darth_freefall
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Posts posted by darth_freefall
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am i the only one who has no idea who all these people are except like luke and vader?
Probably not, if you are interested i would recommend reading the EU books, but if you don't have time/money to do so then check out wookipedia
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Actually his exact meaning was that there are two universes, his own universe which is just the saga and the TCW and then the alternate EU universe which is the entire EU, Revan only exists in the EU, meaning we must debate about it in the EU, so yes EU Vader is valid here.
^This^
I love how people discount EU Vader, but then want to compare him against an EU character like Revan.
You either count all EU or none (whether you like it or not).
If you count EU, you see Vader was stronger, improved in his suit and covered his weaknesses by improving his lightsaber form.
If you don't count EU there is no Revan.
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there are just some lines you don't cross.....Killing children to save your wife, not going to go there.
He was already lost by that point, of course you would never go that far. But he had become Darth Vader at that point, he succumbed to the dark side when he cut off Windus arm.
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Have you not played the forced unleashed series of games vader loses to his apprentice not once but twice.
Also for whoever said luke was the chosen one I disagree. After the prequels where made I see it like this the whole star wars saga was basically about vader and the prophecy ( qoute by yoda in ep 3 a prophecy misread could have been). Its the transformation of a hot tempered arrogant but powerful jedi who turns to dark side due to many factors and then is turned back by his son, but vader destroys the sith by killing the emperor therefore restoring peace. He was the chosen one. So I say vader would win against revan.
Its a game. They are not going to make a game where you can't beat the last boss.
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No he didn't. George Lucas states that the final 3 movies ends everything we saw. That means Sidious, Luke, Leia, Han ETC. Luke doesn't get married, Sidious doesn't have clones, he and Vader just dies. So your arguments are faulty and open for interpretation for the open minded. Again, means non-canon no matter what you say. GL Has the final word.
Which also means that Vitate never existed so that means this discussion is pointless.
Vitate is EU which doesn't exist to GL, only the movies do
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Beware Darth Astalli Fabulous!!!!
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Too bad he chokes his own wife thus defeating the purpose of it all.
Hence the tragedy of Darth Vader, he does it all to save her and then loses both her and himself to darkness
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Vitate will never be more powerful than Sidious
Sidious is the creation of George Lucas.
Vitate is the creation of bioware, a 3rd party company.
Lucas will never allow a character created by someone else to be stronger than who he has said is the most powerful Sith ever.
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So apprently to some people Vader is more powerful than Revan for the following reason:
He survived Sidious's lightning that is the most powerful in the whole SW universe.
Well, if we follow this logic then Luke is more powerful than Vader because unlike his father, he survived the Emperor's attack. In addition, he was exposed to it for a much longer period of time. But this can't be true because Luke was not a chosen one.
He was torturing Luke, he wasn't using the lightning at the full power. He used it at full once Vader picked him up, and where just about everyone else would have fallen over straight away he threw him down the exhaust port.
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I don't think Sidious was letting Mace Windu win...I mean if he wanted to kill Mace and lie to Anakin, then that would have gotten the same point across. plus, that just seems more like something sidious would do. I think Mace could have taken Sidious because he was handling his lightning just fine, and he was hurting Palps by deflecting it right into his face. I like how Palp got all deformed when he was shocked, but Luke didn't look different at all...
anyways, stop worshipping palpatine. So the books say he can do really cool stuff, but the books just try to invent FORCE GODS all the time, so I don't know how much stock you should put into someone turning Sidious into Darth Jesus Christ. He just is the dark lord of the sith, and Authors want to sell their books, Comics, and video games (force unleashed reference, The main character in that was way too ridiculous).
not if GL says he wasn't going to. GL is the absolute decider, and it's GL's galaxy.
Well GL says Sidious is the strongest, and as you said its his galaxy.
If you read the novel the force lightning was bending his lightsaber and he was losing his grip. He only stopped the force lightning because Anakin showed up.
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I think Dooku thought he would be captured or they would turn Anakin together. You can see his shock when Palpatine makes Anakin do it. And i think Palpatine uses it as a means to draw Anakin to the dark side. He kills Dooku, feels bad about it but Palpatine convinces him that it has helped the situation, that it is better now the galaxy is free of Dooku. Slowly turning him to the idea of the dark side and going further than the Jedi would.
