nodq
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Posts posted by nodq
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I agree wholeheartedly with this, but my question is - if Operative burst is nerfed, what advantages do they bring to the table in PvP or PvE that the Sith Assassin does not already possess? This is especially relevant considering SA's have a better mobility and tankability.
More fun and better gameplay? I have both at lvl50 with pvp gear. And assassine is 2 button mashing, just boring. Ops are little bit more complex. One reason is you can off heal. TA managing is fun, too. What do assassine have? Taunt here and there, thats it. And stalth is useless for assassine, just gives you force regen for 6 sec. spike is useless.
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Im shocked that still some ppl do HS then directly BS, instead of HS+AB -> Shiv -> BS+AB
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i see no difference actually. feels same like before. still choppy gameplay and not very fluid.
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Throw away the collected statistics, before rebalancing classes. All of the statistics collected so far are based on a shoddy bolster system. I was in a full champion set (aside from helm) before the level 50 bracket was created. Did I go after the players in their teen levels first? Yes, because they can still knockback/stun/slow just as effectively as their higher level counterparts.
Did I target those in their mid-forties after the teens? Yes, because the bolster system is terribly balanced. These people generally have the fewest hitpoints, because the bolster system gives them very little in the way of a stat adjustment, but they are most likely to have several items worn that are the most out of date (An level 25 implant here, a complete lack of relics, maybe...) and yet they have all of their abilities. I can see that they have 12k hitpoints..why wouldn't I hit them with my first hidden strike? A couple days ago I was in an alderaan match against a consular with 10k hitpoints. Why *wouldn't* kill this person every chance I had, as early as possible. The upcoming nerf would not have prolonged her life at all.
Juggernaughts did not need the buff they received, but likely received a buff for these exact reasons. Sure, they're unkillable in a full champion set, but the grand majority of players aren't even level 50 when class balancing starts. Why pay attention to the outliers - who have been playing the most? Meanwhile, Assassins and Bounty Hunters get more of their defensiveness from their talents, and so don't notice their gear upgrades as much.
As a Battlemaster Concealment Operative, the only situations that I see "Players dying too quickly" involve five factors:
1: I have just finished a fight with a backstab, so my acid blade buff is running.
2: I have left combat after that fight (therefore, I haven't received a heal, or gotten hit by a secondary player), so I can restealth. Hidden strike with acid blade buff is great!
3: A secondary target is within range of me, stealthed and with acid blade buff, for a hidden strike. (Hope they aren't a Merc/Trooper healer, or a tank.. or a sorcerer with the stun-bubble...)
4: I have full energy for the hidden strike on my new target, before the old acid blade wears off.
5: Most of my early rotation crits (Especially hidden strike and backstab).
I can guarentee that this happens a LOT less frequently than another class can knock someone into a fire or off a bridge, or improved-grappled into the acid - something that isn't gear dependant, causes "Players to die too quickly", and was even more forseeable. I'd estimate once every two or three huttball matches, I see all five factors come together perfectly.
Even if the statistics show (Somehow, through all of the bolster garbage, and animation bugs preventing players from CCing me when I pop out of stealth) that Hidden Strike deals too much damage. Why nerf acid blade's buff by 40% of the effectiveness, when I have never had an instant-kill as described above against anyone in heavy armor?
I am over-geared for my server, but I definitely struggle the most against the exact classes that this is a nerf against. Not to mention the fact that I'd like to continue progression in raids when they come out.
Toss out the stats, revert juggernauts to launch abilities, and let's see what the game is like after the bolster system is stable, animation bugs aren't the cause of most imbalance (especially snipers), and . Don't balance me against someone who hasn't opened their first champion bag. Don't balance me against a "bolstered" level 12 or 42. Certainly don't balance me against people who are getting an animation bug.
