You have had a much different experience than my own. When I went to Ilum I sat on my mount and got my quests done by watching Republic and Imps flip nodes back and forth. I am horribly disappointed in the implementation of PvP in this game, but I do agree that the map looks well laid out, is good looking and has not caused me lag issues.

I started playing MMO's with DAoC, and have been constantly looking for that great RvR experience ever since. WaR came close, but there were too many other influences keeping that game from being great. I was absolutely stoked to find out that SWTOR was going to have an RvR planet. As soon as I hit 50, I rushed out to it ready to get in some action. When I arrived though, it was an odd series of events. 1. I came across a lone repub firing a missle. I attacked, she /sighed and just stood there. After killing her I moved on. 2. I ran into an entire group of repub standing next to a group of imperials. I charged in, and was instantly bombarded with tells telling me not to attack, that they were flipping. 3. I stood there and completed my daily and weekly PvP requirements without once getting off my mount. To say that I am disappointed would be an understatement. Not only was there no incentive to actually fight...there was a strong incentive to not fight. This is a huge issue. If you do not have some sort of coherent PvP system in place, you will lose subscribers. It looks like this game will just be another warfront grind.

Yeah hell, we went 5-0. Maybe it just bugged on us that particular round. If no one else seems to be having the issue, it could have just be a BW flub.

Seems to be caused when you are up against your own faction. It doesn't seem to trip the win against your own.

Yup, and you didn't have geared lvl 50's in there either. This is a very gear centric game and it makes a substantial difference.

faaast forums.

I went through the first couple pages and saw a lot of QQ about Huttball, but nothing about my particular QQ. I actually like Huttball and I think its a great way to help deal with faction imbalance. That said, it should count towards completing your PvP daily even when up against the same faction as it is extremely difficult to get into any other type of game. Thanks.

Actually it was a nice, polite and constructive thread that is already being attacked by slack-jawed fanboys before it makes it to page 2. btw, nice rude, pointless response.

Would you care to elaborate on your largely unintelligible post?

This is a valid response, although I think you are underplaying how important PvP specs will be when the RvR starts and guild groups really start rolling.

Again, reading comprehension is an important part of not looking slow. Enjoying PvE AND PvP combat in a game that contains both in abundance, but only being able to do one effectively is is not "what choices are all about", it's quite simply inane and stupid. If the respec costs are reasonable then sure, but they are not in this game. They climb to the point of absurdity and make it IMPOSSIBLE for someone to both raid and pvp effectively. One more time for the cheap seat and nervous hospitals: Do you honestly think that people are going to roll 2 of the exact same class simply so they can PvE and PvP? If so I simply do not know what to tell you except wake up.

Nope. All the way since DAoC. Nice job again not addressing the PvP/PvE comment I directed at you earlier. Only an idiot would suggest that you need 2 characters of the same class, or pay excessive respec costs to play PvE and PvP in this game. That is if they want to see the game last more than 6 months. You don't even have a reason for not wanting this, you are just argumentative and since you don't PvE and PvP you don't care and therefor just enjoy watching people "pay the consequences". Edit: After seeing your string of posts it is clear you are trolling. Almost got me.

Here is intellect. Your basic premise is that you should only be able to enjoy one aspect of the game, or pay excessive penalties. Why? Who knows, you give nothing to back up your argument, just some vague reference to Rift (which had a wonderful class system btw). You have no logic, no sound reasoning, only some odd wish for players to have to suffer the "consequences" of daring to want to PvP and PvE? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not a serious raider and pvper?

Do people like you even read the threads you post in? Tell me how a DPS Warrior (sentinal/marauder) can benefit from going through the same story twice so that they can have a PvP specced and PvE specced toon. It helps to read.

When I was pointing to the lack of experience, what I meant was that you obviously have not raided endgame WHILE PvPing competitively. I should have made that more clear. For all I know you were in the top WoW guild in the world or one of the most active PvPers around, but clearly not at the same time. I was. I was on a 4 night raid schedule, and was also doing the warlord grind (yes old times lol). So I would have to pay for 2 respecs a day. With raiding and PvPing this didn't leave me any time to grind. My buddies were throwing me money to respec. The dual spec option saved me from that. Now it is a staple of the MMO genre and will continue to be. BW has already stated that it will be going into the game, but I enjoy having conversations about this sort of thing. Comments like the one a couple above just make my day, where the smart-*** says "just pay the respec it isnt hard" then the next guy talks about his logic, when both of them clearly have zero knowledge about it. Hey guys, just use the (upcoming) dual spec option. It isn't hard.

