It shows how little I've looked at Lethality that I actually missed that entirely -- ours doesn't even have a CD... but the question is geared towards Marksmanship.

The Marksmanship tree offered a talent that allowed Takedown to be used (on proc) on a target regardless of their health level -- like Knight/Warrior has. Just a pondering.

@ The OP, Yes please. Why don't we already have this? Though I'd prefer to see it as part of a Pack than as an Item with a fixed price.

Because this is basically like Blizzard offering a paid service to change your class from Shaman to Priest. Advanced class isn't something small, Its an ENTIRE Class, the two of them are miles different from the other. Short answer; No. Long Answer; This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen, No.

There's a lot of very pretty and very nice armors that are no longer available in game due to them be obsolete Tiers of gear in PvE and PvP and I'd like to see them reintroduced and made Adaptive -- and I'd like to see both sides of the models represented.

There's a lot of great looking gear from the earlier days that a lot of people would like to see again. Tionese, Columi, Rakata, Older PvP Gear, and other items. I like to keep posts short and sweet, because I don't have much else to add.

Yes, that dealt 43% of the damage done, and it doesn't increase the damage from DoTs since this was a single target test, not a mulittarget. If you follow the link I provided in the Balance Section you'll have access to every parse I ran that morning. And I'll say that I did not optimize gear for any of these builds, and I'll post my stats in the OP.

Foreword I know the title's misleading but, I wanted to get a lot of eyes on this. To begin with, my Sage is named Evelynne on Lord Adraas, 2 rakata crafted pieces, 4 columi, 2 bad implants for gear. Facing a dilemma that I seem to be the only (still active) Sage DPS on my server, I came back to 1.2 and had a question, "What's the best DPS spec 'now'?" Of course I'm speaking of the infamous 0/13/28 spec that landed us a nerf to begin with. Sadly as we couldn't parse it, it's easy to guess that it pulled roughly 1100-1200 DPS (as in my gear my TT was able to hit for that much and factoring in DoTs and subsequent hits from Telekinetic Wave and FiB, the DPS would be there roughly). So perusing the forums like I used to I came across a link to a Log Analyzer for the combat log we recieved in 1.2, so I set out to study, what is our Best DPS. Balance 3/7/31 was my build for this test. Due to the nature of the dummies on station I had to use a possibly faulty rotation to keep myself in combat long enough to drain my pool. When I finished I uploaded to the Parse. http://loganalyzer.blacksheeptroopers.com/stats/72621/showfgt My stats came out at an underwhelming 964 dps with crushed, the DoT portion of Mind Crush dealing a whopping 43% of my damage. So lets recap the info. Fight Duration: 00h 02m 55s DPS 964.01 Max damage From: Evelynne to: Combat Training Target MK-5 effect: Damage value: 2932 ability: Force in Balance Total Damages Done 168,702.00 Total Threat Generated 168,712.00 Total Damages Absorbed 0.00 Total Interrupts 0.00 Total Dispells 0.00 Damages Done Critic Percentage (Value) 45.58% Damages Done Critic Percentage (Per Capacity) 31.43% Note, this fight lasts 2 minutes and 55 seconds, lets drop to the next fight. Hybrid For Hybrid I tried the 0/25/16 build I've seen whispered about in dark corners of the forums. Now I was suprised by this since it's bread and butter was Disturbence, an ability basically discounted as 'worthless' before my hiatus from the game. I was even more taken aback that the parse took minutes for me give up on trying to exhaust my pool, and even moreso when it dealt 982.85 DPS. Fight Duration 00h 04m 48s DPS 982.85 Max damage From: Evelynne to: Combat Training Target MK-5 effect: Damage value: 2752 ability: Force in Balance Total Damages Done 283,061.00 Total Threat Generated 283,072.00 Total Damages Absorbed 0.00 Total Interrupts 0.00 Total Dispells 0.00 Damages Done Critic Percentage (Value) 45.50% Damages Done Critic Percentage (Per Capacity) 29.74% Telekinetics I'll admit when I first started playing I was a TK-fanboy, I love the chain reaction type game play, playing off procs, and all that jazz (( was totally a Frost DK in Lich King )). Anyways I used 3/31/7 here. I went for 964.5 DPS for the 5 minute limit. Fight Duration 00h 04m 21s DPS 964.50 Max damage From: Evelynne to: Combat Training Target MK-5 effect: Damage value: 2967 ability: Turbulence Total Damages Done 251,735.00 Total Threat Generated 251,749.00 Total Damages Absorbed 0.00 Total Interrupts 0.00 Total Dispells 0.00 Damages Done Critic Percentage (Value) 64.71% Damages Done Critic Percentage (Per Capacity) 43.41% Conclusion The evidence here shows that in a controlled enviroment, all three builds perform the same, but each will out perform another in certain situations. They Hybrid build can literally go on forever, I'm not even sure I dropped below 70% force, Balance obviously has an edge in PvP where resource management isn't as important, and Telekinetics obviously shines when you can stand still for long periods of time, and even more so when group armor pen is present. In closing, play what feels comfortable, and PvP stats are a horrible basis for conclusions as they're based on player skill in said situation, IE WHAT YOU DO IN PVP ISN'T WHAT SOMEONE ELSE WILL, and it's all sort of impolite and egotistical to say that's their problem. EDIT: Gear Bonus Damage 611.1 Bonus Healing 439.9 Accuracy 101.44% Critical Chance 29.92% Critical Multiplier 70.35% Activation Speed: 8.86% Willpower 1506 Columi Headpiece, Augmented Jedi Sage Vestments (101 Endruance, 121 Willpower, 44 Critical Rating, 48 Surge Rating) Ancient Battlemind's Gloves (Columi Hand) Rakata Force-Master's Bracers Rakata Stalker's Belt Ancient Battlemind's Lower Robe (91 Endurance, 105 Willpower, 44 Power, 48 Alacrity) Balmorran Resistance Boots (75 Endurance, 85 Willpower, 56 Power, 40 Alacrity) (Missing) Matrix Cube Relic of Boundless Ages Tionese Force-Master's Focus Tionese Force-Master's Relay Two Crafted Epic 49 Implants.

