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Bluebpy

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Posts posted by Bluebpy

    figured out why the game runs terrible with lots of people(Texture atlas)

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    So this all ties in with Biowares High res texture explanation regarding the texture atlas.

     

    So you are in Ilum or in the fleet and Chug Chug Chug your FPS drops and stutters.

     

    Well I think i know why this is happening and why the Chug happens. This all ties to what bioware said that their system only uses high res textures in cinematics and NOT ingame.

     

    Well....

     

    the game is constantly switching from high resolution textures to low resolution textures on player models (not environment)

     

    Zoom in all the way and look at a player model, now move a few steps. you will see the player model switch from low res to high res.

     

    I've been doing this all over the fleet and it happens pretty consistently. I guess the reason why it chugs is because the game is trying to switch texture resolutions on all players back and forth whenever you move.

     

    This happens on ilum as well

     

    Test it for yourselves

     

    Please note it will only do this for a little bit then it will stop. You have to go like 500 yards away and come back to where you were for it to start the low to high res cycle

    Illum pvp and being Banned

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Had a question... im level 43 and i wanted to check out what the big fuss is all about in illum. I heard that people are getting banned for going there if its above their level...

     

    Would a level 43 get banned for going there? it's not like im lvl 12 or anything

     

     

    Greatly appreciated thanks!

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Sorry but if the textures we're currently seeing in cut-scenes are the "hi-res" textures, that's pretty sad. I have literally seen games with superior texture quality on their normal-camera views than BW's cut-scene, "hi-res" textures.

     

    I seriously wonder how people can continue to support the idea that this engine isn't poorly optimized. They have to kil texture quality, remove AA and include only 8x AF to get the game to run well, and it still has trouble with varying hardware configurations, often on the highest end systems. If what BW has in current cut-scenes is what they consider "hi-res" textures that's fairly disappointing.

     

    How i feel man......... how i feel

     

    http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liylt3rAnh1qzsokro1_500.png

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Bluebpy

    I'm going to ask the development team to look into this, but I'd ask you to pull back on some of the more extreme speculation. Posts like this do not help us to have rational informed discussions about the issues that we are facing.

     

    There is, to my knowledge, no single DLL that's responsible for a multitude of problems across the game. For example, our 'ability delay' issue is being addressed by the development team right now, and I've been told there are dozens of fixes potentially being looked at to help improve things. There's no single magic fix (although some fixes may have more of an effect than others).

     

    I'll also say right now that we're not 'remotely rendering' textures and sending to your client via your internet connection; that would be some impressive technology and if we were doing it, is likely something we'd have talked about before now.

     

    I'll seek developer comment on this, but I just want to caution anyone from overreacting.

     

     

    To StephenReid........ and well everyone else who has been participating in this thread since the start

     

     

    The reason why people think there is more to what you are saying comes down to performance

     

    you have high end machines that are struggling with low res textures, other mmo's run fine, high end games i.e. battlefield 3 run fine. swtor struggles in fleets and in open world. the game chugs like its loading assets (paging issue it seems) and as a result you are down to 20fps.

     

    Most people can't fathom how the game could be released when it runs so bad. Some (myself included) could let this slide if it was running high res textures and that's what was causing low performance (as per your 1st post/explanation on textures)

     

    The fact is, the game is running low res textures, looks ugly, and is bringing down rigs with 12-16gigs of ram running i-7's and high end videocards in sli/xfire to its knee's

     

    This is normal? Then you or someone else from bioware on a joystix interview say that its our rigs that are the problem.

     

    This is why we think there is wayyyy more to the story then you and bioware are saying. There are too many holes in your story.

     

    Don't get me wrong, i love swtor but my god the engine runs terrible

     

     

    Bioware.. we are not console gamers, we aren't sheep.

     

    We are pc gamers. We are smart and will find problems and call you out on them....

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Bluebpy

    To Stephan........ and well everyone else who has been participating in this thread since the start

     

     

    The reason why people think there is more to what you are saying comes down to performance

     

    you have high end machines that are struggling with low res textures, other mmo's run fine, high end games i.e. battlefield 3 run fine. swtor struggles in fleets and in open world. the game chugs like its loading assets (paging issue it seems) and as a result you are down to 20fps.

     

    Most people can't fathom how the game could be released when it runs so bad. Some (myself included) could let this slide if it was running high res textures and that's what was causing low performance (as per your 1st post/explanation on textures)

     

    The fact is, the game is running low res textures, looks ugly, and is bringing down rigs with 12-16gigs of ram running i-7's and high end videocards in sli/xfire to its knee's

     

    This is normal? Then you or someone else from bioware on a joystix interview say that its our rigs that are the problem.

     

    This is why we think there is wayyyy more to the story then you and bioware are saying. There are too many holes in your story.

