The asterisk on the thread title will make sense when you see the end of the video. http://www.twitch.tv/fridge_sa/c/2421395 Our comp: Tahiri (Tank, Assassin) Enkay (Tank, Juggernaut) Apoplexie (Heals, Sorcerer) Turtle (Heals, Sorcerer) Deeps (Carnage, Marauder) Devasta (Annihilation, Marauder) Dominion (Arsenal, Mercenary) Rhomea (Lethality, Sniper) So, concerning the fight itself: the Terror and his tentacles all have a good deal more HP compared to PTS and the tentacles hit harder. Your DPS really needs to be on the ball the entire fight long. Unstable larva seem to have less HP but move faster so DPS needs to switch quickly. Like on the PTS, you cannot go into four tentacle phases in phase 1 or the Terror and the tentacles will enrage and it's a wipe. In phase 2, the big change is that anomalies do not disappear during the irregularity phase, so the DPS assigned to them has to stay out and keep killing them to ensure they don't zap the whole raid to death. I can't really comment on the way we killed the boss, as you can hear in the video we had no idea that the Terror would suddenly lose 20% hp and die at 2%. If this was intended as the way the boss was supposed to be killed, I'll be very surprised. Good luck in progression!

http://www.twitch.tv/fridge_sa/c/2421370 Our comp: Tahiri (Tank, Assassin) Enkay (Tank, Juggernaut) Apoplexie (Heals, Sorcerer) Turtle (Heals, Sorcerer) Deeps (Carnage, Marauder) Devasta (Annihilation, Marauder) Dominion (Arsenal, Mercenary) Rhomea (Lethality, Sniper) So Bioware changed a few things with this fight - Kephess has more HP and hits harder first of all. The yellow circle, as far as I can tell, still does nothing other than indicate how close the boss has to be to get stacks from the tower. Mechanics wise there's 1 extra white orb in phase 1. The more important part of the fight is phase 2, however - lots more nanites go out, sometimes all at once, and they come more often. The most important part of the fight is managing nanites and towers in phase 2, to the point that it's likely a wipe (or at least a waste of battle res) if one person misses a channel when nanites are called. As you might be able to hear, we start the channel whenever someone gets 3 stacks. He's not as big a pushover as he was in PTS but we didn't spend a lot of time on him before he died. Good luck in progression!

See above: if we're this bad why did we beat you to warstalker? If we're not the real DNT what is this gallery doing on our website: http://www.dtguilds.com/dntgallery/m/6563285/album/75507 Are you this delusional? Or do all your brains go flying out your ears when you're not on your fiefdom on mmo champion?

Aerroh, your entire post indicates you haven't watched the video with anything approaching reasonable attention and your reading comprehension sucks. You haven't, but you have said things that indicate you don't understand the differences between the two raid sizes. Specifically, you compared the numbers you're capable of generating to ours, when you're in a situation where your raiders have to move far less than ours because you have at least double our healing but your players aren't being hit anywhere close to twice as hard. If your ranged dps is required to stack on Heirad because of healing I'll be very surprised. This is why I'm disregarding your opinion: you're trying to conflate your experience with something that is not alike it and you're completely missing the point of the thread. Players will not pull the same numbers in 8 man that they can in 16 for a number of reasons: positional requirements due to healing, less green motes during doom, higher chance of being targeted by dps-reducing effects (doom, marked for death), and so on. I'm also disregarding your opinion because you seem to think I'm supposed to bow down to your raiding accomplishments (that you don't list). I killed Kil'jaeden and LK Heroic 25 pre-expansion patches. I can't claim any firsts to my memory but I had a good raiding career in WoW - an infinitesimally small portion of the population accomplished those bosses before the wrath and cata patch respectively. I've been ranged dps for all my raiding career and I know what I'm doing - the attempt in the video was not perfect but all mechanics were executed to a point that a kill should have happened. It didn't because the enrage timer is too short. That's the message of this thread. I never claimed to be a member of WoW DNT. I also said I started raiding in 2006, I stopped in 2011. If your guildies can pull so much better numbers than ours, why did we get the server first/World 4th Warstalker and you didn't?