50% from non-talent gains goes for shields and absorption.

Perhaps make Disturbance an instant cast? Dropping the cast time to zero, we still get the GCD, and would allow us to keep the damage the same and make people not cry about casting on the move. It gives us mobility and thus some defense, it's much like the Pyromancer/ Scorch ability in Cataclysm.

Your stats are looking good, a little high on the defense and low on absorb but that's likely due to some bad drops or itemization (>.<!) of our gear. Work on getting that Absorption Rating up to match your shield chance, in the long run it'll do more than the defense will. As for Defensive Measures, it has no use in PvE since very few mobs actually stealth and harpooning something usually gets it's attention (and pop-ups aren't hidden, they're triggered spawns ). So Steely Resolve pays off more for those two points. And you asked for a rotation using Energy Blast rather than Gut. Priority Rotation: Stockstrike, Ion Pulse, High Impact Bolt, Hammer Shot, Energy Blast ( for a RIFT Junkie like myself the Macro would look like this ) So basically my hotkeys look like this. 1 (Neural Jolt) 2 (Hammer Shot) 3 (Ion Pulse) 4 (Stockstrike) 5 (High Impact Bolt) 6 (Energy Blast) I hope I don't need to explain that later. But the best way to maintain your ammo and threat output is to weave Hammer Shot between your abilities (Like Hunters in WoW with Steady Shot). (I am not making game comparisons simply referencing similar situations) <3 Myxam

I believe that as a Seer your priorities for stats should be something like this... Crit (until 20% from rating (not including your talents)) > Surge (until 20% from rating) >Power = Alacrity >Endurance > Shield > Absorb > Defense > Accuracy You get Willpower on your own so that's not a priority, in fact you'll want to take Power over Willpower as Power has a lower ratio of change. Critical and Surge are thresholds that appear to be something everyone should achieve. When you hit the DR on critical chance rating you should be sitting at about 35% Surge starts hitting Diminishing Returns at around 20%, so when you're at about 70% you should start investing elsewhere. Alacrity is a hard stat to sell as it doesn't yield much change for it's price, but having a decent amount is helpful, I just wouldn't go grabbing for all of you can. Power, at this point in time, is the single-most powerful secondary stat there is. Period. Not only is it found in large amounts, the ratio of change is extremely low. ( it's 7 power to get 1 bonus healing ) TL;DR : Crit = 35%, Surge = 70%, Alacrity = 5-10%, Power = Any you can get.

No, I'm not one of the ones who didn't see it coming that a soldier is a soldier, I was let down by the lack of personality in that role. See the example that you obviously quoted without reading.