     

    Don't get me wrong, i love swtor but my god the engine runs terrible

     

     

    Bioware.. we are not console gamers, we aren't sheep. We are pc gamers. We are smart and will find problems and call you out on them....

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    AntiAliasing is coming in the next patch.

     

     

    And wow makes it look like a joke? Seriously? I mean, wow does run very smooth, but wow is SO EXTREMELY low poly. Even when they launched, WoW was behind the times. It looks like Quake 1! They've got some cartoony textures that hide how few polys there are, but damn the game is pretty ugly. SWTOR is 1,000x ahead of WoW graphically.

     

    You're acting like gameplay, story, antialisasing, poly count, art style and direction, animations, etc. can all be summed up with one word. They can't. You can't compare two games that directly. Its apples and oranges. WoW is smoother, but looks much worse. TOR has better story, better graphics, but just came out and isn't optimized. There's no objectively "better".

     

    Yet wow has options for high res textures, 64 bit client, tons of advanced options that make it look decent.

     

    Its just sad that there is NOTHING to up the graphics in this game and god knows how long till something comes by.

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Bluebpy

    Agreed. I think the problem comes from The Hero Engine. It is a very, VERY expensive 3rd party engine, and its brand new, so it hasn't been tested much in a production game. The developer tools are AMAZING (seriously, some of the best I've seen, and I've worked in-industry), so it allows them to make all these huge, detailed planets. I really helps their ability to build the game.

     

    But it would seem the rendering engine that comes with those tools isn't quite as robust as we would like. And while good tools are important for good content, all the content in the world is no fun on a bad game-play experience.

     

    Between Bioware and Simutronics, I'm sure they'll work out the kinks and optimize the engine better. Its just a question of how long its going to take.

     

    For instance, The Hero Engine may still be single-threaded. Ugh. Supposedly they're working on multi-threading it so it'll run smoother on multiple cores.

     

    HEY, maybe thats what that second process is all about! ;)

     

    I hate comparing the game to wow because to me this is much better (ex wow player)

     

    however...... Wow is a VERY old game. Their engine runs great, works of multiple cores and has a 64 bit client.

     

    swtor comes out basically end of 2011 and is single threaded, runs low textures, etc etc

     

    I mean how can that be? I understand why they are using atlas but why not include the option. unless it actually crashes the client? least give us a choice?

     

     

    I don't wanna come off like all i'm doing is ************ but its pretty evident the game runs awful in many situations. But its running LOW RES textures... is the engine that bad?

     

    It's just mind boggling to me

     

    I could understand if i was running their high res textures via an option and they say it won't run well and i'm getting the performance i am now... but on low res textures.... gimme a break

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Read the response

     

    Makes Sense. However, it still doesn't fix the problem that the engine runs terrible... even on high end machines.

     

    so..... we are running LOW RES TEXTURES when in game (outside of cinematics) yet it still runs terrible?

     

    Does this not seem like a problem?

     

    I love the response... I hope bioware keeps communicating with the community

     

    still........ fix ur engine.......

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Bluebpy

    Sigh.. let me take the time to respond to you, and explain. Hopefully you'll take the time to read this, and it won't get buried under other pages.

     

     

    Yes, your computer runs Crysis well, I'm sure it does. This does not mean your computer can handle 5+ versions of TOR running at the same time.

     

    It ends up computers are kinda complicated!! ;)

     

    For instance, lets take Minecraft. Really, REALLY simple game, right? The textures are low-res, the models are just BLOCKS, literally just cubes. So your computer should be able to run about 1,000,000+ versions of Minecraft at the same time, since it can handle Crysis, right?

     

    Well, yes and no. You're right that Crysis is 100x as detailed in models as Minecraft. The models are in the thousands of polys / tris and minecraft is in the tens of polys.

     

    However, Crysis has its own efficient, ground-up C++ engine, which handles those assets as well as possible, uses the DirectX game library for low-level asset management and rendering, and other technologies. In short: lots and lots and lots of people have worked for a long time to make it as efficient as bloody possible.

     

    Minecraft, on the other hand, runs on Java, which is a virtual machine which has to run on top of your computer. The code does not run natively (which is to say, as machine code, in the language of your processor. You see, different processors have different architectures, which require the program to be compiled again in that language. To avoid having to recompile, java runs as an interpreted language where a program called an interpreter, java, translates the minecraft java code into code your machine can run, but it does this as it goes, so it is much slower than native C++ code. Java's been worked on for years, so it is much faster now, much faster than it used to be, but the overhead is such that it is still much, much slower than C++. You could *never* run Crysis in Java. It would run too slow. )

     

    You could have a machine that is liquid nitrogen cooled up to 5GHz or something stupid and you still couldn't run Crysis level games in a Java environment.

     

    See what I'm getting at?

