DarthFanatic
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Posts posted by DarthFanatic
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Anything out of balance is NEVER a good thing. Sith is like religious fanatics in todays society of religion number 1. Jedi are religious fanatics in todays society number 2. NO matter what, they will always be convinced that they're right, and if you don't follow them you're wrong.
Qui'gon , Mace Windu, and Revan are all immediate force users, that found clarity and balance in the force.
Qui'gon almost fell to the darkside of the force by letting his emotions take over him, while Obiwon was still a padawan, but he came back realizing what was happening. But from that moment he never entirely listened to the Jedi Council, because he followed his gut feeling and heart, and did what he personally believed best.
Mace Windu in Revenge of the Sith, during his encounter with palapatine, he specifically said, "He is too dangerous to keep alive." When Jedi would usually take the Sith into custody and have him stand trail(as Anakain responded with this).
To everything their most be a balance, anything that is too far to the right or too far to the left, can be cause of harm.
Why do so many people can hung over that Mace Windu tried to kill Sidious? He was a highly dangerous Sith Lord that worked his master plan in front of the Jedi for years. Mace Windu just fought Palpatine so he obviously knows that he's an immensely powerful Sith Lord. Knowing just how powerful Palpatine is, I wouldn't want to risk taking him into custody either. I doubt Mace Windu could even hold Palpatine until he was detained in some sort of cell, and how could a cell even contain Palpatine? Palpatine would escape easily if Mace Windu tried to take him into custody and the Jedi would be back at square one again.
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I'm Luke. and I plead the Sith
Bold corrected.
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I agree. The story of Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker. His rise, fall and redemption.
There are a lot of otherwise talented writers who want to write stories. The publishers want to make a ton of money, so instead of just writing a good story in its own right, they try to tack on the Star Wars logo. The EU novels would be just as well (or poorly) written if they mentioned nothing from Star Wars.
Again, the galaxy (known galaxy) is very large and certainly larger than the story of Anakin Skywalker. I don't see what's wrong with writing stories what happens prior, during, and after the story of Anakin Solo. I agree some of the EU has been crazy but that happens when you have so many different writers working on one shared galaxy. Plus, Lucas didn't help because he won't let the big 3 get killed off.
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No. This is exactly where most EU authors go wrong. How is another Jedi vs. Sith plot any different than any other Jedi vs. Sith plot we've had in the entire franchise? If we want more Jedi vs. Sith, why not have a series take place during the Late Sith Wars, which, mind you, lasted a millenium? Or the Sith Wars before that time period? Why can't authors come up with an enemy besides the Sith? And no, not something like the Yuuzhan Vong.
Better yet, why can't ROTJ(or at least the Thrawn trilogy) be an end to all the conflict in the galaxy? The EU authors that write most of the post-ROTJ crap think that there needs to be a big threat to the galaxy. So then we get crap like the Yuuzhan Vong and Darth Krayt's One Sith.
And guess what? Because of that, what happens in ROTJ is meaningless. The galaxy isn't at peace. The Sith aren't wiped out from existence. Darth Vader's sacrifice doesn't matter anymore.
We can't even achieve world wide peace on our planet. Now imagine sustaining peace in the a galaxy filled with hundreds (thousands?) of planets with their own culture, nationality, ambitions, etc. and that's not even including all the ancient threats or possible things laying beyond the known galaxy. Simply, maintaining galaxy wide peace is lofty but impossible on a galactic scale. Conflict will inevitably occur at some point whether from within (Rebels trying to secure a legitimate government with remnants of the Empire left) or from the outside (Yuuzhan Vong, Sith returning, or Aboleth for examples).
Darth Vader's sacrifice was meaningful because he stopped the Empire by disposing it of its leadership for enough time to give the Rebels the chance to "catch up." Thanks to Vader, the Rebels had a much better chance of retaking the galaxy and giving Luke time to train further so he could later challenge Palpatine. And btw, I really dislike the Dark Emperor idea because it does belittle Vader's sacrifice a bit but he still stalled the Empire.
