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Selenial

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    The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    It's upsetting me that Zoltan isn't answering my loaded question.

     

    Anyway, to dispel that ridiculous rumor of Yoda's feat being a control feat, here's actual context (I know right).

     

    Yoda had faced the assembled students and spoken, his thin reedy voice somehow carrying to the far corners of the lecture hall without benefit of amplifiers.

     

    "Better than training, the Force is. More than experience or speed it gives."

     

    And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council-Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Bil-laba, excellent fighters all-had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him. The lesson had struck powerfully home: Knowledge of the Force was infinitely better than technique.

    The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    Yoda also roughly matched Sidious in augmentation and precog (battle related), because of their apparent stalemate.

     

    Yoda's Control feat analogous to Sidious blitzing Tiin and Kolar:

     

    And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council-Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters all-had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him. The lesson had struck powerfully home: Knowledge of the Force was infinitely better than technique.

    —Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

     

    Prove to me this was control, or blitzing. The passage literally says "his tread slow and measured." It seems far more like a telekinetic technique than anything, none of that passage whatsoever suggests he beat the **** out of them :confused:

     

    Yoda could even sense Sidious:

     

    Yoda stretched out farther, immersing himself fully in the Force - - only to feel his breath catch in his throat. Frigid, the current became. Arctic. And for the first time he could feel Sidious. Feel him on Coruscant!

    —Labyrinth of Evil

     

    And that was when the jedi's senses were clouded:

     

    “Masking the future is this disturbance in the Force,” Yoda replied. The diminutive Jedi seemed tired. Mace understood well the source of that weariness. “The prophecy is coming true. The dark side is growing.”

    “And only those who have turned to the dark side can sense the possibilities of the future,” Yoda said. “Only by probing the dark side can we see."

     

    “Do you think the Sith are behind this present disturbance?” Mace dared to ask.

    “Out there, they are,” Yoda said with resignation. “A certainty that is.”

    —Attack of the Clones novelization

     

    War itself pours darkness into the Force, deepening the cloud that limits Jedi perception.

    —Revenge of the Sith novelization

    Shame even with the force imbalance that these are nowhere near Sidious' sense feats. Real shame.

    Lastly Yoda is Sidious' peer even by accolades:

     

    Yoda's knowledge of the Force makes him just as powerful as Darth Sidious.

    —Star Wars: Mysteries of the Jedi

     

    Did you seriously just try and use an accolade that says Yoda could only compete because of a superior knowledge, to prove they have equal force reserves/power? :rak_02:

    The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Selenial

    I would disagree personally, problem with comparing Valk and Yoda, and Jedi & Sith in general is that they have, especially at this level, very few analogous powers. For example we have nothing to compare Valkorion's Force lightning, planetary drain feats and immortality with in Yoda, who just hasn't explored these powers. But considering Yoda has engaged in a direct contest of strength with Palpatine, we have an effective measuring stick.

     

    I think if we establish exactly how powerful Yoda is in comparison to Sidious, we can use ROTS Sidious as a proxy to compare him to Valkorion.

     

    P.S. Me and Aurbere had a discussion about Prime Yoda, and we decided it was probably best to judge ROTS Yoda seeing as Prime Yoda's capabilities are for the most part totally speculative.

    Which is a huge double standard. He's competed with Sidious in the sphere of Telekinesis and held off his Force Lightning. That really does not mean they're comparable in the force, merely those areas of combat.

     

    Jedi and Sith excel in different areas of the Force. Surik was talented in Control, hardly comparable in Alter. Traya has some of the greatest Sense feats we've seen in the Mythos, but she's not up there in Alter or Control. To suggest Yoda and Sidious have equal force powers because they were a match in Telekinesis and Lightning is flawed to say the least, again, an expanded comparison needs to be made.

    The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    I've got Valkorion around ROTJ Sidious level, personally.

     

    I question why the **** it's relevant. To suggest that Valkorion < ROTS Sidious therefore he's below Yoda is ludicrous. If you're going to opt for a feat based thread then you should stick to that, instead of letting Yoda hide behind the fact he's often considered a peer of Sidious as of ROTS. A comparison against Sidious is irrelevant if we don't place Valkorion above DE Sidious since we're taking his strongest incarnation for this list.