So despite all the drama I figured I'd link our kill video of Operator IX for people to watch and learn what's different from PTS. http://www.twitch.tv/fridge_sa/c/2417339 Our comp: Tahiri (Tank, Assassin) Enkay (Tank, Juggernaut) Apoplexie (Heals, Sorcerer) Turtle (Heals, Sorcerer) Deeps (Carnage, Marauder) Devasta (Annihilation, Marauder) Dominion (Arsenal, Mercenary) Rhomea (Lethality, Sniper) So right off the bat you'll notice the data cores have more HP than they did on PTS. This will make purple and yellow phases considerably more difficult to push but it's important you squeeze out as much dps as possible because of a new mechanic: If a core is missed and the master control NPC's channel finishes, it will one-shot the entire raid in a massive AoE attack (it will still send out a rectifier, pointlessly). Phase 1's adds, I'm told by our tanks and healers, hit harder than they did on PTS and the smaller adds on blue and purple phases now additionally have an instant knockback. Other than these changes the fight is largely the same as on the PTS. Numbers were tweaked to make phase 1 more difficult and that's about it. Good luck in progression!

rofl Okay, for 2.5 seconds with bloodthirst and an adrenal when your tracer missile or whatever crits, you'll have 4800 dps. Super useful to know, thanks, good luck sustaining that. wrong, the enrage timer is too short, and we're putting out perfectly reasonable numbers for an 8 man group. The issue is the boss is tuned to be impossible with current enrage timer. For a 16 man with double the healing but not double the incoming damage and with less of a chance of being targeted by effects that force the player to move, sure (also it wasn't 2400). For an 8 man it's pretty much in line with what can be expected. If I move it's because the boss uses a knockback. I'm in range to be hit by the knockback because healing is so tight in 8 man that I need to be in a sorc puddle and in range for recuperative nanotech. The only other time I move for lightning field is when I roll to avoid damage. Don't know who you're talking about here, but it's not me. It's not excuses, it's the realities of 8 man. You're not going to be pulling the same numbers when you have half (or less if you're running 5) the amount of healers because you will have to heavily adjust your strategy to compensate - I guarantee you our players are not being hit half as hard as yours. Here's my challenge to you: try 8 man tonight and come try to justify your previous position. I'd caution against speaking from your high horse if you don't know the playing experience of people you're talking to. I've been raiding since 2006-7 with a pretty good resume in WoW, DNT has raiders who have been raiding longer than that and I guarantee our GM has better raiding "credentials" (if you want to call them that) than you do. We all used our judgment guided by experience to say this fight was undoable, or so close to it as to make our efforts wasted this week. You coming here and trying to conflate your 16 man experience with ours in 8 man doesn't hold a lot of weight. Sorry.

If you're breaking 4-5k dps at the beginning of the fight, something I'll note you aren't providing evidence for, the tanks are positioning the other bosses in aoe (orbitals) and ignoring the synergy mechanic, indicating that that portion of 16 man is trivially easy compared to 8 man. Wow, it's almost like what I've been saying the last few posts is true, and 16 and 8 man are not as similar as you seem to think. Do you actually think getting more green motes is worse for dps? I would kill for more green motes in 8 man so that we could clear doom faster. If you watched the stream you'd notice that I'm not just sitting around with my thumb up my butt and that almost every global is being used efficiently, save for when I'm trying not to lock myself out of rolling to avoid lightning field damage. If your players are doing more damage, it's because the mechanics (and logistics) of 16 man are easier and are allowing them to.

You don't get to justify it if you haven't experienced it. Go do 8 man and come tell us your experience. I will be very surprised if they manage similar numbers because, as others and I have indicated, the experience is very different from 16 man.

