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For those of you on Jedi Covenant may recognize my Sith Jugg Füger. I've been pretty vocal in WZ's about many of the balance issues that have been around since release. I came back to the game a couple months ago to see if things had gotten any better. I left the game initially about 4-5 months after release due to the massive imbalance in PvP, along with the rampant speed and teleport hacks. Some of the issues were fixed, well, they diminished. The one that never got fixed, and people had been asking for since release was preventing premade PvP groups from being able to queue up against PUG's. WoW figured out how to do it, seems logical that SWTOR would eventually be able to figure it out as well.
Today was the final straw for me. I was in close to 15 WZ's, and each time the other team was the same premade guild group that clobbered my teams. Now think for a second, would you enjoy being on the receiving end, non stop mind you, of being rickrolled by the same guild group? I don't, and I know the people on my teams didn't enjoy it either. Typically you can leave a WZ and wait a couple minutes, requeue and you usually get out of the premade cycle. Not tonight. I would have gladly taken a 4s match which I usually despise; BW didn't have a clue when they designed it. Nothing says balance like a tank with 84,000 hp and 2018 expt that hits like a sniper... Thank you ranked gear for that one...
So whats my point? Well, quite frankly I have seen some pretty wonky PvP systems in other MMO's, and quite frankly SWTOR's is among the worst. It's quite obvious that no one at BW cares about the state of PvP, or what their paying customers want. Sorry, but no one in an unranked WZ should be able to wear ranked gear. Maybe it's time to take another idea from WoW and put everyone on a level playing field in PvP.
1) Pugging normal BGs in WoW is the definition of aids. Far worse than SWTOR. The only saving grace is that there is cross server so you don't see the same faces too often.
2) Ranked vs Normal warzone gear isn't that big of a difference. And the cost to gear in SWTOR is insanely cheap. Gear should never be an issue or an excuse, even for casual pvpers.
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I've felt for a while that Kolto Waves should be instant AoE ground target. Increase it's CD or whatever to make it not stupid OP (particularly for PvP), but whenever I heal on my operative I almost never cast anything. Sure, ppl die. IDC though, it's just regs and the average pug can't manage their DCDs or know when to disengage the fight for heals.
I havn't healed 4s since 2.whatever. Back then there were only a few burst classes we had to worry about as healers. Namely, carnage and deception. Smash was a thing then, but that AoE spike was mitigated if your team didn't have Downs and just spread out a bit. Our HoTs were stronger, so it was less aids to heal. Point is, burst specs as a whole got buffed like mad since 3.0, and operative instant cast sustain healing got nerfed. Stands to reason they play second fiddle to sorcs, and probably will for the forseable future.
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Target of Target guard swapping is not the best way and easily countered by teams with decent situational awareness. Once you've used your CC break, a hardswap will happen once you're out of white bar. The best way to reduce the frantic nature of swapping guard is to control the enemy dps. And that isn't necessarily your job. Swap guard to teammates who have little or no DCDs and are taking abnormal amounts of damage.
Then again, are you talking about solo ranked? You'll just get tunneled if you don't have a healer so GL and HF.
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Huh? Lethality barely changed from 2.0 to 3.0. They lost some survivability because their superior shield probe was taken away and split into two utilities, and they got a good damage buff by toxic blast generating TA. Concealment on the other hand got a substantial damage buff that brought them on par with lethality, and got an even better survivability boost with the removal of the RNG component from shadow operative elite.
BTW: 4.0 will increase Toxic blast's damage by 5% (That's the ability that procs 33-36 times in 10 seconds if you aren't too familiar with the spec.)
3.0 Lethality may not have changed too much, but it's a shadow of it's former self. It's basically a troll/regstar spec now. Which is fine.