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No. At least from the movies, Anakin came across as a spoiled brat in serious need of a good spanking.
Yeah in the movies he comes across like that, but i blame the director for that. The actors have proven themselves in other movies, yet seem to do a really poor job for star wars.
IMO the tragedy of Darth Vader that Lucas wanted to tell is much more apparent in the novelizations.
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2. read the original post I was talking about pre mustafar vader to which the eu doesn't apply. the eu covers post mustafar vader. derr. it's not an issue of validity it is a timeline issue. it's like saying luke was always the god king of the force even when he was just living in the desert unaware of the force. no he learned and grew more powerful over time.
Why are you talking about pre-mustafar Vader. That is not what this thread is about.
If these guys fought in a fierce battle at their prime, who would win?The thread is about Vader vs Revan both in their prime.
Vader is in his prime in his suit.
2. read the original post I was talking about pre mustafar vader to which the eu doesn't apply.So your not counting EU???
Ok Vader wins because Revan doesn't exist. You can't count EU for one character and not the other.
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Yes i think that is 100% right.
I try and look at it from his point of view.
He has dreams about the love of his life dying. He needs guidance for this.
He can't go to the Jedi as they don't allow marriage
He goes instead to someone that he has known since he was a young boy.
Sidious then manipulates him and makes him see the dark side as the only way to gain the power to save the life of the women he loves.
He is only ever trying to save Padme. He is just manipulated by Sidious into turning to the dark side. He basically sells his soul to the devil without realising, in order to try and save her. I think by mustafar he is already too far gone to even realise what he is doing.
And i think it would happen to most people in the same case. I know if my wife was in danger i would do anything to save her.
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Revan, he knows more about the force. Darth Vader is just brute force really.
How do you get that???
Because Revan used the light and dark side?? So did Vader he was a Jedi at one point as well.
Is it because you saw Revan do awesome stuff that Vader didn't do in the movies??? They were made in the 70's/80's they didnt have the technology to do awesome force powers.
Vader is superior to Revan, Revans abilities were shown better because he was in a game from the late 90s early 2000s as apposed to a movie from the 70s but he would still lose.
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1. the section in white is just you stating an incorrect number repeatedly without ever listing a source or stating how sideous is in any way relevant to the topic at hand.
2.section in orange none of the EU has anything to do with the version of vader I am suggesting would lose. That deals with the later version of vader that I state is better just as teenage version was better than kid version because he had more understanding and experience.
3. section in red complete and total exaggeration
1. This is approved by George Lucas himself, but please feel free to argue against the creator of the series. And Sidious and Vader are the result of thousands of years of the rule of two, where the apprentice surpasses the master each time. How could anyone from as long ago as Revan stand a chance?
I get you got to play him in KOTOR, but that doesn't make him some massively powerful jedi that can beat anyone else.
2. Well if we aren't counting EU for Vader then it isn't fair to count EU for Revan, its like saying who would win in a drag race? car 1 or car 2. oh but car 1 can't use wheels. You count all EU or none of it.
As you are disgarding EU for Vader, you must therefore be doing the same for Revan, which means he doesn't exist therefore there is no contest.
3. Read the novelizations of the movies. They were published before the movies were made and go into detail about that.
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How is this even a thread??
Yoda lost the first time because Sidious was more powerful. A rematch wouldn't change the result
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ok if luke is space jesus who does that make vader?
Space Moses???
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Loved them all
Were the best games
Love most star wars games in fact, would love to see a battlefront 3, but i never will
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Prove it with facts? Its a frigen made up story. If you like vader thats fine. Episde1 is in theaters.Enjoy bud. Relax.
Yes facts, its a made up story but there is still facts, it is still documented, and there is still canon material that settles arguments like this.
Something like this from Rhyltran that proves Sidious was stronger
Sidious had more dark side knowledge than any Sith before him and his education was far superior. Bane was a very powerful Sith Lord and his line only taught a single apprentice so a single apprentice was getting the focus of all their training. They also had more access to Sith holocrons, knowledge, lore, scrolls, relics, and etc more than any other Sith. Sidious had far more power than Vitiate did and nothing Vitiate has done compares to what Sidious has been able to accomplish.The era in the prequels was said by Lucas to be the golden age of the Jedi. Leland Chee has stated that Yoda, pre rotj, was the greatest light side force user and Sidious was the greatest Dark Side user to ever exist. Considering he created the rules of Canon..
