Well, we once thought Episode VII would never happen, so who knows? If Bioware does make KOTOR III, that would make it the first official Old Republic era story in the new Canon. It's kind of similar to how Heir to the Jedi, the third book in the Empire and Rebellion trilogy, is part of the Canon while the first two books, Razor's Edge and Honor Among Thieves are still considered Legends. Lucasfilm could use KOTOR III to establish the Canon version of the Old Republic era and override anything from the first two KOTOR games and SWTOR that wouldn't fit.

THIS so much. I think it says alot about the state of the game and the players when REVAN, once the god king of Old Republic fans, is met with a collective groan from a good chunk of the fanbase. They should've brought back Malgus instead.

They wouldn't necessarily need KOTOR to tell their story. Hypothetically, they could merge the Great Galactic War and the New Sith War into some hybrid war; e.g. Darth Ruin (or whatever they might rename him) becomes the first Sith Lord and founds the order, declares war and wins, the Sith rule for perhaps a century or so before the Republic remnants return and win, Bane survives, and the thousand year peace happens. Just based on what little we've been explicitly told, there's only been one confirmed Sith war in the canon. Unless they reveal down the line that there have been previous Sith conflicts, they would have to hybridize the various wars from the Legends in order to keep it coherent.

Well it's part of the Legends Canon. So I suppose from that certain point of view it's still canon.

I remember seeing selkath on the show, but I can't recall if Manaan was ever mentioned. Would you remember which episode that was? EDIT: Never mind. The starwars.com databank entry for Mantu lists Manaan as his homeworld. Also looking back at my timeline, a major plot hole that still needs to be addressed is how Yoda knew about the Rule of Two, since they've de-canonized Kibh Jeen.

I was under the impression that SIdious was referencing Plagueis in Episode III, not Vitiate. But then the question I've always had about that little bit of Sith lore is that if, according to Sidious, he kills Plagueis once he taught him all he knew, why would he talk about "finding the secret" if he's supposed to HAVE the secret? As far as SWTOR canon goes, I think if Lucasfilm decides in the future, they could reasonably include the SWTOR story in the canon, but they'd have to move it up several thousand years so that it only takes place a little over a millennium before the films instead of 3000+ years. But until they explicitly do that, it would be best to view the game as non-canon by default, especially given the branching narratives of this game. Plus, it's made pretty clear in Episode III that the Sith were the undisputed rulers of the galaxy in the Old Republic times, whereas in SWTOR it's more like they're sharing the galaxy than actually ruling it themselves. As far as Bane goes, what needs to be remembered is that even in the old EU/Legends, the story of Bane and the Rule of Two predates the development of KOTOR, meaning that in the original telling, the Rule of Two was completely Bane's idea. Given what minimal knowledge we have about Bane's time, the safest guess we can make is that Canon Bane thought up the Rule of Two all by himself.