Leth DoT's didn't scale well at all. The idea of tab-dotting since 3.0 is literally a waste of time since the spec has 0 energy issues and the DoTs themselves do f*ck-all. And DoT spread with Carbine Burst?! An even bigger waste of a GCD. But the biggest damage nerf to Leth in PvP was the removal of Explosive Probe. Leth is only a threat nowadays to people who stand there and eat Culls to the face.
Don't get me wrong, I love the spec. I main it (I'm just a casual Regstar these days) because it's a challenge - compared to say, AT PT or Madness Sorc. I like trolling people into 1v1s and spam healing myself while I wait out their DCDs. But that's about all Lethality is good for now. Being annoying.
As far as survivability, Lethality is more than OK in small scale fights. The off-healing is rather retarded. But the fact that DPS Operatives' best DCDs are on the GCD (e.g., Roll, Kolto Probe, Kolto Infusion) is what makes them poor for big scrums in regs and group ranked.
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@Warlord_Mailken: What is your Op's name on SL? I'm intrigued about this Concealment playstyle of yours and seek in-game lessons.
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Guardian Leap is such a strong ability....lets add it up....
Guarded player has 5% dmg reduction and/or 50% incoming dmg to tank within 15meters.
Taunted players do 30% less dmg.
Guardian Leap gives 30% dmg reduction to the affected player for 6sec. Guardian leap is on 15sec cooldown talented.
Then there is force stasis/force choke and force push.
That's alot of reduction. Oil slick aint competing with that.
You must not have played 4's since 3.0. What you list on paper vs what actually happens in competitive group ranked are very different.
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Edit - heh, now I can't remember who you may be.
You don't remember Panser, yet you rep the guild tag? Kids these days...
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So... does anyone other than me and a few friends have problems with operatives/scoundrels being absolutely *********** overpowered ?
Nevermind the spec -and I'm gonna exagerate a bit on this... or not- but being able to nail you down with stealth, roots, op crits, armor penetration, and if you survive all this by a somehow merciful miracle, they HEAL THEMSELVE while continuing their dps on you.
If you ever manage to encounter only healer specs, you can just watch and enjoy the show while they heal a full team and run all around without being bothered by anything. When you're in a not-so-idiot team for once, you can hope a little focus on them, they don't even care, just vanish/ evade/ roll, and come back two seconds after.
This is after having a nice showdown with a 5 scoundrels team on Novare AND Alderaan, where they didn't give **** about our focus, took three nodes (two on Alderaan, yay us.) and just hold us hostages like that.
I'm curious what class you play? Operative (all specs) has IMO the highest skill cap in the game currently (although that isn't saying much nowadays). What may appear as "op" is usually quite calculated. Granted, Concealment's rotation was dumbed down in 3.0 so even a monkey can put up good burst, but knowing how to survive and be a real offensive threat on an Op takes a lot of awareness.
As for Operative DPS, roll is very powerful and one of their best defensive CDs. Since it is on the GCD, thats a GCD they aren't directly attacking you. If they're Concealment, they resist everything for 1.5 after each roll. You simply don't attack/CC them during this time. If they happen to double roll away, that's good for you: they're retreating, and for the next 10 seconds they're susceptible to getting pooped on. Stun locking an Operative is probably the easiest way to kill them, or at the very least forcing a CC break/Camo. Keep track of their use of DCDs, and focus them before their breaker has come off CD.
If you're going against a Lethality Operative, you probably shouldn't waste your time tunneling them until they get in close to spam Cull. Their DoTs did not scale well at all in 3.0, no Explosive Probe for burst, and generally speaking they aren't a big threat. Unless you can root or chain stun a Leth Op and burst him down, they'll lolroll away and heal to full.(if you're not aware their roll procs a free Kolto Infusion once every 10sec). Remember, Operative's self healing is all on the GCD, so those are GCDs they are not attacking.
Operative healing is powerful but is quite bad when dealing with burst damage. The best way to deal with Operative healers is to CC them whenever they don't have full resolve. Their HoTs will fall off and their team will die soon enough. In PuG regs this isn't very easy since everyone is just hitting buttons with no coordination, but try to do your part.
