Oh, duh :facepalm: thanks! And I see the OP already has it in his post :facepalm: times 2

Whats HM mean?

wooot, thank youy for the responses. I am glad I won't be missing out of too much stuff by not raiding!

Very short answer ^_^ any explanation to your answer?

So whats the difference? Is hFP gear less than Ops gear, and what about other stuff that drops? Tokens(is any), crafting schematics and mats, ect. The point of the question is that since I do not play on raiding, are hFP worth doing for crafting/gearing.

Ok cool, at least pvp is still open to me, ty for the reply!

'Tis also a logical fallacy, therefore his logic is in question

So pretty much until summer-ish I will be small group/soloing. This means pug/premade warzones (since the cap is 4) and FP/ heroic FP quest and such. Oh and a ton of leveling. Now I have been reading about raiding and that end game crafting mats drop from there so is this all I miss out on? Ops and Crafting? If so that would be kinda cool .

Will Sith jugg and jedi knight are about the end of my knowledge of the tanking classes so i can't argue there. I agree with your points, and am interested in what becomes of these class trees later on. Lets hope our constant replies have kept this thread on the top page long enough for the devs to see it .

Actually since bleeds can be cleansed, immortal/vengence doesn't seem to be epicness toward pvp. The lower tiered talents such as immune to CC after force leap and increased damage when slowed are superb, I find it lack luster. That being said, I in general look down upon bleed based classes. The comment that knights, and subsequently juggernauts, are bad pvp wise is an opinion, as there is not more evidence that is it bad versus evidence that it is not. I find that juggernaut is my most favorite class pvp wise. In any case this is another thing for the devs to look at, whether or not they do anything about it, we shall have to see.

I do hope though (is they ever do organize the trees) that they don't remove all the DR talents from the dps trees. I likes me a beefy DPSer.

Not to be a douche but so what? As you said its just your opinion. I know people whose opinion is that hybrids should be viable. This seems to be one of those hybrid vs. not hybrid specs. The possibly best thing to do at this time is to wait and see how swtor evolves, whether is pro hybrid, not pro hybrid or indifferent. All in all its the developers opinion that matters.

Ok ok, I did make an exaggerated fallacy there, the point I was trying to make is not counting gear, a lower level can stand a chance against a higher level. The classes might stink until they get their bread and butter move (hidden strike and acid blade for op's). A geared level 50 is still going to own all, but its not that a regular level 50 will defeat a whole team of lower levels. Gear based versus level based in warzones at least.

It seems like swtor isn't going for the lvl 50 moves equal pwnage. Makes some sense because level 50's are grouped with lvl 10s. They still have an advantage but lower levels do stand a chance.

To me, it feels as if they put PvP oriented talents into these trees. Unremitting is such an awesome pvp based talent for obvious reasons. Sure it would make one hell of a defensive talent for tanking, but I feel as if it were designed for pvp. Second win honestly isn't that good of a talent either way... 10% of your health healed every 2mins (1min 30secs talented)? We already have 3 defensive abilities, one that even restored 30% of our health (for a limited time of course). Second wind is once again a more pvp oriented talent, imo. 4% damage reduction is pretty nice. Though if I do remember correctly in rift, a lot of the "dps" trees did have damage reduction talents in them. This was for two reasons. First is pve aoe situations. It seems like every dang boss EVER wanted to aoe the heck out of the raid! Also it was nice to take reduced damage in pvp situations. Honestly protector should be in the defensive tree. that is just way to good to be a random pvp talent in a damage tree. For pvp tankage I LOVE force clap! Now it is my view that pvp tanks should be the ones peeling, and man does a 2sec stun (talented 3secs from the shared tree Focus) help. This gives you tree stuns total and a spammable AoE 50% slow. Blade barrier gives a bigger bubble than 500. In my level 40 gear, it gave about a 1k damage bubble (from what I saw). I tested this by using it before a hit that would normally do between 900-1000 damage and it said absorb so . It does seems to scale with gear, plus it is a no cost move after a force leap. With improved sunder strike there isn't much of a need for the 2 stacks of sunder armor on lightsaber throw. True it would be cool to have, but it also might be considered a bit much. Lastly, from my tanking experiences, the sole tanking tree won't have all the tanking talents (mainly talking about the 1-3 tiers). I lot of those talents should and can be used by other trees due to the fact that you get to spend 10 points in another tree. The other trees need a few talents beneficial to all trees (specifically imp. sunder assault, perseverance, swelling winds and second wind). These are beneficial to the Defense tree and to tanking in general, but they are placed in other trees because you get 10 extra points to spend. You can still get them, but its more specialized depending on where you are spending your points. I really hope I made sense and wasn't babbling like a mad man xD! Also I do play a Sith Juggernaut and tried to switch the abilities names to the Guardian names but some might have leaked through. P.S. In swtor I have been playing more pvp than pve (contrary to WoW) so please don't think I am upset in any way by what I consider to be PvP oriented talents.