I'm playing a class with little-to-no CC. My output *should* be more than an assasin's, right? I looked at the abilities lists available during the beta, and chose the class for exactly this reason. The developers had to be aware of the output of hidden strike and acid blade before this. Why else is there an artificial full resolve bar on jarring strike and sleep dart? And why reduce the effectiveness of the abilities that are most helpful against my exact counter-classes?
None of the class balancing makes any sense. It seems like a knee-jerk reaction to statistics, and forum posts by players who are complaining about something without understanding how terrible their gear is - and how easy it is to get better gear.
You forget the root and JS. I luved to knockdown ppl running through fire then i root or knockdown them and they die. Yous eem very ignorant on showing other ppls stuff where they can "one shot" others but dont mention ours. Your logic is flawed.
And no, aas this is a MMO, you could also say, that OPs can heal, so they HAVE to do less DMG than assassines. Because they can not heal themself.
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Nope, enjoy your class at the level of everyone else.
Ah cool so after patch i can stand there and spam 1 buttona nd kill everyone on 30y range like every ****head BH/Trooper? Great, waited for smth like this.
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The only problem i have with the nerfs is, that they actually make the JS talent useless. Not only because it was fun move, but it will be counter productive to skill that with 1,5 seconds. IF resolvebar keeps the same after it. Hell even if resolvebar will be 50% less, its still dumb to skill into it imho.
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Our current opener is as follows.
Hidden Strike (HS) with Jarring Strike(JS) and Acid Blade(AB) -> Backstab(BS) -> Shiv -> (Target has escaped CC, and is immune to further CC at this point) -> Lacerate(LC)
That means on average, ignoring armor and the possibility of crits, we currently do:
2434 + 1576 + 1617 + 1534 + 1545 = 8706 damage
Again, before armor, and NOT including crits, buffs, debuffs or talents.
Fixed: HS with JS and AB -> Shiv -> Backstab with AB -> etc.
Does more DMG especially if you count in that the enemy does not break JS instantly. Why would you give up 50% of AB dot?
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Wollt ich nur mal kundtun, weil ja doch viele hier am meckern sind. Manches vielleicht zu Recht, anderes vielleicht nicht...keine Ahnung.
Mir machen die BG`s noch richtig Laune, aber ich zock ja auch nicht 24/7 PvP und bin erst Lev 41. Find die BG`s auch nicht annähernd WoW abgekupfert und ich bin recht sicher, dass da auch noch was nachgereicht werden wird, mit der Zeit. Zudem find ichs auch äusserst gut, dass die 50er fettquippten ihre eigenen BG`s haben genau richtig.
Für nen 1 Monat altes Spiel gibts eigentlich für viele Geschmäcker viel zu tun und zu erforschen.
Dass man nicht alle zufriedenstellen kann, ist völlig normal, und dass es hauptsächlich die 24/7 Roxxor sind, die nun über fehlenden Content jammern, weil sie schon alles durchgesuchtet haben, oder weil noch nicht genug 50er für ständige PvP BG`s vorhanden sind, juckt mich derzeit nicht die Bohne
BGs? Welche BGs, ich sehe nur Huttball... seit der Frei Monat vorbei ist kommt nochmal mehr Huttball als ohnehin schon kam.
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My Sources tell me, that if a player named Igraat leaves the game, we will all get 5 new Warzones and a massive buff to OPs. And all sorcerer will shoot noodles instead of lightning then.
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illum is actuli fun now, wel in the more populated servers - constant node swtiches and fighting to hold the middle - this is after the quickfix btw
Fun? I never see any rep players in Ilum. And if i see one, 100 empire players role over 10 rep players. Thats not PvP and thats clearly not fun.
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lol,
I actually want to play hutball. keep getting the other two WZ way to much.
lol
"These are the rules of huttball".. lol love that.
When you have ONLY huttball every day for WEEKS on lvl50, maybe 2 or 3 other Warzones a day. Then you wouldnt love it, trust me. Im also sick of playing against same faction all the time.