Apparently you think the video was made as like, a highlight of our performance rather than a demonstration of the fight's impossibility given current gear levels. You're welcome to pour over the past broadcast at http://www.twitch.tv/fridge_sa/b/416034258 if you want to see better examples of my/our dps (2900-3000 parses etc). That's not what this thread is about. This thread was created in the hopes of getting a developer response to something clearly broken - something you have not experienced. The two raid sizes offer a far more varied experience than you seem to be aware of. We didn't create the topic for 16 man because we can't speak for 16 man.

Fixed that for you.

It's pretty weak if you're just standing around doing nothing but DPS. Did you watch the video? Does the video indicate to you that I was in a position to turret?

Thank you for giving the entire thread more reason to ignore every post you've ever made by proving you didn't watch the video with any reasonable amount of attention. That's my video. I'm the only sniper in the ops group. There is no hybrid sniper and no evidence of a hybrid sniper. Enemy debuffs clearly show a tracer missile on every boss the entire duration of the video, and the two marauders are plainly visible for most of the fight. Furthermore, like someone who knows what they're doing, I avoid multidotting that fight because it'll buff the bosses and make the healers' jobs harder. As well, I was the first dps to die to the enrage (40k+ wither application), so naturally my dps will fall because of the way Mox works. At the time of death my dps was over 2500. This is not "aoe heavy" and you don't get to assign what you think my "real" effective dps is, because doing so makes you sound like you know literally nothing about how lethality works and the numbers it can pull on single target. I'll be the first to admit I did not play perfectly (because nobody can.) I'm certainly capable of better, but the argument made by the video is that we made almost no mechanical mistakes and our DPS was good, but the boss enrages anyway because the timer is completely out of step with what player capabilities are at this gear level.

Just for the history lesson, shadow priests too. Warlocks were better though, because their blindfolded dps move was an execute.

If the bosses enraged 5 seconds after pull, would you call that a tight enrage that just requires everyone to play better?

No you can't, and no it isn't.

A lot of them are in California for the cantina tour.

We want the fight to remain unchanged outside of an extension to the enrage timer. You can be technical and call that a nerf but I don't think the boss is killable at current gear levels without such a change.

It isn't when it highlights your objections as stemming from resentment over making a mistake.

Except it was first. Like I said, I think we made the right call, and that call has given us a leg up. You could've done the same. FTFY

One thread full of 5-6 people posting the same thing over and over != "community consensus."

Thanks for assigning our motivations to us. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter so I know what I'm going to have for dinner this evening. My position needs no defense. We killed Operator IX before you. You're not going to kill the Dread Guards. In the end you will follow our path or waste your lockout. This would be fine with me in a game with no obviously broken bosses. We're competing in the game as it exists right now, not what it could be as an ideal. As a result, judgment calls like the one we made factor in to the competition. I'm sorry but I think you made the wrong one.

The little voice in their head is not rational. The boss is very much broken and time would be better spent in almost any other endeavor. We chose to spend it by progressing through things that are killable - something they were perfectly capable of doing themselves, but chose not to out of fear. That could be fear of offending the "honorable" scene on display in this thread, fear that a sudden hotfix for the fight would be inbound, or, least sympathetically, fear that the boss in its current state is doable. We judged that it was not. You could have too, but you decided instead to run a race on a hamster wheel. Your loss.

Nobody whose opinion matters is doing anything of the sort. From my perspective, the people who are upset about this are people who didn't have the stones to make the same judgment call we did, and now they've missed their opportunity to compete with us (for one boss). By all means, feel free to continue beating your heads into the wall until the 11th hour on Monday when you'll have less time to do bosses that are actually killable.

That idiom does not mean what you seem to think it means. You'll be singing a different tune come Monday when you haven't beaten the DG.

Or you could just admit Bioware made a mistake and skip a boss I'm confident nobody will beat without an enrage timer extension or very significant gear upgrades. We didn't do anything you're not perfectly capable of doing, unless you're worried you can't kill Operator.