     

    I suggest doing a comparison of Yoda and Valkorion in greater depth, and then addressing the motion that Yoda wasn't in his prime. Personally I used to entertain that notion, but I've been having second thoughts.

    The REAL Most Powerful Force Users - Rebooted

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    Valkorion > Yoda too tbh.

     

    And yeh I'd rather get this list over with so we can start on one that includes spirits and entities, or the Jedi and Sith specific list...

     

    I personally have Vader > Starkiller, but we need Revan above them both IMO.

     

    And finally, Shaak survived a blaster bolt, Tutaminis'd lightsabers and ragdolled Starkiller with Kinetite just like Valkorion and Arcann, they're obviously the same tier :jawa_redface:

    SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Runner's Up Bracket

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    So we're looking to get this back on track, can anyone who is supposed to be competing now or next round please check in?

     

    I would also appreciate anyone who went out in previous rounds to shoot me a PM or notify us here that you're available, as we could be looking to you to fill in any spare slots we may have.

     

    Thanks for the patience as well, guys.

    Darth Maul vs Lumiya

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    SOD Maul vs Prime Lumiya

     

    Battleground: Sundari Palace Throne Room

     

    Bonus Round: Maul gets Savage Opress as backup

    Lumiya confronts Maul in his throne room, all have full use of their abilities and weapons. Who wins?

     

    NOTE: Please provide reasoning for you're opinion to spark some argument, no one word answers.

     

    At least make it look like you haven't already decided, Beni :p

     

    Agreed with Silenceo, except I'd lean his argument even further towards Maul. In my opinion, Maul is considerably more skilled than Lumiya is, her LightWhip is her greatest advantage by far. I struggle to believe that in all of Maul's martial training (which was basically his life) he didn't encounter something similar. Especially given the fact he is of Dathomiri descent, this seems right up his alley.

     

    I think sans the element of surprise and the advantage her whip gives her, Lumiya takes it.

    An in-depth look at: The Rule of Two's effect on the Jedi Order

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    Actually....

     

    "That had been the case with the Jedi Order. For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it. The Sith were pleased by the fact that the Jedi, too, had been allowed to grow so powerful, because, in the end, their sense of entitlement would blind them to what was occurring in their midst."

    Darth Zannah runs a power-duellist gauntlet

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    I do also want to point out that the wrath is very underrated. A lot of people like to gush about Nox but people very quickly discount Drahg. Despite Drahg's personality he's one of the few people in SWTOR who has one shotted a dark council member. Vowrawn was rendered absolutely helpless to his superior force abilities. The wrath had no problem crushing Drahg like a bug either. No, I'm not using this as evidence that Wrath is more powerful than Zannah but as a form of question. Is Zannah even capable of one shotting dark council members like that?

    I'd like to preface this by saying this Dark Council Member was about to be solo'd by a nameless Bounty Hunter, admitting he stood no chance.

     

    But yes, yes she could. Not to mention it was Drahg's cybernetics that allowed him to do it, while Zannah could manage it with her own sorcery.

    Darth Zannah runs a power-duellist gauntlet

    in STAR WARS Discussion

    Posted

    Forgot to add:

     

    NOTE: Please provide reasoning for you're opinion to spark some argument, no one word answers.

     

    :jawa_evil:

     

    Not sure what school you're at but that seemed like more than one word to me ;)

     

    Well, in terms of round 1, Zannah's an underrated duelist. She's skilled, not anywhere near as skilled as many attempt to argue her to be, but she's strong and resilient. The Wrath simply isn't skilled enough to break through her barriers before slipping up, neither is Malgus (a drastically overrated duelist, for the record). Qel Droma however is a formidable and phenomenal blademaster, I don't see Zannah stacking up.

     

    However setting this on Ambria and allowing her sorcery really tips the balance in her favour, hugely. All she has to do is hold off her enemies with her defensive style long enough to eviscerate their minds or attack them with Dark Side Tendrils. It'll carry her inferior bladework through to even killing Anakin, but it won't save her against Vader in my opinion, he's too durable and a far superior duelist.

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