Edit: Firesaber did a better job of me explaining why Vader's sacrifice was important to the force. I just described how Vader's sacrifice affected the galaxy for the Republic/Empire.
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Leia would get beat badly, if I recall correctly she never really became enthusiastic with jedi training.
I'm assuming Leia gets dedicated and sufficient training as a Sith Lady. Sith Lords/Ladies aren't known for being "unethusiastic" about their training.
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leia becomes seriously ******
Sith Lord (Lady?) Leia vs Grandmaster Luke? Sounds like an awesome fight if it could happen.
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It was the best out of the prequels but still had several problems IMO:
-Battle droids still talking (I get its supposed to be funny but its stupid)
-R2-D2 whole scene with the droids
-Dooku vs Obiwan and Anakin: force powers looked awful (too much CGI Lucas) and why is Obiwan always getting knocked out of these fights in the stupidest ways possible? I don't get why he couldn't have gotten up and helped out. Also the Emperor's weird excited noises make me laugh
-Sidious vs Jedi Masters: cool except I wish it didn't look so awful when Sidious kills four jedi in a couple seconds. I get that he moves fast but the acting and the way it was shot always came across as a poor job. Could have been better executed.
-Didn't feel like the transition from unsure jedi knight to full blown sith was handled well for Anakin in regards to him immediately starting to kill kids.
-Anakin vs Obiwan fight was way too long and honestly laughable at times when they were spinning their lightsabers around for a good two seconds. The first half was cool but them fighting on ropes and nearly on top of lava was too much and too long. Also, Anakin's dismemberment scene was poorly though out. An experienced fighter like Anakin wouldn't make such an idiotic jump like that.
-Grievous was a joke the whole movie. No one besides me in my family got why he was wheezing/coughing (should have explained that) and for supposedly being a "******," Grievous fought so poorly against Obiwan.
Pros:
-Yoda vs Sidious was awesome!
-Anakin's march on the jedi temple very sinister and captured the right mood.
-Emperor vs Mace Windu was cool too
-Anything with the Emperor for the most part was cool.
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Caedus, because he, like mentioned before, was a prodigy in the force and his knowledge of the force rivaled Luke's at the time, which is no small feat considering Luke is an EU god. He brutally injured Luke in a duel. Caedus beat Jaina, the Sword of the Jedi, in their first duel even with Luke lending her his strength and Caedus losing his arm during the fight. In their final duel, Caedus, weak and distracted with his daughter's fate, potentially could have killed Jaina as she killed him: "Knowing he would die, Caedus had the option of attacking his twin, as her strike left her open to retaliation, and taking his killer with him. He declined to do so, using his last moments to contact Djo in the Force and warn her that she and Allana were in danger."
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F.Y.I. A lightsaber battle IS a battle in the force as well.
You use the Force to augment your physical capabilities several times over, as well as using foresight and wielding the power to guide your lightsaber to it's mark.
Like BrandonSM already mentioned and you mentioned too, the Force augments your physical capabilities but its not what I would term a force battle. A true force battle would be one with minimal to no lightsaber combat (Yoda vs Sidious as BrandonSM mentioned). At Luke's point in his career, he could match Sidious's lightsaber skills but he wasn't an equal when it came to force technique, skill, knowledge, or whatever you want to call it. Luke still had several more galactic conflicts to go through before reaching his current self in EU. Therefore, Luke was not nearly as strong as he currently is when he fought Kun's spirit. Present EU Luke would destroy Kun in a heartbeat. Spirit Kun does not compare to Aboleth.
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Please don't trade any of the story. If anything, add more story into the game.
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Sith's = Kill and backstab every other Sith around you.
Jedi = Yes Master, No Master, I ANSWER TO THE REPUBLIC ONLY!
Imperial Agent = Sith's personal bi*ches.
Trooper = THE COUNCIL WILLS IT!