So we already know this, but as a result of Lucasfilm's canon reboot, the Old Republic era is now non-canon as well (for now, at least). I'm still kinda miffed over it, but what's done is done. I'm not going to pull an Anakin hissy fit and refuse to let go. So instead, I tried theorizing what the canonical Old Republic era would look like, based on the current canon. So I looked back on the current canon material, the films and TCW, and gathered as many clues and tidbits pertaining to the Old Republic era as I could find, in order to uncover the "true history" of the galaxy. So to start off, here's what I found so far: KNOWN FACTS The Republic as we know it in the prequels has only existed for a thousand years--Palpatine's quote in the beginning of Episode II Prior to the Clone Wars, the galaxy had never had a full-scale war since the formation of this Republic--Sio Bibble in Episode II The Sith also hadn't been seen in a thousand years as well, meaning they vanished the same time the Republic in the prequels was formed--Ki-Adi Mundi in Episode I The Sith escaped destruction through Darth Bane's Rule of Two--Yoda's vision in the Clone Wars episode "Sacrifice" At some point in the galaxy's history, the Sith were the dominant ruling force--Mace Windu's reference to the "oppression of the Sith will never return" and Sidious's declaration of "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy!" in Episode III The Mandalorians have had a bloody history with the Republic and the Jedi--various dialogues in the Mandalorian arc in Clone Wars season 2 There WAS an Old Republic that existed before the Republic we see in the prequels, but it fell generation ago--Pre Vizsla when he introduced the darksaber in the Clone Wars episode "The Mandalore Plot" Prior to the Clone Wars, Coruscant had never been attacked in over a thousand years--Lott Dod's quote in the Clone Wars episode "Heroes on Both Sides" Those are all the relevant info I've been able to find so far. Using these tidbits, I pieced together a possible Canonical history of the galaxy, using ONLY those pieces of information, and avoiding any "possible" or "hypothetical" or "implied" scenarios unless explicitly supported by the information above, no matter how plausible they may be, so as to paint as absolute a picture as possible: (POTENTIAL) TIMELINE At least a thousand years prior to the films, the Sith Order allied ith the Mandalorians and declared war on the Old Republic. The war ended when the Sith succeeded in conquering Coruscant (during which time Vizsla's ancestor raided the Jedi Temple and took the darksaber), which led to the destruction of the Republic and the ascendance of the Sith as the ruling force in the galaxy. But inevitably, infighting among the Sith weakened their empire from within. Around that same time, the remnants of the Old Republic and Jedi Order rallied from their defeat and declared a second war against the Sith, which they won this time. The Sith were seemingly destroyed by the war's end, by a combination of the Jedi's offense, as well as the Sith killing each other. But one Sith Lord, Darth Bane, survived and went into hiding and instituted the Rule of Two. Following their defeat, the Mandalorians were banished back to their homeworlds of Mandalore and Concordia. In the aftermath of the war, a new Galactic Republic was established from the remnants of the original, to rebuild the galaxy and to rule it with freedom and justice, with the Jedi serving as its guardians. THIS is the Republic we see in the prequels. Over the next thousand years, the galaxy lives in peace and prosperity under the Republic, while the Sith secretly plan their vengeance over the next millennium. By the end of this thousand-year period of peace, the events of the prequel trilogy begin. That's all I have so far. Assuming this is accurate, you can see that this potential backstory looks like a hybridization of the Great War from SWTOR, and the New Sith Wars from the Bane trilogy. If there're any other references, feel free to chime in. If there's anything I missed or got wrong, toss in your revisions to try and work them in. The hard truth is, unless/until Lucasfilm chooses to return to the pre-film era, this is about the best we can do for the Old Republic era.

Actually they said it's 30 years. So around the same time in the Legends timeline, the Yuuzhan Vong War is coming to a close.

Well to be fair, neither did/does "Attack of the Clones". I still think that sounds more like one of those chessy 1960s B-movies. And besides, aren't most of our deep-seated fears ancient--e.g. death, suffering, disease, loss? In reality very few, if any of our fears are actually "new"; what we may see as new fears are more often than not just contemporary incarnations of long-existing fears.

The biggest problem about Plagueis being alive is that according to the Rule of Two, it essentially means that everything that's happened--the Clone Wars, the JedI Purge, the rise of the Galactic Empire--was the work of a Sith apprentice and his three dark Jedi minions

Realistically speaking, does it actually matter much? The Old Republic era is far enough away from the films and the rest of the official canon that you can pretty much take it or leave it as you wish. At this point, unless either Lucasfilm outright announces that it's still canon, or they create a whole new "ancient history" that overwrites the current Old Republic continuity, I'd say it's up to you. It really doesn't make much of a difference pragmatically speaking.

