Also, just a minor point. The force/tech damage actually *can* be defended against, but only through talents or set bonuses, defense rating will not affect it. Anyway, the next version of the program (probably out in a day or so) will incorporate all these deeper levels of detail. It's the #1 request I've gotten thus far, and for good reason. I had to start somewhere though or it would never have gone live so all in due time.

Thanks, and yes you are correct. It's something I need to add in shortly to avoid confusion and shed more light on particular strengths and weaknesses of given sets. Currently the base algorithm assumes all incoming damage is fully mitigatable (ie: can be dodged and shielded, thereby melee/ranged damage). To avoid confusion, what I'll do is add two additional MMP/TTL readouts (and BIS gear set winners) so you basically see all three possible incoming damage type categories, however each one assuming 100% of only that type as incomming. The tricky part is defining what ratio of these types exist in a given situation, which is very hard to generalize. Since fights are so different for each other it's probably best left as an advanced function that allows you to specify the ratio of each type of damage coming in. I'll add that in as a seperate function a user can dail in to see how a set will perform, but I can't precompute all possible combinations of damage ratios before hand and give you BIS for any given ratio. If there's a standard ratio everyone can agree on I could easily do that though.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my response and I apologize for that. I stated the base algorithm currently assumes all incoming damage is fully mitigatable (ie: can be dodged and shielded, thereby melee/ranged damage). To avoid confusion, what I'll do is add two additional MMP/TTL readouts (and BIS gear set winners) so you basically see all three categories, one for each distinct damage type family, however each one assuming 100% of only that type as incomming. The tricky part is defining what ratio of these types exist in a given situation, which is very hard to generalize. Since fights are so different for each other it's probably best left as an advanced function that allows you to specify the ratio of each type of damage coming in. I'll add that in as a seperate function a user can dail in to see how a set will perform, but I can't precompute all possible combinations of damage ratios before hand and give you BIS for any given ratio. If there's a standard ratio everyone can agree on I could easily do that though. I hope that helps, sorry for any confusion in my earlier response.

Great questions. The only thing that impacts mitigation of Internal/Elemental damage is specific resistance and damage reduction, which gear stats cannot increase (defense/shield/absorb will not help you with In/El). Thus, for the purposes of comparing gear sets with one another, the general algorithm currently assumes all incoming damage as fully mitigatable Energy/Kinetic variety. That being said, I will add a new section soon that exposes several more advanced functions including one you can use if you want to see how a particular setup equates to a different (user defined) ratio of En/Ki vs In/El (rather than 1:0). Generally speaking, since gear can't increase the percentage of In/El damage you mitigate, the only thing that you can gear for to survive longer when faced with that type of damage is raw endurance. As far as how I determine the precomputed BIS gear sets, it's actually rather simple at heart but complex in execution. Basically, I create a cartesian product of all possible unique gear variations using the top-tier gear options. Then for each of these combos (over a billion already), I run each set through the formulas and dynamic models, tracking MMP, TTL, and individual stats, so when I'm done running through them all I have a report of what particular set had the best results in any category and use that set for each class quick lookup functions. As long as I have the all the best gear options available in my program for it to choose from, you can be rest assured that when it's done computing, the set it determined has the highest number in a particular category, is in fact, the absolute best min/max set for that category.

Meaning the type of incoming damage when computing TTL? This would be a more advanced function, but useful for sure. Currently TTL is calculated based off Energy/Kinetic damage coming in. But aye, in some cases you have mix of Internal/Elemental which eats right through a healthy chunk of MMP, reducing TTL. Putting an "advanced tools" section somewhere which allows plugging in these ratios for more custom scenarios is on my (ever growing) to-do list.