Finally..
"He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.
To counter the dark side's consumption, Palpatine turned to a bizarre combination of technology and Sith magic. Palpatine used Spaarti cloning cylinders to create a store of younger bodies, and employed an ancient Sith technique to transfer his consciousness into a waiting clone. Thus, Palpatine could avoid death indefinitely -- as long as his supply of clones remained intact. He would change his form again and again, prolonging his life. Palpatine constructed a secret throne-world deep within the galaxy's core, on a shadowy world called Byss. Here, he kept his clones safe, protected by a loyal cadre of Dark Side Adepts. "
"In true Sith tradition, Palpatine murdered his Master upon achieving the skill and ability to do so."
Both from Leland chee
"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."
Leland chee
As Juno rescued the Senators, Starkiller confronted the Sith Lords who had been manipulating him for years. Lightsabers clashed inside the Emperor's observation dome, but Starkiller was ultimately no match for the power of Darth Sidious. Bombarded by Force lightning, Starkiller did not fight back but instead unleashed all the power of the Force within him, causing a tremendous blast that shattered the Emperor's tower and caused enough of a distraction to allow Eclipse and the Rebel Senators to escape. - Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
“Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.”(The New Essential Chronology, page 84 )
The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.” (Death Star, page 76)
“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"-- The Dark Empire Sourcebook.
“[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.”-- The Dark Side Sourcebook.
”Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time.”-- The Complete Visual Dictionary.
"The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." -- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.
"Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked."
The ROTS Novelization..
There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.
It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.
It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor.
It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...
just--
didn't--
have it.
He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.
He had lost before he was born.
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.
While the Jedi--
The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter the light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when the war itself had become the dark's own weapon?
He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him.
Force feats.
*Force Storms Wormholes that can destroy starfleets (As well as planets. They can also move lightyears across the galaxy)
* Force-based subjugation of ~20 billion sentients and the simultaneous leeching of their life energy
* Corrupting an entire planet, transforming it from a neutral territory to "one of the most powerful dark side sites in the galaxy"
* Blunting the Force sensitivity of ~10,000 collective Jedi for over a decade
* Slaughtering trained Force Jedi with a single bursts of Force energy on one's death bed.
* Disintegrating highly trained Sith acolytes with a single gout of Sith lightning.
* Destroying ~50 armored stormtroopers with a single gout of Sith lightning
* Shrugging off a Force-enhanced explosion from the energy of a Force-user powerful enough to manipulate a Star Destroyer.
* Manipulating the minds of seasoned thousands (perhaps millions) of fleet officers and members.
* Mindwipe the people of Coruscant to make them forget the burial of a star destroyer.
"Now that Vader had begun to tap deeply into the power of the dark side, his true apprenticeship can begin."
"More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a risk to his mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power over life and death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No need to have an apprentice other than to honor the tradition Darth Bane had resurrected a millenium earlier."
Right here it shows that currently Sidious fears Vader. That he's a threat to his mastery of the dark side. Just prior the book was talking about Sidious views on the rule of two and how he remembered when he killed his master. Vader is a threat to him. He's THAT powerful but Sidious feels in the future. He won't be. He'll become so powerful that there wouldn't be a need for another apprentice. That time hasn't come yet. First it states he's becoming more powerful now that he's finally tapping deep into the dark side and then it states in the future he won't need to fear him.
"Time and again the two Jedi attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate the Jedi strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed."
"She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems."
"Calling on the Force, Starstone fell on him in a fury, striking wildly and repeatedly, and with anger. Moments into her attack she understood that Vader was merely allowing her to vent, as the Temple's swordmaster had often done with his students, allowing them to believe that they were driving him back, when in fact he was simply encouraging them to wear themselves out before disarming them in one rapid motion."
"He flicked his blade, precisely, economically, forcing her back and back..."
page 278.
Page 277
Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade."
This was against, admittedly, two skilled duelists. He was also facing Starstone, Kulka, Forte, Jambe, Nam, and Klossi. None of them could match him. Against Roan Shryne, he slashed at his legs at one point and Vader leapt over his blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him.
From force unleashed..
