Thanks for this post. Amidst the people telling me to shut up because i 'hate SWTOR' (despite the many 'I love this game's in my OP), this is a refreshing counterargument. I wish TOR did have quests where we interacted with them more, rather than from a briefing Holo. You're right, our companions are much more immersive as characters than the legendary heroes. I wish we did more with them than standing on the ship and talking to them after spamming companion gifts. Perhaps the many SWTOR references flew by me. Not quite as obvious, but I concede it may be due to my lack of American pop culture knowledge. Incidentally this is my first thread on the forums reviewing the game in any way, so if it offends you that I've compared this game to WoW, keep in my mind my opinion and I'm not forcing it down your throat. Thanks for your many responses to the thread. I love SWTOR, and I've held out for a year and a half hoping for something that would push it to the level it's meant to be. It hasn't happened; everything to this point has been playing catch-up with WoW, and the CM has effectively removed my hopes of getting something cool by earning it, instead of by buying it. Please read: not quitting SWTOR. I love my Shadow, but I think I'll be spending a little more time with my Death Knight from now on. But I'll still be pressing Q every once in a while wondering why he doesn't go into stealth.

This isn't a rant. I've been thinking about this for a while before finally penning my thoughts down, and I thought I'd share them and see if any one feels the same way. Apologies for the somewhat edgy title; how else would you click on this in the first place? TL;DR: SWTOR didn't sell out to the CM; it never had "life" in the first place. WoW is light years ahead, is constantly evolving faster, with a strong foundation and a company that loves its game. <Long Version> So I've played SWTOR since early access. I was excited for it, because it looked like WoW, played like WoW, and I actually really liked WoW. With the breathtaking story that was in KotOR 1 and (kind of) 2, it had loads going for it. I loved SWTOR. I like lightsabers, and since I quit WoW in WotLK, everything felt just right at home. I wasn't terribly impressed by the class stories (I've played five, perhaps only the JK one stood out so far), but I had fun. Something felt off though. Let me try to point-form this (spoilers ahead!): 1. With such a rich lore pool from KotOR 1 and 2, why were all the characters so forgettable? We get a few notable characters, like Satele Shan, Malgus and Jace Malcom. Forgive my shallow knowledge of TOR lore, but even with my Warcraft 3-based knowledge of Warcraft lore I immediately recognised Tyrande Whisperwind, Thrall, Sylvanas and the many, many other heroes of WC3. They were in prominent positions, and featured heavily in the storyline. Where are Carth Onasi, Visas Marr, Canderous Ordo, or at least their notable descendants? All we get are lame-boss Revan and his unimpressive HK, with a few scattered references here and there of them. I get that it's 300 years past KotOR 1 and 2. But it doesn't forgive the fact that the game can't make you care about the random NPC questgivers. They come in, ask you to fetch/kill something, and are never seen again for the rest of the game. For a game sold based on its story, this shouldn't be happening. 2. Developer pride WoW has plenty of little tidbits that tell you Blizz really cares about its behemoth of a game. Easter eggs here and there that make the game scream character, such as perhaps a Jaws reference in the form of a shark named Gnaws, or the inexplicable barfight in the middle of Orgrimmar inn. These don't have to be added in content patches; they were built from the ground up into the game. In SWTOR, we get unclickable background characters. Nar Shardaa's casino is the most painful reminder of this: a whole, beautiful casino and nothing is clickable but the elevator!? You probably know what I'm talking about if you've played WoW. It's just something you don't miss. 3. The feeling of unfinished-ness You know how your companions will tell you that they're "going off to do a mission"? Then the screen blacks out, and poof they've returned! Somehow these feel like companion missions were meant to be there. Then the lines of "I'll be right back" were hastily recorded to fill in the blanks when the devs ran out of time to code the new missions in. Sometimes they'll even return saying they've "grown more powerful". Notably HK-51 does that, a lot. Yeah... checked your stats, no change buddy. It's this feeling of incompleteness and wasted potential that reinforces the feeling of a game without a soul. I had more things to share, but I didn't realise I'd be writing an essay on this and I have to go. Maybe later, with more responses to this thread. To summarise my other thoughts: Armor models, No class quests, Technical limitations. Putting my flame shield up here --> <--. I'm no hater; I love this game and I love my five 50s. But I have confidence that WoW will continue to grow and evolve, while SWTOR's life is now in the CM. Imagine if Blizzard was developing this game instead of EAWare, just for a second. I'll still be around, because I have friends in the game I care about. But I don't expect much from SWTOR, not any more.

9/10 good giggle, would have been more convincing if it was murican on australia 'surva'

I think Infernixx has provided the most mature viewpoints on the issue so far.