Based on a lot of feedback I've already seen, I will add the Arkanian/Black Market gear to all the options so one can pick from all the level 55 gear currently in game. I'll probably also add the rank 26/25 armorings for those that still have Denova/Campaign armorings waiting for their tokens to upgrade them to Arkanian/Underworld. It would be a nice addition, for sure. Just a little heavy on the development side to plug that in but it would yield some nice benefits. Right now I'm assuming everyone takes all the tanky talents and abilities, but pulling from how one actually talented instead would be more dynamic. Say you don't take that 36 point ability but dive into another tree to gain 2% extra defense via a 3rd tier group (Vanguards for instance can hybrid this way), how does that affect things? I'd like to know too, I think you'll see that implemented sooner than later. I know right! That's the first thing my guildies said when I rolled this out. The problem with DPS is you'd need to accurately capture entire rotations and priorities then simulate it in a combat system with duration to get real data. With all the permutations and nuances for the various advanced classes that's an awful lot of work. Something I wish I had the luxury of time to do, but I can't quit my day job just yet.

The intent of the program is to make finding out how to balance these stats real easy. You just need to pick what type of set you want to build (MMP/TTL, or maybe a balance), and let the precomputed sets act as a beacon to get you there. Do you want to reduce the total damage you intake to an absolute minimum (MMP) or have better longevity to give healers breathing room to do other things and avoid unlucky streaks that can lead to tank gib, but at a cost of actually taking more damage in the end (TTL). Once you decide that, let the formulas work out the about the actual numbers for the 3 stats for you.

Indeed, the original algorithm the program uses to pick out highest flat stat sets actually doesn't factor in dynamic (proc) effects, which in hindsight is a bug, and that's why you see it choose an odd relic pair. I'll fix that so it takes into consideration the proc effects rather than just flat stat. D'oh! Now this is what what I'm talking about! I love to see this type of helpful pointer. You're absolutely right, I neglected to consider the BioChem crafted implants, and looking at the Veracity Experimental Implant, it does have the highest defense/shield combo of any other implant currently in game. It actually yields a higher MMP when I plug it in (which I would expect). Your TTL would go down with all the missing endurance, but this boils down to what kind of set you're trying to run... one that avoid the maximum overall damage in a fight, or one that eats more but lives longer without healing support. Yes! All the class ability and talents are factored into the MMP/TTL numbers listed as dynamic. For PT, they factor in the average uptime of [Heat Blast] ability for instance. This is why a precomputed raw MMP set may differ a bunch from a dynamic MMP set since the talented abilities and procs start making other stat choices a better interplay for best results. I know right, some of the data really is interesting to look at. The difference in best MMP and best TTL is quite big, but they do two very different things. Do you want to reduce the total damage you intake to an absolute minimum (MMP) or have better longevity to give healers breathing room to do other things and avoid unlucky streaks that can lead to tank gib, but at a cost of actually taking more damage in the end (TTL).

Do you mean you would like to see all the Arkanian/Black Market options for cusotmization as well? I could easily add that in the selection options if it would be helpful. You can currently fully customize all gear slots with all the top-end (Underworld/Verpine) tank based gear available, so I'm wondering if you mean the ability to put on a lower tier of gear? When looking through the eyes of true best in slot for X (be it highest raw avoidance, longest time to live, whatever), I generally didn't think we would want to consider anything lower than the highest tier. But, I could see where it would be nice to maybe also play with a tier lower so you can configure where you may be now and plot a path to the best end game gear available. On a similar note, a function I'll add in soon is the ability to dail in your current numbers somewhere seperately so you can see what the gear set you have on at the moment rates for MMP/TTL to compare with other options within the optimizer.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear you think this will be useful to you and your guild. You're right, there's lingo on the optimizer page that goes without explanation. I was going to cover that in more detailed fashion on the forum or other pages, but I think it would help to give a short description with help popups on the optimizer page directly. Thanks for the input!

Thanks, not a bad idea! Originally I assumed people would know their set bonuses by heart, but I'll incorporate that in the hover popups to spell it out just in case (or as a reminder).