BW failed so hard at this. AION did that great, they locked the Servers if one faction had more than 4% than the other, and reopened it when it was again 50/50. You had really really really good balance between factions in AION on almost every Server. At least in the EU.
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Since some days it has become even worse. 50 Warzones, and 45 out of it are Huttball... thats just stupid ****. I really hope they do something about it, because im sick of huttball, it sucks, it sucks really. Playing ONE *********** WZ all the time as a PvP player is just no content at all. And no, i am not rerolling rep on my Server, Then i will never get huttball but can never finish Ilum Missions....
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Ich als Assassine tank sage ja auch schon seit einiger zeit das da was geändert werden muss. ich habe zudem auch einen Saboteur auf 50, ich kenne also beide seiten.
aber die Unwissenheit die hier um sich schlägt ist ehrlich gesagt unglaublich.
Dauerstun? "Der" Messer Angriff soll generft werden? USw. usf.
Die Leute hier wissen nicht mal WOVON sie eigentlich reden oder was sie genau erledigt, noch WIE diese Klasse funktioniert... keiner sich mal damit auch nur ansatzweise auseinander gesetzt hat. Aber Hauptsache "NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF" schreien, obwohl man ganz offensichtlich gar keine Ahnung hat wovon man da eigentlich spricht, nicht wahr?
Änderungen waren notwendig, aber die jetzigen auf dem PTS sind zu viel des guten. Das macht die Klasse im PvP nahezu nutzlos und frustrierend denke ich.
Mal abgesehen vom PvE. Verstehe BW hier nicht, man macht scheinbar die selbe Scheiße wie Blizzard bei WoW.... zu viele Änderungen auf einmal, zu harte, oder aber Monate lang gar nichts. Nie den genauen Punkt treffen.
Bei Starcraft geht es doch auch irgendwie, da wird nach und nach geändert und man schaut sich erst die Änderungen an um dann evtl. weitere vor zu nehmen. Aber MMO Entwickler scheinen immer direkt 10 Keulen raus zu holen und schwingen diese über ihr Spiel.
Ich würde nur mal einige Schreihälse hier bitten sich mal mit gewissen Dingen auseinander zu setzen bevor man ins Forum eiert und rum meckert und nach Sachen verlangt wovon man nicht mal eine genaue Ahnung hat.
Die Konsequenzen für das Spiel als ganzes scheint ihr nicht zu betrachten, oder?
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Lowest played class? Um no, just no...
Ill I see now are low level agents EVERYWHERE. EVERYONES MAKING THEM NOW BECAUSE OF THE GOD MODE IN PVP...
Ops are out of control. Period. And trying to justify it anyway you want is going to change that fact.
Ops are OP.
stop beeing ignorant? there are more than 1 server you know... and on my server there are not many OPs. whoel day long you can see like 4-5 lvl50 on the fleet and like 3-5 low level.
But.... i see LOTS of and i mean L O T S of bounty hunters with 1 button specc, if its in the fleet or in Warzones, Troopers everywhere standing still not moving one single inch and spamming their 1 spell all the time.
BHs standing still on top in huttball spamming tracer all day long, doing 400k dmg at the end of the huttball round, with just spamming one button and still their team lose... but BHs are feeling good because they are skilled. lol
If there is something played very much, then its troopers and BHs.
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/lol
My only hope is that the nerf is over the top, so all the crazy valor/gear gains attained through the broken class become meaningless.
Cheers
They could remove acid blade and hidden strike completly, i would still play the class. get some clue, and remove your ignorance please.
what REALLY annoys me, is that there is no "nerf" to BHs/troppers with their ranged 1 button mashing ******** where they do lots of more dmg than every OP/scoundrel and at range... its just stupid, i feel like i am at WoW all over again balance patch wise.