The apprentice crouched facedown in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to the one mistake his Master had done.
He had been rebuilt tougher than before.
Vader casually tossed him toward the icy cliff.
He though he was ready -and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.
A simple double stroke, up then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrist and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a Telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides...
Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.
The apprentice vowed not to give him one...
The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near...
Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith Lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath. [...] The Dark Lord was instantly on his feet...
He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the Force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.
For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.
Note that the apprentice had defeated multiple Jedi masters himself, was a power house in the force, and was extremely agile. If you want more sources. Go ahead. But it's obvious. Vader was by far one of the most powerful Sith. Even in his suit. Even Sidious regarded him as a threat.
Sorry. Canon is.. Sidious is the most powerful Sith. Period.
Nihilus can drain the force from others. That's how he can strip the force away from them. Sidious could do the same. Not just that but Dooku, Yoda, Luke, and Sidious all knew how to counter this power. They all learned a technique to block it. They can block force drain. So they can't just have the force stripped from them.
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Sorry one more thing. When OBI cutt off vaders limbs he lost alot of his midaclorians. Thats why he nevr reached his full potential. Vader would have become much stronger than palpatine. If he wasent so stupid.Guys like Revan/Vader are anolimys or however you spell it of the force. Revan was much stronger than palpatine. Vader would have been. Hew just messed up. Also yes revan lost to the emporer but he took in the power of a planet+a bunch of sithlords. Revan was fighting an Imortal. Palpatine is nowhere as strong as him. All the writers ignore gorge. He knows nothing about SW anymore.Just lets remake this movie and get more $.
Palpatine was immortal, he mastered Force Essence Transfer.
Palpatine was the result of 1000 years of the rule of two. Every time the apprentice surpased the master and became stronger.
Palpatine learnt from a stolen Jedi Holocron. He knew both sides of the force, and he is confirmed by George Lucas himself to be the strongest Sith Lord.
As for Vader, yes he lost potential but he still got stronger in his suit not weaker and would stomp Revan.
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Vader would lose.Why? He lost to OBi/Starkiller/Luke. The sad part is luke only trained for like 30 min and still beat hs slow ***. Vader was never a master. Always palpaitnes or Obis lacky. When fighting luke he dident even get hurt. He got tired from blocking LOL. I would kill Vader. How? I would just push the buttons on his chest and mess with his breathing or yell at him about why he choked padamay. I bet he would sit there and cry. Ok no more jokeing. Vader is to weak minded and he loses all his major fights. He wouldent even come close to revans abilitys. He would just end up working for revan.
Please watch Star Wars again, use your brain and come back then
Vader never went all out against Luke
Vader is stronger than when he lost to Obiwan
Starkiller is game canon, he was a character created for a game. What would be the point if at the end of the game he lost.
Luke trained for 4 years as a Jedi, it wasn't just one movie after another. There was time in between.
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Id probably go for preds due to cloaking and infa-red vision
But if Karen Traviss wrote it the Fetts would win with one shot as soon as the fight started
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I hate her attitude towards jedi
Karen Traviss posted:
I see Vader as a tragic character who's been betrayed by everyone, and I can't help thinking of the Jedi as self-serving unelected elitist spoon-benders making whoopee on Republic taxpayers' credits. It's an iconoclastic journo world-view. Believe me, Order 66 was long overdue. I have a couple of Jedi that I don't want to shoot on sight, but they're my own creations, so I could make them a little humbler and more aware of the consequences they create for others.
Order 66 was long overdue....
Are you kidding me, it was genocide.
as has been posted on here before please go to
http://boards.theforce.net/literature/b10003/28128642/p5
Scroll down to you see a big post from YodaKenobi
he goes through one of her books and points out how the entire time boba fett rails on the jedi and how they are effectively useless.
Jaina gets help on working a comm link and paises Fett on creating a new technology.
Its as though she never fought in the Yuuzong Vong war, created moves and technology to defeat them.
In fact she is even shown to be inferior to ALL mandalorian pilots when she is in fact one of the best fighter pilots in the galaxy
Sidious vs Vitiate
in STAR WARS Discussion
Posted
This has been answered in another thread, so i will put the answer here
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=139297
But here is a quote from the thread if you dont want to go read 10 pages. Credit goes to Makoto_Shishio