CountOryansen
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Posts posted by CountOryansen
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Having some trouble burning the groups of adds that come out.
All dps target of target the tank assigned to the main shield guy and than AOE all the others.
We seem to be getting the other groups too quickly though.
What other strats are there available to try to manage these losers?
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There is an alternative method that is quite simple, every time you exit the shield/begin the fight, have a dps perform a single rotation on SC, it helps you escape that second DD, everytime I've used that strat we haven't gotten that second DD.
Thanks for the reply.
Thats some really good stuff, I will pass it on to the guys.
cheers.
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I advise getting some mentoring over the pushing SC to 20%. Reason is you can't do that on NiM, so if you get to NiM you then need to change up your strategy which could cause more wipes then necessary.
What DPS are you running with? If you get your two strongest DPS on SC they might be able to push the defensive systems. Our op make up for NiM is to usually have our two melee DPS (usually dual PT's or a MT/Marauder combo), and during the first 20% the operative healer even drops an orbital strike. Pushing that first 20% is the hardest due to a combo of tank threat starting at zero, timer counting down whilst still getting into position, and having to actually get the 20% before the second DD starts casting. If you do beat that first one, subsequent defensive systems triggers are easier as you get to start at a lower value due to DPS'ing during the cast (we usually push 3% during the cast, so we only need 17% before defensive systems is cast).
I hope that made sense, I kept getting interrupted as I was typing it.
Thanks for the reply.
really great stuff, i will pass it on to the guys.
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It's on stormcaller actually. Stormcaller is the one who does double destruction, so 3 dps attack him should do it.
Thanks for the reply.
We tried the 3 dps on storm last night and the 20% markers on storm still initiated the "defensive systems" phase.
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I heard this from a few others I ran with for ECHM, that a "double" double distruction is a sign of a problem.
One of our few problems on the Fire and Storm is the 2nd double D falls too close to defensive systems and auto quick drops the first lightning bubble on the tank hitting the dps with no defensive systems cast bar.
Can u take down storm and fire while getting two double D's per phase?
Are there other successful methods other than the 4 and 4 split?
What has worked for others doing HM storm and fire?
P.S "getting another guild" is not a solution
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Just for the conversation sake.
we are running,
BH tank
Jugg tank
Jugg dps
Merauder dps
BH dps
Sorc dps
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Are you at 15% during the 3rd, or 4th Jealous Male? If 3rd, then you actually have too much DPS, as I recall the hard enrage will not happen until after the 4th Jealous Male spawns (5:45 into fight). (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)
If you are close to 15% before the 3rd JM spawns then stop DPS until he is down then go all out on the boss during his soft enrage/spawning champion adds and hope you can keep enough ppl up to finish off the adds.
If you are getting a 4th JM spawn then, yes, there does need to be more DPS.
thanks again for the reply, i think i said it wrong.
We are hitting the hard enreage at 12-15% which usually happens 30 seconds or so after the 4th male (5:15 for male).
Here is how our scenario is playing out. 4th male spawns and boss is at 20% or so (5:15), we get him to 15% while still trying to finish off the male and adds and he enrages with all adds and male still up at 5:45.
Group wipes.
My main question is what strat for male and add downing is most efficient and gives most time on boss?
4 on adds 4 on male? 2 on adds 2 on male?
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6. Are you wasting as little time possible on the small adds? (aka letting your good AoE classes kill them)
Ex:
BH - Explosive Dart -> Death From Above -> go kill Jealous Male
Sorc - Force Storm 'till they die (+ procced Chain Lightning or Death Field) -> JM
Sin - (Death Field ->) JM
Agent - Orbital Strike (-> Plasma Probe) -> JM
Warrior -> JM
Healers could use a single AoE as well if they can afford it and your group has almost no AoE DPS.
Are you saying rdps on adds and mdps on male for all rotations?
what does your group do as a strat?
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The strat I laid out is only for the initial pull and then the first Jealous Male. After that, just revert back to doing whatever it is you are doing now.
The "2 on boss, 2 on adds" isn't really what I was getting at though. Not least because I can't know what your raid composition is. Mainly it's a "mDPS on the boss/jealous male, rDPS on the small adds as soon as they arrive at the red circle". I only mentioned 2+ ranged DPS on the adds - just in case your raid group was largely melee. *Someone* needs to attack the small adds, but if you have ranged people - it usually only needs 2 (in an 8man group) to AoE the small adds down.