Where exaclty are you looking? Go back through the thread. Most people want this for flipping between PvP and PvE. Honestly? You truly, honestly believe that it somehow adds to the enjoyment of the gamers who are active PvPers and raiders to have to grind cash? I find that hard to believe. If so, we obviously have very different ideas about what is fun. Also, what are you talking about as far as a bandaid? Are you talking about the healer/tank issue? Well, sure it does help in that respect, so sounds like a decent bandaid to me. If you are talking about a bandaid to help with the respec costs that active players would incur...well thats not a bandaid, its a fix. I guess I am just not understanding what you are saying here, please elaborate. Here is where I think the divide is happening. Like I said earlier in this thread, a large part of this comes from people who do not raid and PvP. If you had done much PvP in this game you would know that you cannot use your companions in any of the instanced PvP. As far as RvR who knows? Don't start with that crap. As stated above your idea has nothing to do with me or the countless other raiders who PvP. It would not help us in the slightest. You are blatantly incorrect. Even if you WERE right about companions in PvP, how in the hell would that make me selfish? I am not the one wanting to impose a grind on other players when it is not anything that would involve me anyway. You obviously have very little experience with any sort of raid environment or pvp environment. Historically hybrid specs have almost ALWAYS been inferior to pure specs in regards to ANY role, whether it be tanking, dps or support. In every game that allows dual speccing, pure classes still thrive. I have no idea where you are getting your ideas, but they are completely groundless and without any sort of factual basis. Hell, look at Rift, where you can be up to 6 classes. Pure classes are still the norm for just about anything. I think you mean well, but you have very little idea what you are talking about. You have ideas, but they are based on groundless rhetoric instead of real facts.

Except you are completely ignoring the other side of the argument. The majority of people want dual spec for a PvE/PvP build. Your whole idea does nothing for that. Why in the hell would you support being able to PAY for a respec so that you can PvP/PvE, but would not support a dual spec option? Simply to make it more of a pain in the ***? You call it "mcdonalds" MMO, but it is simply an innovation. Just because something is more convenient and easier does not mean it is dumbed down or EZmode, it simply means that it isn't a major pain in the ***. Does no one remember the EQ grindfest? Putting in more questing in later MMOs was probably looked at by some as "EZmode", but thank god they were the insane vocal minority, since the genre was improved. Just like it was with dual speccing. I am going to flip PvP build and raid build anyway, along with every single other end game raider who enjoys pvp on the weekends, this will just eliminate the stupid cash grind to do so.

Great post. As a min-maxxer I don't see eye to eye with you, but I really appreciate hearing a valid argument from someone who makes sense and isn't just frothing at the mouth. This is the first time I have heard an actual reason for being anti-dual spec, and while I disagree that it is important enough to limit the majorities gaming style over, I cannot honestly say that I think you are wrong. Well said.

While I appreciate hearing a rational argument, I still have to disagree. What happens in a scenario without dual specs is not less min-maxing. You will still have optimized raid builds and optimized PvP builds. This does not eliminate a cookie cutter build. All it does is force more griding for the players that have time, or a pigeon-holing of characters, ie: the top raiding guilds will be made up of players with optimal PvE builds, same with PvP, with players that will not be able to compete in the other without spending inordinate amounts of cash, or leveling 2 toons. Again, this does nothing except drive off players to other games. You can blame wow for whatever you want, but the reality is min-maxing has been around since tabletop games, log parsing (meters) since EQ, and PvP/PvE specs since the beginning of gaming. The only thing that has changed is that the games help cater to this with dual spec now, after all the complaining about having to pay extreme respec prices.

I believe it has been linked twice in this thread alone.

People like you need to stop reading what you want to read, and start paying attention to the rest. Most of the posters in this thread are not asking to change AC's, only allowing a PvP/PvE spec without an insanely high cost. I would love to see how many of these posters are: 1. Not PvPers 2. Not progression raiders Because the whole thing stinks of "I don't like it, so it shouldn't be in here!" Probably because you will never use it anyway since you don't raid end game and PvP in the same week.

Can you back out of your own ankle deep rhetoric for one second and answer the question you have glossed over in your zeal to be "right"? How in the hell can you advocate and champion a DPS Sith Marauder having to play through the same storyline 2 times so that he can have 2 separate toons for PvP/PvE? We are talking about the same AC, only different point allocation for CC/DPS/Escape purposes? All for what? Some peoples "immersion"? Christ that is the most inane and circular argument I have ever heard and I truly think at this point you are just being deliberately obtuse for the sake of being "right" in an internet argument. There is NO logical reason to force a player to level the same character twice so that they can enjoy both aspects of the game. And before you say "You can already do that by respeccing", you are only partially correct, as the cost quickly becomes exorbitant and unattainable for the average player, hence why it was implemented in WoW to begin with.

Oh yessir, not disagreeing at all. I didn't like Rift's end game, and their PvP system was useless, but no one can argue just how great the game was at launch. Just pointing it out to the people using the "all games are borked at launch" argument.

You must have missed Rift's launch. I didn't enjoy the game much, but the launch was certainly smoother and the game much more polished.

Really? You presume a lot, and like assumptions normally are, you are very incorrect. Nice of you to zone in on one part of a post, make a wild, unfounded statement and dismiss everything else. Nice job!