Smuggler = Gimme the loot gimme the loot
Bounty Hunter = You show credits, i kill.
So by those points...Smugglers and Bounty Hunters > The Rest. Not being mindless followers or always having to fear of backstabbers.
However between Jedi's and Sith's. I rather be a Jedi than a Sith. Then if i would've gotten bored of it (roleplay perspective) i would've gone Dark/Fallen Jedi.
Smugglers and Bounty Hunters aren't much better. They're mindless followers of credits. So whats better, following your ideals/beliefs or money? Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration but I much prefer playing a Sith/Jedi (or Imperial Agent) because you're fighting for something you believe in whether its the Republic, Empire, or something else.
I play as a Sith but my next character will probably be a Jedi. Jedi are awesome and remind me of samurais, paladins, or super heroes. My favorite super hero has always been Batman and playing a Jedi that values justice as much as Batman is appealing.
Both sides are cool.
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Luke still had defeated Reborn Palpatine in a lightsaber duel at that point, only one other person in the EU managed that and we all know how powerful he was.
In a lightsaber duel, not a battle of the force. Luke wasn't the one to finish off the Emperor anyways. Exar Kun used the force against Luke and isn't Yavin 4 a strong darkside place too?
Either way, Luke still had a long way to go before being the current Luke he is today. He wasn't even Grandmaster at that point yet. Luke has evolved and become much, much stronger since the Exar Kun attack. Now Luke is fighting Aboleth, who would crush Exar Kun.
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Actually no, Exar Kun at his prime is magnitudes more powerful than Darth Bane in his prime, Exar Kun as a spirit put Grand Master Skywalker into a coma, was mind controlling the students and the beasts around the NJO's academy and was disintegrating students at whim, all the while rebuilding his body which would've made him even more powerful.
Exar Kun is a bad*** but lets be more accurate here, Luke wasn't even close to his prime when this happened. I doubt Exar Kun could pull that same move on Luke now.
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Palpatine and the current emperor Vitiate are about equal in power. there are SEVERAL threads where people have drawn this out to every book they appeared on.
I am not asking for you to take my word just get on the wiki and read about vitiate.
And those several threads have provided numerous evidence showing Palpatine trumps Vitiate considerably in power.
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Drain or not, we've been waiting since KoToR to see Revan again. It's a shame they brought him back just to get rid of him as quickly as possible. He was a very interesting character, with a unique perspective of the Force.
I hate what they did with the Exile. Where'd the ****** General chick go who took down Sion, Nihlus, and Traya? She's jealous of Bastilla? She retains unflinching faith in the Light Side after KoToR II? Did she learn nothing from Kreia?
And poor T3 and HK...
I have said this before and I'll say it again, they blew their load too early. All these years of build up, fleshing out the heroes and villains of the Old Republic, only to kill them all off in the release of a game that's supposed to last?
And don't get me started on Vitae...totally belittles Nihlus, Palpatine, and all other great Sith, canon-wise.
Vitiate has nothing on Palpatine. Vitiate is still powerful but Palpatine did crazy stuff in EU.
I don't think we've see the last of Revan. No one in any fictional setting, especially Sci-fi/Fantasy, should be considered dead unless there is a body and even sometimes that doesn't guarantee death.
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For one side of the force being stronger, i think Knights said it best, that neither side is stronger than the other, they just wane and wax like the tides in the pull of the moon. Like when the terentateks started waking up, and you had to hunt them down.
As for maul not being sidious apprentice, even though sidious sidious stated it in the movies and it's quoted multiple times in the books, i suggest you look at star wars .com's databank and see for yourself that maul is listed as sith, and photo's of maul on the cannon website list maul as sidious's apprentice. you can argue authors takes on what maul actually was to sidious all you want the cannon films created by lucas, and the website creted under his license list maul as darth sidious' apprentice. even the book of the phantom menace states that sidious was furious about kenobi killing his APPRENTICE, and that it was a serious setback, nothing ever was said about maul being considered a tool. he was trained as sidious' weapon against the jedi. As for sidious considering maul a tool, a temporary weapon till he found a better apprentice, maul was sidious' apprentice, period, anakin wasn't even a footnote in the galaxy at the time sidious trained maul, and dooku wasn't even in the equation till after kenobi killed his apprentice on naboo.