The sequence of events would be something like this :-
- Tank-A pull the Boss.
- When Tank-A gets 2x stacks of incubation, Tank-B takes the boss. This is very early in the fight.
- Tank-A moves towards the ranged DPS and when the 2x incubations stacks spawn 2x add - the ranged DPS kill them and return to the boss. mDPS could help, but then why bother?
- After a while, a Jealous Male and a red circle will spawn. Ranged DPS kill the Jealous. The red circle is ignored.
- When Tank-B reaches 9 stacks of the incubation debuff. Do a tank swap.
- Almost immediately afterwards, the 2nd Jealous Male and associated circle spawn. Tank-B picks up the Jealous.
- Your mDPS swap onto the Jealous too. rDPS can stay on the boss. That's up to you**.
- Someone goes to stand near the red circle and wait for the 9x stacks of incubation on Tank-B to trigger. At which point the person next to the red circle goes and stands in it - attracting the adds that spawned. When the small adds reach the circle, the rDPS stop attacking the boss and AoE down the small adds.
After this, everything continues as normal. Tank swaps happen each time a new Jealous Male spawns.
** -- We split our rDPS and mDPS according to target. With mDPS focusing on the 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th Jealous Males. rDPS killing the 1st Jealous Male only and all small adds when they reach the red circles. If you have lots of mDPS or lots of rDPS, then my description is only a guide, not an absolute.
Just because we do it that way doesn't mean you have to. If you want mDPS to attack the small adds in the circle - fine. If you want rDPS to attack the Jealous - also fine.
We do it this way so that people are switching targets less and mDPS aren't spending more time than necessary running around. Reducing time lost target switching and moving are both ways to increase overall DPS.
As someone else points out, this only helps with this boss and only if you're consistently struggling with the enrage. There will come a point where you no longer need to do the boss this way and you can go back to doing "normal" tank swaps whenever a Jealous Male spawns. Not least, because this way is clunky and you'll need a higher level of DPS to kill the other bosses in TFB HM anyway.
I'm intrigued by the 1800+ DPS mentioned. That's not unreasonable given the amount of AoE involved. However, just in case it's linked to why you are hitting the enrage timer... I'll point out that you should only ever be getting the small adds to AoE down while a red circle is present. If you are getting adds to AoE more often, then it's likely you are doing tank swaps (or the tank is losing aggro/dying) too often.
Hope that clears up my advice and why it might work for you.
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Thanks again for all the help. I'll will pass it by the team and maybe have a few goes a ***.
Is it possible to do the normal strat, but than go 2mdps on male and 2rdps on adds for all switches?
would that be better?
- Tank-A pull the Boss.
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well then you are hitting the enrage. i would suggest putting everyone in MoX just to see what's going on and then having your top dps go in red circle after all other dps and top dps stays on boss no matter what. let your other 3 handle adds and jealous males. other than that are they keeping their debuffs up on the boss at all times? not using the right rotations is probably the only other thing it could be unless they just haven't optimized their gear yet. i remember with my sentinel i was trying to get him in BH as quick as possible and ended up with some pretty crappy stats until i started min/maxing. does your dps have to much acc / crit not enough power / surge? just something else to check.
Thanks again for all the good suggestions.
We will try 3 and 1 split the whole time and see how it goes.
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also make sure that you're hitting the enrage and not the 15% burn phase. you said you get him to about 13% and then he enrages so it might just be the burn phase. the first couple times we killed him we started falling quick during this phase and barely downed the boss. (the first time we actually wiped on the adds that spawn but managed to kill the boss) when he hit's 15% make sure you're dpsing the boss and not the adds. have your off tank (the one that happens to not be on the boss) taunt the adds and pop his def cooldowns to give your dps more time and make sure your healers still have force/energy at the end of the fight for this. so in short use a timer and if it's not the hard enrage just make sure you're handling the burn phase properly.
thanks for your reply.
At 15% we are still working through the last bit of the third male and adds. The WH turns red and hard enrages.
This is confirmed by the buff in red "enrage 200% damage increase.
Again the loss is the dps somehow, but where? It's not gear.