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Actually, you need 4 buttons to kill someone. But guess what... its 4 times more than a BH needs to kill a entire team. Tracer tracer tracer tracer tracer tracer tracer BOOM 400k dmg
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nobody in this thread knows what im talking about
gg
sure.. i know. Just do not spam the button for maul. in a situation like this, press it once, if you press it more than once, it stutters and you never do the maul at the end... and then the enemy moved out of range.
i know you mash the button, otherwise this problem wouldn't occur.
But that is one of many reasons i stopped playing assassine (lvl 50 full pvp tank gear btw.)
it to procc/luck based and the ressource system is just crap on this class in this game, IMHO.
playing operative now, feels much more like a "rogue" from WoW, i sexpected that from the assassine, unfortunetly i was wrong.
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(My copied thread from PvP forums)
I'm an Operative, lvl50 on Hex Droid Server.
I'm fully champ geared other than legs and head, 500ish expertise and I can honestly admit I roll people under 50 with ease and in optimum conditions I easily dispatch lvl50s in equal gear.
So while I agree with some of the QQ about Op/Scoundrel being too strong, I think there is one single nerf that should be done for the health of this class and the pvp community.
The knockdown on Hidden Strike needs to go.
There should be a choice between CC and Damage, it should always be a concious decision by the player to either control or burst a target and not do both at once.
In the infamous WoW, Rogues had the choice of 3 openers:
- Cheap Shot (2sec stun, no dmg)
- Ambush (High dmg, no CC)
- Garrote (DoT, 2sec Silence)
In SWTOR, Ops/Scoundrels have one choice:
- Hidden Strike (High Dmg, 2sec knockdown and DoT(Acid blade))
Why do we have all three of the WoW rogues openers in a single attack? I don't want to be like Mercenaries that spam one button over and over to win, I'd like some level of finesse to the "rogue" archetype that is typically one of the highest skill ceiling classes in mmorpgs.
So as an appeal to Bioware from a geared lvl50 operative valour rank41, please consider the below change.
Step1 - Swap Acid Blade and Jarring Strike in the skill trees.
Step2 - Remove Acid blade as a skill, its a waste of keyboard real estate when its used on every Hidden strike and Backstab anyway.
Step3 - Change Acid blade to be a passive "Your hidden strike and Backstab abilities have a 50/100% chance to cause the target to be poisoned by your coated blades, dealing X dmg over Y seconds(0/2)"
Step4 - Turn Jarring Strike into the new 31pt ability, "Strike the target with the base of your blade, knocking them to the ground for 2 secs and granting you two applications of Tactical Advantage. Requires stealth, must be behind the target"
What this accomplishes is create a choice of controlling or bursting an opponent and replacing the Acid blade keybind with Jarring strike keybind. Creating an ability that is fun to push and not something you wish you could macro into your other skill presses. Its also the ability to get 2 stacks of TA instantly giving your greater out of stealth presence by having more use of Lacerate available and evening out our "burst then nothing" rotation.
TLDR: Read it all, your comments are worthless otherwise.
Thank you for reading.
Khrux
Cheapshot = 4 seconds, not 2.
Garrote = 3 seconds, not 2.
Hidden Strike with Talent = 3 seconds knockdown, not 2.
so first of all, get your facts right before posting. thanks.
then... Ambush = high dmg? Aha... erm, that was through all patches and addons of WoW different, in BC you didnt used Ambush AT ALL actually, as a rogue.
Operative already does a choice if he wants dmg or cc. he spents Talent Points to get the knockdown. But... i agree. the knockdown should be 2 seconds instead of 3. it is to much that you can do 2 moves (read 2 Global Cooldowns after knockdown) before the enemy can react. with 2 seconds, you will just get one move while you are "stunned".
That will make a big difference, doenst seems like it would, but it will for sure.
And, what needs to be changed, you can acid blade with hidden strike, let the dot tick in the 3 second knockdown, and then instead of backstabbing in the next GCD, do another spell, and then in the second one, you acid blade again and do backstab, so you refresh the dot affter 4 seconds, and a new one ticks for 6 seconds.