So as of the writing of this post, the entirety of the official Clone Wars canon now consists of Episode II, the Clone Wars movie and TV show, and Episode III. But Lucasfilm has said that while the rest of the EU is currently in "Legends" status that they will be borrowing and re-canonizing elements of the old EU according to if it fits or not. Given just how convoluted the Clone Wars timeline was prior to the canon overhaul--we had the films, the show, the cartoon mini-series, comics, novels, junior novels, short stories, games, all devoted to a war that lasted for three years, and it's not like they were using the 24-style time progression in order to make the most of what little time they had in the continuity--this is excellent news for fans of that era, since it greatly cleans up that period in the timeline. What are the chances that sometime down the line, Lucasfilm and their Story Group will release an official definitive Clone War timeline, chronicling every event and battle, and listing all the stories that count toward the official timeline? As a fan of the Clone Wars all the way back from the three-year time gap between Episodes II and III, who used to follow all the stories as they came out, as if I was watching/reading the War play out in real time, I hope they do this, since I've been heavily discouraged by that era ever since 2008 when they decided to revisit the conflict by adding a wealth of new material to an already crowded time period. It would be nice to be able to track the linear progression of the War as a whole, from the Battle of Geonosis to the Mustafar Massacre.

Honestly, I'm still not hooked, but I'll give it a try. But I will say that I am glad and thankful a show like this is being made right now. I have two nieces, age 6 and 7, they're still a tad too young to be able to watch the original Star Wars and truly appreciate everything about the series and the story and mythos (I know I didn't get everything when I first watched it), but a show like this is a perfect entry point for their generation into the Galaxy Far, Far Away. They were still too young when Clone Wars came out, and they're not into binge-watching, since they only really watch shows that are actually on TV so Netflix is out of the question for them :/ My hope is that even if I personally end up not liking the show, that at least THEY will, and that it'll attract and enkindle in them an interest or curiosity for the actual movies down the line. *fingers crossed*

I know they've more or less scrapped it from the canon, but have we already forgotten the old EU? This movie takes place in 34 ABY, 30 years after ROTJ; in 34 ABY in the old EU the Empire was no longer in control and was a Remnant of its former self, only ruling a fraction of the territory they once had. We were all willing to accept this in the old EU, why are people suddenly having a hard time believing that the Empire could be defeated by the time of Episode VII?

Nope, should be same price. It's funny actually, one SW facebook page showed pics of the new covers with the "Legends" label, and of course there were the obvious "How dare Disney expect us to buy books after declaring them non-canon!" comments. One moron in particular made a comment of "They should be free since they're not canon anymore!" to which I replied "So when I played KOTOR in 2005 and got the non-canon darkside ending, should I have gotten a refund from Gamestop?"

So since TCW is considered part of the OTC, does that mean all the TCW-related games are as well. or have all existing games been relegated to "Legends" status?

Palpatine is still the strongest Sith. Especially so now, since most of the Sith in the canon who would've rivaled him have been relegated to "Legends" status. As of now, the only confirmed Sith in this new continuity are Bane, Sidious, Maul, Tyranus and Vader. I think Palpatine's title is safe for now. But yeah, I am glad they're starting over. Hopefully now Lucasfilm will be able to make a better canon, take all the good stuff from the Legends collection and re-canonize it and leave all the stupid sh*t out.

An interesting idea came to me: What if by "Legends", these old EU works are actually works of fiction that exist within the SW universe? Basically they're the GFFA's equivalent of historical fiction, providing fictional stories starring "real life characters", kind of like Dracula or Shakespeare in Love. J.K. Rowling has done similar work on Harry Potter; her expanded universe is almost completely comprised of in-universe stories and books, like Beedle the Bard, and publications of Hogwarts school books, as well as the Pottermore site which doesn't add any future narrative content, but expands on the series' lore. It would be a pretty cool if the writers of the new books included references to the old books as easter eggs or homages; e.g. Han and Leia reading The Courtship of Princess Leia and laughing at how different the book is from the true story of how they got married, Luke reading about the Yuuzhan Vong and being thankful that such creatures do not truly exist in the universe, or Chewbacca, as well as Jacen and Anakin (if they're in the new canon) being angry at writers killing them off.