That's just it, we shouldn't have to meta-game our characters so we can enjoy the story. Both sides should be rich, which is the quality a lot of us have come to expect of BioWare. But the Light Side, and overall, the Trooper feels extremely robotic. With every third line "For the Republic!", regardless of the alignment attached, gets old before you even get off Ord Mantell. I'm glad that an intern's story was selected, that's great for him, but the quality of the in between is flat and lifeless, unlike the Smuggler, Knight, or Consular. "Alright, I'll do it." A trooper should have more personality than that. Call me a Bad Company Fangirl, but those characters had personality and depth, but the simplicity that made them attractive protagonists. Haggard and Sweetwater went back and forth on the most random of topics. Why can DICE, who focuses solely on Multiplayer, make a more interesting story for a campaign half their customers don't even see, than a Roleplaying, Storybased company. Even the Dark Side is increasing dull, that's the character we expected to see overall, someone who doesn't give a damn about red-tape. Honestly, I was let down by the story, which is probably why I've spent all my time PVPing and running Flashpoints. ~Myxam

Forget that the Flavor of the Month build that dominated the later half of the Lich King Expansion was a Protection Paladin? Tanks belong just as much in PvP as they do in PvE, but it does require a more methodical process than point and kill, especially when the tank has the ability to benefit their party and carry objectives.

But it does say... -knife- so maybe it's more Assassin Creed like... maybe we could ask to get it to extend from the knuckle of our middle finger so we can think "F-you Imperialist... jerkwads!" or something like that while we Gut them... Yeah!

Yeah, I apologize about my lack of explanation in the original post, I was posting under duress (I had to leave to go to another class and I didn't have time to explain my choices). Honestly however, I made this thread to have fun with ridiculousness and not actually carry any bearing with actual game play, but I would like to stay realistic with the discussion. I'll edit my original post now that I have time.

Improving the Vanguard As many of us are aware, there are a few flaws, inconsistancies, and other undesirable traits with our class of choice. Here, I'd like to coalesce these, so that we better formulate our ideal Vanguard. So I ask that you post -anything- that nags you about the Vangaurd Class, be it our endgame armor, Skills, playstyle or story. I also ask, that you provide a suggestion on how it could be changed. I do not intend for anything here to be taken seriously outside the thread... so go nuts! I'll open my thread with my opinion (how lame right?). Tactics Personally, I've felt that the Tactics skill tree is rather bland, and boring. Of course Hold The Line, Pulse Generator, and Combat Tactics do liven the tree up, but it still feels bland. I also feel there are some rather weak skills populating the Tree. Shock Absorbers, Battlefield Training, and Kolto Rechargenamely. Suggestion: I'd say turning these filler talents into something more interesting would make the tree feel more dynamic. Shock Absorbers for instance, could be altered to give Stockstrike some additional effects. [color="DarkOrange"][size="4"]Shock Absorbers[/size][/color] [color="DeepSkyBlue"] Stockstrike now has a (10...20)% chance to double strike, dealing its damage twice.[/color] [color="DarkOrange"][size="3"]Shock Absorbers[/size][/color] [color="DeepSkyBlue"] Stockstrike has a (10...20)% chance on critical strike to refresh it's cooldown.[/color] [color="DarkOrange"][size="3"]Shock Absorbers[/size][/color] [color="DeepSkyBlue"] You take (5...10)% less damage.[/color][/Code] [color=RoyalBlue]Shock Absorbers does have a nice utility in PvP as it stands, but it could do more than what it does now. As frustrating as stuns are you don't spend a whole lot of time suffering from them, even in PvP. The damage you mitigate from this talent is rather minimal. [code][color="DarkOrange"][size="3"]Battlefield Training[/size][/color] [color="DeepSkyBlue"] When ever you use High Impact Bolt, Sticky Grenade, or Stockstrike you have (25...50)% chance to gain a 45% movement speed increase for 5 seconds.[/color] Battlefield Training, while movement speed is really important, especially in end-game content, the boost from this talent is hardly detectable, not to mention it doesn't stack with Hold the Line, so it's still rather worthless, not to mention you have to be in High Energy Cell to even benefit from it.[/color] [color="DarkOrange"][size="3"]Kolto Recharge[/size][/color] [color="DeepSkyBlue"] When ever an ability yields a critical result you regenerate .5% of your maximum health. [/color] Kolto Recharge in it's current Form is really... really, a waste of a talent point. It's required to get higher in the tree and does relatively nothing as Tactics is a highly efficient tree, hardly needing to use Recharge Cells (I can't say the same for the Commando mirror). Not to mention it drags out the paltry amount of health regeneration over 10 seconds. Feel free to criticize this idea as you see fit, play nice! WARNING: YOU WILL BE CRITICIZED. Incase someone whines about it... I also intend to be criticized. ~Myxam Edits