Thats dumb and adds also alot of dmg at the beginning.
BW should do it, that if dot is applied of acid blade you can not overwrite it. But for my personal XP, most of OPs don't even know that or use it like this.
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Defense and Shields are useful against 1 spec of Sent, Guardian, Shadow and Gunslinger; Sentinel, Guardian and Gunslinger all have trees that focus on non weapon damage (not sure about Shadows). Once people know that non weapon damage melts tanks most will switch specs.
Either change the way the mitigation stats work or rebalance the tanking classes. There is no sense to the only difference between a tank and a healer/dps being about 15~30% difference in armor reduction vs kinetic/energy and a couple 3 minute cooldown abilities. I would say right now that sages and sorcs are far tankier than any true tank just because they have their damage bubble.
And really? Every single point of defense, shield rating and absorption rating is wasted on the pvp sets. And why did they bother making accuracy above 100% help go thru mitigation? So that combat Sentinels and sharpshooter Gunslingers can feel ****** knowing that they have to stack stats to do what every other class does inherently?
I like that text. 100% my opinion. and i am pissed, because i have a full pvp epic gared assassine tank. and i no more play him because tank is sowhat ******** in this game it is unbelievable.
sigh... leveling my Agent/op now, because i don't want to play assassine as a DMG dealer, not so much fun for me that kind of style. but operative dmg style is cool, i would love to kill "tanks" in 6 seconds in full epic pvp gear and 450-500 exp.
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Healers exist, you can't deny that.
You can also guard your healer to make them near unkillable with you taunting/interceding the DPS on your healer.
If tanks become so tanky that they can shield everything they would need to do even less damage, because they would honestly become immortal ball carriers and node holders. It would turn rated matches into a nightmare. Oh dang the tank got the ball? I guess we lose, game over in first posession GG.
On occasion I've seen a tank backed by a healer. I've tried switching to charged bolts on them when I have them fully debuffed with grav round, which is supposed to be higher damage. The damage I do with full auto and charged bolts to a tank is just *pitiful* because their shield works. It would take me about 3 full bars of ammo spamming charged bolts at full debuff, with no cc or interruption of casts on the tank to drop them.
If everything hit tanks so weakly, they would NEVER die.
But it is totally dumb that its possible to kill a TANK in less than 6 seconds... that is not a real definition of a TANK for my liking, actually.
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Ich sehe das anders rum, finde diejenigen immer lustig die den Ball haben und direkt zu mir (assassine tank) passen weil sie denken, ah ja der tank, zu dem passen. Dabei ist es viel effektiver wenn sie selber laufen damit und ich dabei bin und diese schütze.
Oder die Leute die mit dem Ball 8 mal aufs "Sprungbrett" rennen und dann noch immer nicht in die richtige Richtung geflogen sind.
Passt doch einfach zu einem der oben steht, oder lauft DRUM HERUM! Ansonsten, FREI laufen, wie im Sport (Football) für Pässe. Nicht alle zusammen als ein Knubbel, das bringt gar nichts.
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yeah gave up trying to tank stuff in pvp.. everything bar the basic free attack cannot be dodged/shielded it seems.
so defensive stats are useless in pvp basically (defence / shielding /absorb) - thats why CC and high damage classes are so rampant and appear OP. it also begs the question why they bothered putting these stats on any of the pvp gear? when 90% of the incomming damage bypasses any effect they contribute towards.
Its actually all my fault.. as this is the first time in 10 years of mmo gaming that i decided to actually play a tank class.. and its the only game that the tanks cant tank in pvp due to largely non existant mitigation.
Same here... was so happy when i heard that tanks are actually viable in swtor (in pvp) with good mechanics like taunt/guard etc. but i gave up my assassine tank with full pvp epic gear because
1. you can guard like a mofo in every WZ, have medalls like crazy and protection/guard such a high number, you never recieve a MVP vote ever... at least on my server.