This is a cynical way of looking at it. Just because alot of events and ideas from the old EU aren't currently part of the new One True Canon doesn't mean that it won't eventually become part of it. I think another bonus of this canon overhaul is that if Lucasfilm decides to eventually revisit stuff from the Legends collection and elevate it to Canon, they now have a chance to clean things up and make them more coherent. Because let's face it, "coherent" is one word that no objective, unbiased observer of the EU will ever call it. For example, look at all the Clone Wars material. To be quite frank, with all the comics, novels, games, and the cartoon miniseries, the Clone Wars EU is one giant clusterf**k. Relegating the whole thing into Legend status for now gives Lucasfilm the opportunity to look over all the material and organize it into a coherent narrative using the prequel films and the Clone Wars show as the anchors, so that they can confidently say "Okay, we've managed to sift through all this jumble, and we now have a definitive timeline of the entire Clone War era, from the Battle of Geonosis to the Mustafar Massacre. Enjoy!" They can also do the same for the Galactic Civil War, which is even worse of a clusterf**k than the Clone Wars, since it has even more material to deal with, from novels, to games, to the abundance of comics in that era starting from the original Marvel series, not to mention all the stuff from the West End RPG. I imagine that'll take them a good while to sift through all that chaos.

Yeah, I can't imagine a show taking place during the "Dark Times" (as Obi-Wan calls it) being dark...

"The future Star Wars novels from Disney Publishing Worldwide and Del Rey Books will now be part of the official Star Wars canon as reflected on upcoming TV and movie screens." "We're extremely proud of the hundreds of amazing Star Wars books we've published at Del Rey," said Scott Shannon, SVP, publisher, Del Rey and Digital Content, "And now we're excited to finally be able to call our upcoming novels true canon -- a single, cohesive Star Wars storyline -- all while keeping the amazing backlist of Star Wars Legends content in print." -- Quoted from this article on starwars.com Therein lies the fundamental difference between the canon novels and the Legends: Legends are optional, but disregarding the four upcoming novels is as much mistaken as disregarding the upcoming trilogy.

Yeah, because "The Avengers" was such a kiddy immature movie. You want to talk about kiddy shows, why don't you watch the old "Ewoks" show that was produced by Lucasfilm back in the 1980s? And while Lucasfilm was busy creating that abomination of a show, what was Disney creating? They created Tron[/i, the first Disney-created science fiction film, and a few years later ]released The Black Cauldron: the first Disney film to be given a PG rating, and often considered one of Disney's darkest movies ever made. In fact, it was disliked upon release because it wasn't the bright, happy child fantasy that they were known for. Oh yeah, and The tissues are over there if you need them.

Be careful how you state this. Remember, the EU has never been considered "mandatory" canon; it was up to the individual to accept it or not. If one fan chose to view only the films as canon, he/she wasn't wrong. If another fan chose to view the films and EU as canon, he/she wasn't wrong either. The only canon fans were required to respect were the films and TV show. The core of this hasn't changed. The only difference is that for the first time ever, we now have novels that are considered mandatory canon along with the films, which fans are required to accept, while the old EU material, now called "Legends" retain their exact same level of canonicity; if you want to accept them, that's cool. If you don't accept them, that's cool too.

In the old system, the canon was basically this: MUST BE accepted as canon: The Phantom Menace Attack of the Clones Clone Wars Revenge of the Sith A New Hope The Empire Strikes Back Return of the Jedi CAN BE accepted as canon: Everything else, provided they don't conflict with the above Now, under the new system, this is the new canon: MUST BE ACCEPTED AS CANON: The Phantom Menace Attack of the Clones Clone Wars Revenge of the Sith Lords of the Sith A New Dawn Rebels Tarkin A New Hope Heir to the Jedi The Empire Strikes Back Return of the Jedi {any future non-Legend EU material} CAN BE accepted as canon: Everything else, provided they don't conflict with the above.

Perhaps because of how far in the past this era is, they might not feel that it matters much whether or not the Old Republic era is truly Canon or a Legend. It could be a simple case of "It was so long ago that there is no longer any surviving substantial evidence that these events actually did or did not happen." I mean hell, millennia after Homer and we're still debating over whether the Trojan War really happened. And all these events from this era are events happening 4000-5000 years before the events of Episode IV, which itself already takes place "A long time ago". It's not that incredible that all reliable records from that time period would be lost.