I agree with most of the lists, except i think exar khun should be way higher. the man was pretty powerful after learning freedon nadds secrets.
Maul can be Sidious's apprentice but that doesn't mean Maul wasn't a tool either. Maul was a weapon to Sidious but I doubt Sidious ever thought Maul would be his successor. If Sidious was angry about Maul's death, it was because he spent years preparing Maul and now he needed a new weapon/tool. I don't see how Maul being Sidious's apprentice and Sidious viewing Maul as a tool are not compatible ideas.
Furthermore, I doubt Maul knew of Plagueis so it makes sense Maul was Sidious's "apprentice" since Maul believed Sidious to be the only Sith Lord at the time.
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Good list but didn't Luke help Jaina win the fight against Caedus? I didn't think it was just her own ability that let her beat Caedus so I don't know if i would rank her that high but she's definitely up there.
I also didn't know Qui-Gon rivaled Mace's lightsaber skill. Makes Maul more impressive than I thought he was before.
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Sidious annihilated all life on a planet with a dark side ritual and planned to use more to complete a ritual to annihilate all life in the galaxy? And stayed alive for over 1000 years?
Sith Emperor is all kinds of ridiculous. It's actually something that annoyed me about the Jedi Knight storyline in this game.
Power creep in general is a big problem in the expanded universe.
Sidious destroyed all life on a planet with force lightning (correct me if I'm wrong) by himself without a ritual and without dozens (or was it hundreds?) of sith lords helping. Sidious become immortal without using a ritual. Sidious doesn't depend on relics to be all powerful. Sidious is all powerful because of sheer will and his own power. Sidious can create and control worm holes that can destroy a fleet of ships. And he did that all in far less time than the Sith Emperor.
More detailed explanation from another poster on another thread:
A FEW SPOILERS TREAD CAUTIOUSLYImmortal doesn't mean invincible. Immortal is the ability to potentially live forever. Vitiate is immortal but isn't invincible. We also do know he dies as he doesn't exist in the later Canon. Sidious was immortal as well. He didn't need clone bodies. He could transfer his essence into anything. He used clone bodies because he preferred his own body. So he made replica's of his body in his physical prime and used those. In the very end he decided to transfer his essence into Anakin Solo.
It took another Jedi to step in the way and force Sidious to become one with the force. Again, Sidious was using the essence transfer ability. He'd transfer his essence into another being to live on through them. This IS immortality.
Sidious had the ability to drain the life of billions of beings at once. Much like Vitiate. He simply didn't consume them entirely and he didn't need a ritual to make himself immortal. Sidious was able to mind wipe billions of people at once. We never see Vitiate performing something on that large of a scale.
A ritual requires time and effort to put into action and a lot of preparation. Vitiate consuming a planet isn't a combat ability. He wouldn't be able to do this to Sidious. The sith lords he stole the life from were willing participants of Vitiate's ritual. So this isn't comparable.
Sidious was able to release wormholes in the middle of combat. These were capable of destroying planets though he never used them in such a manner. He did however use them to destroy an entire starfleet.
Sidious was a master of all the saber styles and forms. He was also described moving, as emperor reborn, faster than the eye can see. We have no description of Vitiate being able to do this. We have no knowledge of his saber performance. Going by lack of evidence we can't compare vitiate's saber abilities to Sidious.
Vitiate has been said to use artifacts and relics to bolster his power. Sidious does not use relics or artifacts. Vitiate is said to control other bodies while his main body is hidden away. This gives the assumption his main body is vulnerable to destruction. Sidious transported Luke who was on another planet to his side.