2. You try to run around and protect your mates, you never get healed even by the healers... they may think tanks are worthless because they do no dmg? i dont know.
3. a *********** operative/scoundrel comes and kills 80% of my HP in first 5 seconds. a *********** trooper/BH kills me on range with spamming just one button and never moving 1mm...
4. you do actually no DMG themn, whats kinda normal as a tank. with tank gear + specc. but its not very rewarding if you are not playing every single WZ with a premade grp of friends.
im leveling a operative agent now, because im also little bit disappointed too, by the assassine class. actually... operative agent gives me what i epected fromt he assasine tbh.
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I play an Operative.
I have only ever killed somebody during the initial KD once (without outside help)
I have killed them in the very next hit, but only once in the three seconds and that was vs a lvl35.
Against same/better geared players it just doesnt happen, vs same geared tank or shielded player its impossible.
However i get one shotted 2-3-4-5 times a game by EVERY other class, from level 10 to level 50. Whether they are same geared or lower geared, if they have more skill or less skill.
Simply by being knocked back of a bridge = instant death
Grappled into firepit = instant death
Force pushed off a bridge = instant death
KB/Grapple/Force push into acid = lingering death
The QQ's i see from people asking to get Op's nerfed are because they got owned by an Op (usualy vastly outgeared) once or twice in a game.
Yet we are the only class in the game that can't use any form of KB or grapple which are responsible for FAR more deaths than anything else in a WZ.
Next time before you come running here QQ'ing about going from 14k to 0 in 3seconds once in a match, remember all the people you knocked off a bridge or into fire pits, or stunned from 30m away over fire.
In actual fact Op is THE ONLY CLASS IN THIS GAME THAT CANNOT ONE SHOT, but every other class can.
********... i play a full pvp epic geared assassine tank and a scoundrel/operative kills 70-80% of my HP in the first stun. every time they attack me this happens.... and there is no way i can survive with my last 20-30% HP vs a full HP scoundrel/operative.
This class is so broken, its not even funny. im leveling one btw. 26 atm.
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well I can comment after 2 days of solid play using your spec as well as the 23/0/18 and the tri shock 21/12/8 and I can attest the specs are garbage. You dont gain that much more survivablity and your burst is bad and the ramp up time is abysmal. Yea it gains a decent amount of control but not having no burst and having huge ramp up time to even get good damage isa huge turn off.
I will be going back to 2/31/8 because it has great burst, low slash is amazing as another inturrupt vs healer or a set up for Maul, plus it has superior consistant damage with surging charge + discharge, Voltaic slash is far superior to the damage of Thash plus it has a lower animation time which doesnt conflict with Biowares epic failure of GCD locking. I also gain 2 min force cloak, and Crackling Blast + Recklessness is superior and less ramp up time then either of the other spec.
More Burst, same control, superior on target damage and better escape with arguably less survivability, ill take my odds with my spec any day. Good luck enjoying your spec though.
If you wear dps gear and want to dps, don't specc at all into tank tree. i don't get why ppl specc smth like 23/0/18 with dps gear. I play Tank, therefore tank gear etc. and ofc i do not specc 31 point sin deception, it wouldnt make any sense.
i spent like 1,5 million credits on respeccing as a tank with tank gear. Tested a lot 27/14/0 and 23/0/18 and 31/0/10.
31 points in darkness is ******** at the moment. you just give up so much for wither which is a waste of force everytime you use it in any WZ.
Best choice is actually 23/0/18. As i said, for TANKS with tank GEAR. not for ppl with dps gear.
Good Job BW!
in PvP
Posted
I don't find any class overpowered actually. not even sorcs. BUT... i just hate it how BH mercs and trooper commandos are played, this 1 button spamming has to stop... you feel bad everytime you kill some of those guys, and you feel very bad if you got killed from such an idiot from the back while you are fighting someone else in the front.
pew pew pew 1 button mashing.