Considering this thread is for PvE, defense chance and player abilities have no bearing on answering the question of the OP as PvE Enemies have neither. Please, please make certain you're paying attention to thread before you make your comments, speaking on the wrong subject is a great way to give people the wrong impression. *Back on-topic* Of course, "better safe than sorry," is a fine stance to take when it comes to the unknown. But as observations I've made, and asking others, Accuracy is overall worthless gear stat. The point to percentage ratio is extremely high (at 39 of course +18 on all my armor pieces gives me a 2% difference, which makes the ratio -about- 54/1) and a lack of accuracy has shown almost no change. As it stands, it seems 90% is hardly missing any target at least two levels over you, and at the moment, there are no mobs over level 50 in operations, which makes for a lack of use. In fact, of the enemies that have been found, only one breaks level 50, and he is friendly to both factions. To give my point some weight, I'll list the stat-to-change ratios of the rest of the non-tanking stats (that I can find calculations for): Of course the lack of information on Accuracy is missing, it's easy to see that the other stats have a higher rate of change.

Lord Adraas if I remember right was the "RP-Mega Server" designated by Swtor-RP.com and on the Republic, there's usually 5-10 people in the Nar Shaddaa or Republic Fleet Cantina, and there are TONS of guilds abound. If you need a hand settling in, whisper me, I'm usually on one of the two characters listed below.

Master Evelynne Whitemantle :3

The Hypocrisy covering this thread is reaching the level of unbearable. We're discussing Compromise, Communication and Courtesy where is it? Darth_Slaine I suggest you learn to practice your opinions before you preach them. You have been rather stubborn in what you wrote, as if you believe it is the bible of RPers. You also bear no mention of the other half of being apart of a community, making Compromises with the whole. You joined this community, and you make your contributions, others compromise with you, but you have not in the multitude of posts I've come across. Verisimilitude applies to OOC as well as IC, as does Compromise.

It seems over the course these few months, Roleplayers have once against divided. The Traditionalists and the Mannered clash, with seemingly no grey area in between. Perhaps the answer to this is a compromise, rather than an absolution... The ideal of that there is one set of rules to follow when it comes to RP is a farce and a contradiction, as RP itself is a compromise. The Answer here is not one or the other but both. As members of this community and partners in this reality we shape it is our duty to be polite and guide one another towards a balance. Socialism it may sound, but humanity it is. Nothing is gained from conflict, especially not from one like this. We must communicate, compromise, and maintain the coherence of the Lore that is set in stone, everything else is ours to shape. What are your thoughts?

From what I saw, they joined of their own accord, at least in the TWO testimonies I saw while skimming this thread. It's everyone's responsibility to maintain coherence of Lore and quality of Roleplay. Cybering is not included in that. See above. Their behavior is completely against ESTABLISHED Jedi Lore of a Padawan/Initiate's responsiblities. A compromise is made yes, but what of these players? Apparently from what's been posted they were unwilling to make ANY compromise, and this is the point where it's our responsibility to maintain coherence. In my honest opinion, Versimilitude, is the only thing that keeps our RP in Star Wars, without it, what would we have? Goldshire on Moonguard ring any bells? Obviously I made an example of the most extreme situation possible, and I did it with good reason. What is keeping someone from defying lore for the sake of their own immature delight without a community to guide them? NOTHING. Lore is what makes the RP, it is in all sense of the statement, everything, and conforming to it only brings us closer to the same universe, which honestly, creates better roleplay. However, far be it from me to tell someone "No they can't drink blood and sparkle in the sunlight," If that's your fantasy do it. But not in a place where others are not so like-minded or accepting, and this type of behavior, was clearly not accepted. My message is simple "There is a place for everything" but the place for this roleplay described by the OP, is not here. Blatant disregard for consequences of your actions is labelled as insanity in several cases, and I would not go so far as to call these 'Padawans' complete Idiots. Arguing in favor of them only gives them free-reign to Cyber with each in less and less private places before, BAMSHA-ZAM! We have Goldshire in Space. Arguing Meta-gaming is also rather futile if the players made no efforts to conceal their status ICly or OOCly, and in such a game as this, Meta-gaming to some degree is unavoidable. As it's described it sounds as if they were decked out in that overly popular chest piece that displays ample mid-riff, which is Jedi Wardrobe. If they were Grey, they would have treated the Master with more respect, not worn a title. Forsaking the Order does not mean forsaking sensibilities and reason. If they were Dark Side Jedi, the easiest response would be to antagonize the Master without causing a scene, or just ignoring him. But to spring to insults and rebellious screams at the drop of a hat is obviously a sign of someone seeking conflict or too immature to see other ways. For TL:DR, I want you! To make a difference in your RP community today!

It is useful past 100%, it lowers resistance to all damage types (on your target) but the rate at which it climbs is so meager it may as well be negligible. As it stands, Surge to 70%, Power, at least for Vanguards, where crits are almost promised by their tree.