I think you've missed the mark a little bit, mate. "Game evolution" and "sandbox design" are not mutually exclusive concepts. OP has two concepts here that play a critical role in MMORPG's (for me, and many gamers): 1) Options. The player should be excited and compelled to choose a way of exploring the world, be it killing, stealing, PvPing, exploring, or crafting ... in groups, or solo (more benefits for groups, clearly). MMOs, at their finest, are not railroads. 2) Chaos. My nostalgia MMO is Asheron's Call, and I remember that every time you improved or dyed an item (through crafting) there was a chance that the crafter would botch it, and the item would be ruined (stats ruined, dyed a weird color, or destroyed completely). This made every crafting attempt gut wrenching. However it's implemented, players should feel that there are very real stakes in the game world. MMOs should include unpredictability. These concepts are very viable, despite the evolution of the MMO market. I eagerly await the game that captivates attention like AC / EQ / UO / DAOC / SWG did ... part of the reason that those first gen MMOs were so astounding was because they were *innovative*. Now that it's an industry that's been dominated by one game, we are going to see ripoffs for awhile. Eventually, somebody will come along and do something new.

Even if you never see this, I still feel inclined to respond. My post was in no way intended to "force others" to play the game the way I enjoy it. In fact, spamming /who is not my favorite way to pass the time either. Instead, my post was meant to encourage those who wish to form groups and are finding it difficult to do. I was only submitting my experience and advice to help facilitate group making in a game without an easy go-to LFG system. Your critique of the details of my post is fairly spot on, but you misunderstood the spirit of my post entirely.

This should help to quell your anxieties, Clova. Most people don't mind being interrupted (in fact, I find most people welcome it), as long as you are polite.

Well put. My experience with death penalties stems more from Asheron's Call (where you would drop the top 5 or so most expensive items in your inventory on your corpse ... which could be looted by other players in a PvP realm ... keep in mind, most "expensive" does not necessarily mean "best"). The result was similar to that of what you're describing here in EQ, and even though Lagerale is lamenting the tribulations of stiff death penalties ... at least he started with "I remember" ... which is something to be said in of itself. Yes, it was hard, and it was frustrating, but that frustration culminates in the sensation of sweet, sweet victory when things finally went your way. tl;dr: No pain, no gain.

Well said. As the genre grows, it will inevitably splice off into variants of the "MMO" theme. I like the way you classified ToR as an "Online RPG" -- that feels right to me. I don't think I went so far as to say this game was "failboat". In fact, I said that I am enjoying ToR! I only wanted to draw attention to some of the areas where MMOs have excelled in the past, and hope that ToR might someday incorporate these ideas (couldn't hurt!).

I can sympathize with not wanting to cold-call people because of negative responses. I, too, have gotten more than my fair share of "*** dude no" and other colorful variations. ... I try to kill these people with kindness / humor from the get go. If you are just whispering people "hey lf1m cademimu", you're not going to get very far. Instead, try: "Good morning! My three sexy female college friends and I are looking for a buff, beefy tank to absorb **** tons of damage for us in Cademimu! I'm also a nearly pathological liar! Seriously though we need a tank. Interested?" Copy paste that to ten tanks, and one of them will bite. Or not. ::shrug:: If not, it only took you six minutes anyway ... it's better than sitting around in /1.

I see where you're coming from, and BW definitely made a choice to emphasize story, but I don't think strong story lines and support for exploration are mutually exclusive. You could have the exact same story lines in place, with a primary rail-road feeling plot to it, while also rewarding players for going off the beaten path (rare mobs / more dynamic loot tables / rare crafting mats). I guess I am pushing for a more sand-boxy feel that I believe is a staple for MMOs.

Good suggestion -- made a slight change to my title. My egocentricity is, as always, getting in the way!

I understand your anxieties ... but consider what *you're* reaction would be if someone whispered you out of the blue, looking to fill one last spot. Would you be upset that you'd been interrupted, or something? No! Especially not if you wanted to go! Also ... Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V will go a long way. Just whisper everyone that is the class you want. If they're not the right spec, they'll tell you.

So true. As much as I enjoyed WoW, it's a shame that Blizzard has inadvertently created a template for MMOs that stymies deviation. Eventually, designers will have no choice but to innovate, and I'm just hoping that they do it right!

I have read an insane number of posts begging for some form of LFG system. It is my contention that a LFG system serves only to undermine the sense of community in a game like ToR. My advice for those of you who are having trouble finding a group: Use /who, and use it wisely. All you need to do is be polite. "Hello there! We are looking for a <tank/healer/DPS> for <insert flashpoint>. Would you be interested in joining us?" You wouldn't believe how many groups I've filled with this simple request. There are *plenty* of people out there who are eager to run FP's, and they will jump at the chance to run one ... the worst that can happen is that they say "No, but thanks for the invitation!", and you move on. Why this is not standard practice is beyond me, but if you take the time to make it a habit, you will never be groupless. Using /1 will only get you so far (people are in different zones, doing different things, not paying attention to /1), but friendly whispers get you much further.

I feel that the genre of MMORPGs has been imperceptibly but steadily drifting away from the paradigm that made them so successful to begin with. I am currently enjoying ToR, but more as a single player game where I can see other people playing their single player games ... not an MMO. I want to highlight a few features of a authentic MMOs, in hopes that the next generation of MMOs will breathe fresh life into this industry. 1) Death penalties. MMORPG players, like all gamers, enjoy the feeling of overcoming challenging obstacles ... but this sensation can only be capitalized on if there is a real and definite risk involved. If a player is not penalized in any meaningful way, than the game begins to feel hollow and inconsequential. Death penalties do not have to be insurmountable, but they should be stiff enough to make the player feel the looming presence of death. Dropping items / gold on death (with or without the option to corpse run) is a popular mechanic, as well as EXP reduction. Free respawn at the exact place of death is horrendously detrimental to the game. I realize that death penalties carry the risk of being incredibly frustrated at your misfortune, but that is what makes victory all the sweeter. 2) Exploration. An MMORPG should be a completely immersive world where wanton exploration is rewarded. A player should feel encouraged to plumb the depths of any old dungeon he or she stumbles across, on the off chance that he or she will be compensated for time spent. Railroaded quest lines do *not* encourage this style of play. I can't even begin to tell you how sick I am of running from one glowing green dot to the next. Datacrons, to some extent, support this cause, but not to the point where I feel I can travel in a random direction and enjoy my time spent. One way of ensuring exploration is having mobs drop mats (even at a very low percentage) required for top tier trade skill recipes. I'm not saying the last boss in a hard dungeon ... I'm talking about normal mobs. This gives the sense that, even if the percentage is small, there is a chance that I will be compensated (with something other than credits) for killing this mob. 3) Inter-dependence. We play MMORPG's to feel like we are part of a larger community. Trade skills should demand input from other players to be truly successful, top tier gear should require cooperation (not just grinding), and players should be constantly rewarded for grouping with one another. 4) Customization. I can't stress this enough. The more options for giving your character an individual personality, the better. Putting everyone in the exact same looking end game gear is absolute insanity. Maybe I am just going through a fit of nostalgia (as a former Asheron's Call / DAoC player), but I felt inclined to put my ramblings somewhere. Thanks for reading, and please contribute your thoughts!