Sidious managed to take control of the entire republic and turn it into his empire. Sidious does not need to sleep. Sidious has been shown to have the most powerful force lightning in existence. If Sidious dies before he can transfer his essence he can do so as a spirit freely.
The emperor, as per the game once again, can not transfer bodies until his current one dies.
In effect. Vitiate uses a lot of trinkets and relics to bolster his power and Sidious does not. Despite that fact. Sidious has displayed far more power than Vitiate ever has. Your main argument is this.
"Vitiate had to use a ritual to destroy a planet" (Which Sidious can do without a ritual mind you) and he lived 1400 years. Set Harth lived 400 but was a weakling. Yoda lived 900 and wasn't as strong as Sidious. Anddedu also lived for well over a thousand years but was destroyed effortlessly by Darth Wyrrlok.
The sith code isn't about being immortal. It's about being free. The idea of a sith is to transcend physical limitations. In effect becoming Gods. One could argue sidious was the closest to achieve it. If it wasn't for Luke and his allies he would have.
Vitiate never had to contend with someone on Luke's level. Revan is not as powerful as Luke.
You also take destruction too lightly and if it's arguable you can't use it as fact. Arguable means opinion. Opinion isn't fact. If his ability to destroy is far beyond Vitiate's it means if he had to contend with Vitiate or Vitiate him Sidious would destroy him. Then his immortality would be gone.
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I think people should think about this:
"If you were to face an ancient Sith lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters."
―Kreia
Probably the first Sith's who won a war against the Rakata Empire are the strongest Sith ever existed (even they were the true pureblood, not this halfblood we got now...).
About Jedi i think Qui Gonn Jinn was pretty strong, as he was able to rediscover how become one with the force when everyone forget it (on the movies i mean), but its supposed that Anakin Skywalker was the strongest ever lived jedi/sith... but... Obi Wan said that "even he couldnt beat Master Yoda". If Palpatine was the strongest sith (as some people claims here) Yoda should be the strongest one as they tied on the third movie (and i would say only because Yoda was near his death).
But again, i think Kreia was right, centuries of peace makes people "confident" and very less skilled as they dont have to use their power. Probably a Sith Lord like Ludo Kressh could be stronger than everyone (as he didnt use even a lightsaber, used a cortosis sword).
And if people talk about "killing", i think Grievous (who wasnt even a full-Sith) was stronger than anyone, as he faced many jedis and killed them with his "half-power".
Sidious is the most powerful Sith. This is canon since GL has said so. If you don't believe me, then do some research and look up Sidious's accomplishments because he has done terrifying things not matched by other Sith Lords.
Sidious beat Yoda; they didn't tie. Luke is superior to Yoda in every way since EU has made him almost God like.
Grievous is a great fighter but he wouldn't stand a chance against anyone on these top 10 lists. Obiwan beat him easily and Mace Windu crushed Grievous with the force. People like Revan, Yoda, Luke, Caedus, Vader, and Sidious to name those off the top of my head would beat Grievous easily.
Are Sith really evil?
in Story and Lore
Posted · Edited by DarthFanatic
How am I dealing with absolutes? Killing is a last resort but Sidious was simply too powerful. Mace barely beat him in a lightsaber duel and he knows Sidious has kept himself cloaked from the whole Jedi Order while in the same city/planet. Knowing Sidious is a very strong duelist and powerful force user, how would Mace detain him? Certainly not by himself and 3 other Jedi Masters (on the council weren't they too?) got killed by Sidious in seconds. That's leaves Yoda who isn't present at the moment. Think about it realistically: how could Mace possibly detain Sidious? He can't and he knows that, which is why he knows he has to kill him.
People are also forgetting that Mace entered Sidious's room declaring Sidious under arrest and Sidious chose to start the fight, not Mace. If Mace kicked the door down and leapt at Sidious without hesitation, then that's a darkside choice. Giving Sidious a peaceful choice was the lightside option and Mace chose that.