Fine tuning and advanced mechanics me thinks.
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Here is another question.
I have seen many different strats regarding dps splits.
Is the best one still all 4 on adds and than all 4 on male?
We also tried 4 on adds, 2 on boss 2 on male which gave us our best results at 12% ENRAGE.
I have seen others go 2 dps on boss at all times, 2 on adds than those 2 on boss, tank on male by himself.
What are others doing for this? Is everyone running 4 dps on adds than 4 on male than boss for all males?
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If you are hitting an enrage, no matter which fight, it is always a DPS issue. Dummy DPS really doesn't help you here. A full compliment of logs will enable us to help you. But there are a few things I can add that help trouble shoot these issues:
1. Since you are hitting the enrage (5:45) this means you will have time to use Inspiration twice. Are you? In addition, are all 4 DPS in the same group so they all benefit from it?
2. Are all DPS using their adrenals on cooldowns (you'll be able to use them twice)?
3. Are all DPS using their click power relic and personal cooldowns on cooldown?
4. Is the non-active tank (once male is down, back on boss) focusing on DPS (stim switch if biochem, stance change)?
5. Are the DPS only giving the tank a couple second lead? I know some groups give upwards of 5-7 seconds, and that's too much of a DPS loss.
Once again, logs will help more than anything else. But it defiinately sounds like you have a significant DPS issue.
Thank you for your reply.
Indeed the issue is DPS output, but I want to know how.
The answer is yes to all except the stim/stance switch which I will employ since both tanks are biochem.
I wish I knew where our loss was, it would be so easy to figure out.
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you sure they put 1600-1800 within the fight and not the operation training thingy in fleet? Some players dash out good damage to those but due to some mechanical mistakes they make in the actual boss fight they dish out sometimes as worse as half that.
Interesting you say such a thing. lol
2 of the dps have checked it on mox and the other 2 are going by the fleet dummy.
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While that might help them squeak by this fight, they'll still be hitting a wall on everything after (if its an enrage/not enough DPS issue). So unless you want to just be doing this one fight every week for a single piece of Hazmat gear, I would agree with others in their suggestion that your DPS either look into how to play their class better, or be replaced by better DPS.
That is, if its an enrage issue, which it might not be.
Thanks for your reply.
I definitely agree with improvement. I think for all players this fight brings you to the need for a new standard of playing. We will keep on working at it.
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Let me see if I can throw in some actual help, rather than suggesting that you just replace/monitor your DPS players.....
There is a way you can push the boss progression with lower than average DPS.
Pull the boss and track the debuff stacks on the tank. As soon as the tank has 2 stacks, have your other tank taunt the boss and carry on, mostly as normal. Then get your ranged DPS to kill the two small adds that spawn.
Then, when the 1st Jealous Male spawns... ignore the red circle and have the ranged DPS kill the Jealous. Melee DPS can stay on the boss. DON'T do a tank swap.
You'll need to be ready for the 2nd red circle. The timing is tight for it. You'll need to have someone ready to step in the red circle furthest away from the boss at that point, if that one is picked. There will be more small adds than normal, but AoE'ing them down once they reach the red circle should be easy enough as long as you've got 2+ ranged DPS.
After that, the fight continues as normal.
You'll be swapping time DPSing the adds for time DPSing the boss. That should give you the boost you need to kill the boss on schedule.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply.
To clarify, are you suggesting the 2 swap stat only until the second male and than doing the 4 dps on adds and 4 dps on male strat?
Or doing the 2 on boss whole time 2 on 2 adds and male whole time?
I also think that a new guild or replacing the dps is silly. If others can do it, so can we.
I don't want to take the impatient route. It can be done. The whole run can be done one shot with BH unaugmented.
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As far as I'm aware, when I run a timer for my guild the enrage timer is 5:45.
What you can try doing (if you only use dps for the red pools) is having a Merc or Operative healer standing in the first red pool, this gives the dps a bit more time to attack the boss. Using this method we have the Writhing Horror dead before the 4th red pool.
Although, if you're struggling on the enrage timer for this fight, which is fairly generous, and are all 61 / 63 geared, your dps just aren't putting out enough damage. Ask them to enable combat logs on the fight and to upload them to http://www.torparse.com, if they're below 1400 you will have problems.