Don't usually respond to calling out, but I felt you might be a little misinformed there. 1. SirCopperfield is a troll. He clearly didn't get his 50s deleted 'by his wife', and his 'thanks' is to continue trolling people like you. 2. My thread, though it grew unexpectedly big, was hardly the first one about the Ilum boosting issue. I wanted a response so we could all know whether it was legit and we could carry on with it this weekend. I proposed the best solution, in my opinion, if we couldn't. Removing bolster altogether was unexpected, but whatever. 3. You called it a design oversight. Clearly, oversights are meant to be corrected.

Legacy of Leadership allows you to sell stuff in 5 seconds.

He would probably be the anti-Dulfy of SWTOR.

I would definitely read that.

I like this post much.

I think the magic words were: "This was not a part of the intended design of the Gree event running simultaneous to the Double XP Weekends."

Aaaand there you go. The answer to the thread. Thanks Eric.

You were doing it wrong.

Anyway, I wanted to focus this thread back on what I started it for: apart from a response from the devs, your ideas on solutions for the 'method', or whether there should even be one in the first place. There are already too many threads debating whether or not it's a good thing, so let's not go there.

They should totally add this as a Cartel Market item. Tradeable in-game. I'd like to hear the arguments against this though.

And that's why I leveled my sniper!

I thought about this... and if you add it all up, after grinding for 15 hours you'd still have to do your class quests, grab datacrons and do your companion quests to be on par with a quested 50. When you mash everything together I reckon you'd take slightly less time than a regular toon to hit 50.

Haha my apologies if I came across as "I've done it, now I don't want others to have it". Maybe there's a hint of that there, but I think everyone feels a small sense of pride with the number of 50s you have, regardless of whether you brag about it or how small that sense of pride is. It's something you earned. My main contention was with the fact that it doesn't appear to be a legitimate way of leveling, with the number of 'hoops' you have to jump through and the special confluence of factors that allow for this method. I felt a little dirty grinding this way and it certainly felt like an exploit. I'd still like a yellow response though If it turns out that this is all working as intended, then hey, I know what I'm doing this weekend. Thanks for your replies though. Acerbic, but polite. I can deal with that

As the title suggests, I think we're all waiting for a response on the practice of grinding from 1X - 50 on Ilum by killing the same Heroic mobs over and over again. It's hardly a heroic experience, and there are many differing opinions on it, which I'd rather not get into here. Personally, I enjoyed getting a few levels on my Sniper with the method, which was otherwise going to lie dormant until I got a couple other alts to 50, so I'm not exactly against it. I do however recognise the long-term detriments of this quick level grind. I say let everyone who's already done it keep their levels, but patch it up so that only level 45+ will get bolstered on Ilum.

Or go to the PvP zone, which is where most people who actually want to do the daily should be doing it anyway. Half the time taken especially since the mobs all downgrade a 'grade'.

I feel for your situation, but I hope they don't increase cash flow! There are drawbacks to everything and this is one of them; that only XP is doubled and your rate of comp affection, alignment points, cash and valor gain stays the same. Fund yourself with crew skills, doing bonus quests and the works. They still pay out

Heya! I run it on my 2011 Macair 11" Bootcamping Windows 8 on the lowest settings, and it runs fine. Framerate isnt great but I can quest and do FPs on it. I use it for when I don't want to carry around my heavier laptop or I'm not at home to use my desktop. Running it on bootcamp definitely beats trying to VM it. I ran it on Parallels and it was unplayable even on lowest settings; only good for GTN and crew skills. I hope this helps!

Calling it, this is their cool promotion.

Man at least have the decency to put spoiler tags! As a mod you should know better!

It's exactly how I felt today, with this patch. Initially I was excited but now I feel completely alienated. I'm going to bookmark this thread and come back and read this to remind myself why I won't be playing any more.

I get why the decision was made, but as of now, seeing the really, really cool stuff like Revan's, Malak's and the Handmaiden outift out on the CM, as well as the really cool speeders like the Skiffs only available on the CM, has made me decide that there isn't a point to grinding any more. I play the game for achievements. I want to be able to say: hey, I did this, I earned my loot, and I'm a little better than X% of the game's population. This sounds bad, but if you think about it, that's why a lot of us grind so hard. To show off. To be proud of something. With the CM items all I'm showing off is my ability to spend money, and unfortunately the stuff in the packs are really awesome. I wish the world was different, and the game did well financially and retained all its subs, and we could earn these items from achievements and doing stuff in the game. Perhaps by completing a long story chain I could have earned Malak's Boots, and after killing the Dread Masters I'd pick up Malak's Mask, which one of them could be wearing. There is no pride to be had in grinding with your wallet. The best stuff will always be in the packs. I guess I could use some time off this game. I fear Bioware are going down a dark path I cannot follow.