     

    My computer can run Crysis 2 smooth, but sometimes Minecraft runs slow. Its the same computer. And minecraft is not, I assure you, sending textures or animations over the internet. lol.

     

    There ARE high res textures in the game right now, if you put your settings on HIGH then during cutscenes you can see a difference in quality, bump mapping is present where it is not on the medium level textures. Go to your ship and click the intercom, it'll flash to high res and right back to medium, this should be obvious and dramatic if you look closely.

     

    Why high resolution textures aren't available in the main game when the texture assets are there is anybody's guess. There has to be some bug the developers are working on. I agree with you, if it was just a performance issue, they should allow it, and some people could handle it and some people would have to turn down to medium.

     

    This is indeed an area of concern and people are attempting to get information from the devs about it. The community leaders have said they are speaking with the development team to make sure they don't give us the wrong information.

     

    Again, I can force AntiAliasing on my computer locally using the Nvidia Control Manager for my Graphics Card. If you can do that, it means the video you're seeing is being rendered from my graphics card, locally. It would not apply it to a random video stream, only things that are being sent through the DirectX pipeline.

     

    There are lots of other reasons why we can verify this is NOT happening, as I've stated on other posts. I won't repeat them.

     

    I'm a systems admin and an avid gamer... i understand the technical side of it. Not a programmer.......... i appreciate you trying to explain.

     

    I read your past posts in this thread and i somewhat agree with you only on some points. I agree... there is noway everything is done server side... it would not be possible, in fact its ludicrous.

     

    Having said that... there seems to be something in regards the models being done... We don't have the answers obviously but i mean.. when there's LOTS of smoke.. chances are it's a fire. Something is going on server side that is causing these problems. All speculation but it does explain ability delay, lag with lots of players around, Maps disappearing..( i mean if assets are loaded on memory there is zero reason for map contents to disappear when i hit M)

     

    For all we know its just a very inefficient code....

     

    All I'm saying is what OP has found is probably the smoking gun relating to high res texture issues and performance issues

     

    The textures............ in the early beta( PLEASE EARLY BETA PPL SPEAK UP ABOUT THIS) high res textures were in the entire game... not just cut scenes..... they then disabled this... and made it possible only on cut scenes. There is Zero reason for this, really. think about it...... there is no reason

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Bluebpy

    To everyone saying its the hardware that causes FPS problems is a fool. Most people posting about bad performance who post specs have pretty decent rigs. This doesnt include the people who are running low low end systems.......

     

    anyways

     

    There are people in here (myself included) that should be able to run 5+ instances of this game without any issues and have good fps.

     

    I-7 920 overclocked to 4.3ghz

    16 gigs of ram

    2 460's overclocked in sli

     

    run battlefield 3 maxed out at over 70 fps and swtor runs at 20 fps in the fleet and in open world goes from 100 fps to 30 and chugs along for 15 seconds then back up? hardware? don't think so

     

    It's a joke. as for people saying "there are high res textures in the game right now, on your ship in cut scenes and intercom" if you knew anything about this game you would know that in the early beta there were high res textures in the entire game and not cut scenes. the game looked better... night and day difference. So now they only include them in the cuts cenes only? why? what purpose does that have?

     

    There is ZERO reason to disable high res textures. if the end user cant run "high" settings then they lower it. Forcing high res off and then in the PTR erasing the high option and making med to high says a lot.......

     

    open your eyes ppl..... there is something going on and OP has found SOMETHING that may explain some things. OP has found the smoking gun that will lead to the REAL reason why high res textures are off and why performance is terrible.

     

    Now lets see if Bioware actually gives as a proper answer or if its BS

    Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I KNEW something was wrong. There is noway that the game runs at 100+fps (which it should on my rig) then drops down to 20, 30, 40 in some areas. it chugs like its a paging issue when I go to the imperial fleet

     

    In some cases im on my mount and my fps will drop by 50 and pause, go, pause go....

     

    Im running an I-7 920 Overclocked to 4.3Ghz

    16 Gigs of Ram

    2 EVGA 460's in SLi

     

    I can run Battlefield 3 maxed out at 1920x1080 at over 70fps and swtor runs at 20fps in some areas? no way... like I said i knew something was horribly wrong.

     

    This all makes sense with what the OP has posted. I was wondering what that 2nd process was.

     

    I remember high res textures in the early beta. I had no idea why, even with nvidia console the game still looked bad. All makes sense now.....

     

    Also if the server is sending out clients Textures and game data because its being rendered on their end, how will this affect my bandwidth? I need to check out netlimiter and see what the total bandwidth is here because some of us (in canada) has bandwidth caps.

     

    noway in hell im stayed subbed if this game eats away at my monthly bandwidth cap.

     

    Hopefully Bioware will response to this

     

    Love this game but

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