I realize it's frustrating to play against 5 operatives because they're so sneaky. However, I'd be willing to bet that you'd be equally frustrated going against 5 AP PT's.
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Hey guys,
A buddy of mine and I just transfered here from POT5 (RIP). I was curious about the 4s scene in general. Are there consistant teams queueing? Is Kickball a thing here? Are any teams in need of a DPS or Heal spot? Any info on 4s would be appreciated.
I currently have my Marauder here (Notari) and may transfer my Operative if this server has potential. Cheers.
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If anything a simple increase of PS/Gore to 4.5s would give combat/carnage the dps increase it needs
Carnage's DPS output is fine (in PvP at least). If Gore was brought back to 4.5sec, the CD would have to be increased to 15sec to compensate. It essentially then would be the same as it was pre2.0 (minus Rupture and Retaliate).
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This does not seem to be the solution. Just nerf roll and combat stealth in some way as well as reduce the efficiency of guards - problem solved ...
So what you're really saying is... nerf operatives?
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Didn't you make Stronghold Labes BoP to stop players from moving warzone comms to other characters via legacy bank? And now you're adding a Warzone Comm Legacy Lockbox?
Logic?! Anywhere?!
They're giving the pvp community want they want.
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Mercs get boned for the same reason everyone else gets boned, "metrics". The devs see the metric that mercs have "high passive DR" and therefore think anyone who wants a focus break is a l2p baddie. Until they learn that the only way to truly grasp balance is to play the game, extensively, mercs will continue to suffer.
Mercs cast more than any other healer, and in PvP it's the easiest to shutdown. They aren't easy to kill persay, but the meta in 4s is Pressure/Burst (Hatred/AP being the best). Cycle all hard stuns on the merc, coordinate interrupts when they're whitebarred. Your team will die unless you're very good at hard switch (which is still viable, but much harder now with loldotspread). Add to that they have no aggro drop in PvP and it's GG.
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It will change the meta for people who care about objectives in unranked warzones I guess. But personally, reg wz's are fun when you pewpew and not care about winning or losing. More people spam capping means easier targets to blow up. I'm ok with it.
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My friend, youre telling us of numbers as if the Sage/Sorc and their team, would be frozen in time. No bubbles, no running, no CCs, and no DOTs.
Aside from that, healing abilities are overpowered and every PvPer know that. 2 good DPS full geared in ranked, can be totally free to hit a Merc, without bringing him down for too long time. Long enough to make rest your party fight like theres 1 guy missing.
I gave rough numbers because the OP was basically parsing on some sage healer (e.g., face tanking). So yes, "frozen in time" as you say. Like a training dumby.
Only bad DPS complain about how overpowered healing is in PvP. Trust me, healing in 3.0 is absolute AIDS against good players that know how to focus fire, CC and interrupt.
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L2P issue. On a warzone training dumby, in full Dark Reaver, any average DPSer should be able to parse at least 3k sustained (a "good" one will push 4k). So 3x3k=9k DPS. Add in 3 interupts and 3 hardstuns, there is no healer in this game that would be able to facetank that.
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Ok so other servers have been doing group ranked events long before this event in question. Why is everyone acting like this is the first time anyone put together a group ranked event?
This thread isn't about an "event". It's to find teams/guilds that want to queue 4s on the regular. If PuGs want to join, cool, but we'd rather face real competition than a couple of guys testing the grouped ranked waters.
GG's last night. We'll be queueing up every night we have enough people on (which is most nights), usually around 9PM EST. I know Tauntauns will show up if they have the people, but I would like to see other experienced guilds committing to queueing too.
Queshball, baby!
in PvP
Posted
But you also stated previously that serious pvpers quit because of the "degraded state of reg pvp". That's just... nonsensical.
Why would a competitive player quit because of a casual game mode? The game is not balanced around regs warzones.