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Hi fellow tanks! I realize there are vast resources online and existing threads/sites dedicated to providing guidance on this topic already, however, I've often felt too many generalizations were being used when numbers got referenced with a lack of hard math and bearing on in-game reality. So, after ample discussions with people in game, I thought it would be great to introduce a different approach to the problem to try and help everyone out. Essentially, if we accurately model the tank game systems then provide a means to define all the possible individual class characteristics and in-game gear available, one can play with how decisions actually impact mitigation and survivability themselves without putting their trust in someone else's opinions. And thus the tank optimizer program was born, a tool to empower your choices. Check it out if you like: http://www.swtor-theory.com The program allows you to define all the various traits that make up a tank class, the boosts you get from specific talents, various perks from legacy or datacrons, biochem stims, class buffs, etc. Then you can fully outfit your character's gear with choices from all the top-end gear currently in game. With that, you can see how your tank statistics actually form up, where they fall on diminishing returns, how they resolve in mean mitigation formulas and time to live scenarios. Moreover, to give you a starting point, based on default talents and characteristics I've precomputed various optimal complete gear sets that achieve the highest numbers in various categories (ie: highest raw avoidance, highest endurance, etc) after processing every single gear variation possible. You can tweak things from one of these starting points, or build your own from scratch by starting with an empty set. No more guessing, no more trusting someone else's opinions, now you're in full control of the way you gear and know the numbers behind it. I certainly hope you enjoy it and find it useful. Please share your comments/thoughts or bugs (gasp) so we can make it even better!

Aye, though we can probably all sympathize with the OP as it can be quite absurd when you're pugging and seemingly get continuously matched against full premades (4 or 8) against your mismatched pure random group. At least it's over fast (usually). In the current state of affairs, solo pugging generally requires thick skin and a healthy dash of self masochism, more so than before.

Actually, the tank stance modifier for both Guardians and Vanguards are applying an extra 1.5%, they both report 60% but are resulting in 61.5%... it's the Shadow's 115% modifier from tank stance that is the only one working right and not applying extra. The 15%/16% armor bonus talents that Guardians/Vanguards have apply their modifier correctly too, so it's just a tank stance issue for the classes that have 60% boost from stance.

LOL, do you see what class I play? You're preaching to the choir.

Sick of QQ? First, get to 55 then you can start talking. But as for pre-55, your first opening attack on that commando will probably just fuel it even more. In 4 GCDs, you nearly brought that poor dude down to nothing. That burst - your near back to back ~7k hits - that's not even closely obtainable by some other classes, that's where a chunk of the QQ is coming from and you just added to it. On another note, nice vid!

ROFL, pretty telling when no VG/PT wants to admit that their biggest hit is nearly half of what some of the other classes can currently do. Anyway, guess I'll throw my hat in the ring and start keeping track of my #s. To start: Vanguard, Overall Damage: 790,698 http://i.imgur.com/SlNUmhF.jpg

Yeah well, it should go without saying that the system is always changing. What may be possible today may not be tomorrow and yesterday's records may be anomalies of circumstance which cannot be reproduced today, so on and so forth but c'est la vie. To keep a records thread truly honest it should be reset on occasion (probably every major patch, 2.1, 2.2, etc). Without that, these are just for entertainment purposes only and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Just throwing this out there, it seems like for both the Jedi Knight and Vanguard, the tank stance armor modifier is applying itself as exactly 61.5% instead of the 60% as the tooltip reads. The respective 15%/16% talented armor modifiers are correct though. Thus, if you take a piece of armor and equip it (with the talent and stance), the resulting number is: JK = Armor*1.765 VG = Armor*1.775 However, for shadows, the modifier seems to work accurately, so for them: Armor*2.15 Unless I'm missing something, seems like a in-game bug with the 60% stance modifier... I guess it's to our favor so I'm not going to complain, but for someone building math from armor to get DR, you might want to know that little tidbit.