If your dps are 61/63 geared and below 1400 on that fight, then it's their rotation.
Thanks for the reply.
all of the dps checked and are putting out 1600-1800. thats why i dont get it.
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Hi there,
With BH and no one being killed along the way you shouldn't be hitting the enrager .
I know this sound harsh but sounds like one of your DPSer maybe missing something., what's classes are your DPSers? As with A Marauder putting up blood thirst and debuff from BH, etc. you SHOULD be fine.
1 merauder, one jugg.
1 sorc one bounty hunter
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My guild and I are running HMTFB regularly and getting stuck at 13% with the writhing horror.
We are running the strat from dulfy.net and doing everything to a T.
We all have full BH augmented and even a few 27's here and there.
Did anyone else while learning the fight seem to hit the enrage here too?
What did you all do to pick it up just that little bit ?
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Thanks all so much for your help and input.
So what i am hearing a lot of is give up some HP and shield stats for some more defense.
Would it be better to swap mods around for that or swap augments around?
Both, or straight one way?
If i am thinking through this right, if i swap some augments around i will be able to keep my 26k health and
switch my augments around to get my near 30% defense chance.
i could easily shift things around and instead of 22,52,52 go 30, 45, 45.
Seems to be the consensus from all y'all.
Our guild has TFB and EC SM on farm status and is currently working on locking them down on HM.
Many of us have easily worked through most of both as pugs with other guilds but are still working on it in our core group. As you all know, they are quite challenging when you are trying to get the whole group to get all the small nuances down. The mechanics are going well but the small things that make it smooth seem to be the hard part. Very unforgiving runs.
Side question, when the 5 level cap increase comes do u think that stat increase that comes with it have an impact significant enough to noticeably make those tough runs easier?
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Look for any advice on end game gearing for my jugg tank.
Just want to see if there are any ideas out there that would help me as a tank gear wise.
BH head, boots augmented.
Campaign chest, gloves, pants and bracers augmented.
Rakata shield augmented
MH is mostly 58, stil working on mats for 63's
Dread guard imperiling serenity/ shield amplification augmented
BH MK-1 and MK2 implants augmented
BH MK1 ear piece
(all stats are fully buffed)
Health 26259
Armor 7970
Damage reduction 48.46%
Damage chance 22.43%
Shield chance 52.76%
Shield absorption 49.95%
Strength 1430
Endurance 2350
I did a small amount of mod swapping so that all accuracy mods were replaced with endurance ones.
Ideas?
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We are consistently hitting the enrage timer on HM .
The WHOLE group has full BH augmented.
Melee dps are backing out during Toth's frenzy, tanks are tank swapping, no one is getting hit in the red circle phase, cleanse is going off immediately, bosses are far enough apart, fearful debuff is under control.
WHAT IS GOING ON!>!?!?!?!?!
My reason is if we constantly get to 10% on both and hit the enrage every time we are missing some dps.
ideas?
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I am having the worst time at this.
I have only got to Lorrick once in the dozen times I have ran it.
The droid is the big problem for me. Just yesterday I ran it with A healer who had 2 BH, one rakata and all columni.
both ranged dps full rakata and I have full columni with 2 BH as a tank.
I interrupted every single incinerate with almost no stacks, we moved around the room well with hardly no one standing in the blue crap.
Still 20+ wipes over and over near 35%-5%.
I personally saw the group move well outta the blue crap.
And, always near 20% he is dropping arcs on me with full aggro.
what is the deal? why is this so hard?
it was made to be ran with a full group with less than full columni let alone rakata.
How are people constantly one shoting LH-5?
HELP PLEASE!>!?!?!?!?!?
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Hello trusted and experienced friends.
I just recently hit lv 50 and need some help.
I am loving the HM flashpoints and operations but my party members are not.
I currently have the best gear comms and creds can buy from the GTN and corellia vendors.
When I run the HM FP's, the healers hate my guts. I can't tank to well with the gear I have but I need to run them to get the gear I need. I have not tried any OP's yet since this was tough enough. I got through a few HM FP's but only because the DPS was really holding it down.
What can I do to make this transition easier for myself and the unfortunate others who randomly get partied up with my on the dailies?
Thanks
Coming back to SWTOR after 7 years.
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