Lol, I don't have to have my friends on to form premades. 1/4 people can fill those roles if you just asked, or made the effort to have that class yourself. The more you cry and think that organization and class synergy is a negative, the more poorly you display your knowledge of the game. Try communicating and socializing, and asking people to run a spec for a group you make from pugs. 9/10 they do so, and out of 2 matches of pug play I have up to 16 people at my disposal of invites, pms, and running options. Players like yourself refuse to do this, and make up every excuse under the sun and still get stomped by people who just adapt. Pretty sad brah.

Awkward moment? Your DD's have no balls. 4 dd's on one healer is way too much for that healer. 4 DD's on 2 healers, split 2 on 2 and you still give those healers hell. Enough for their team to pull off foolish moves and become weak.. 4 dd's going after 1-2 healers, and a tank, DD, and CC on their team punishes you all 4 of you for it? That is skill, coordination, and proper gameplay. All of which your 4 man dd team would lack if they were crushed by that action. Not to mention the poor lineup of choice when you play an RPG. Should know better. Especially if you're in a pug, you should know right away a more balanced team has a more dynamic advantage.

Yes, you should focus on one tree, until you are more experienced and understand what you sacrifice when you go for hybrid builds. Look up your class tree, and pick one that is suited to you. As for you not winning your matches, what the others stated is valuable information. You need to understand the maps you play on, the key objectives on these maps and understand how your class is effected. You need to understand your class in general, that you are a DD. Not a tank, not a stealth DD, not a support class. Your job is to pressure targets, call targets, or to spike out targets. Everything you do is associated with eliminating players from the field, and taking ground. Also, you need to state if you're a solo player, or a group player. Your class is dependent on tanks, and healers. You are a vulnerable DD, and you are the most common form of DD. You require melee to deal your damage, and that requires you to be close to targets. Because of this you are more expendable than ranged targets because it takes less effort to kill you. So if you are a solo player, you need to know how to manipulate distance between targets, and when to strike when targets are vulnerable. You do not pressure healers on the get go, if they had a tank that's paired with the healer, you're dead. If you engage first, and DD's target you, you're dead. See where I'm going with this? I suggest to everyone, to organize a group. Which just takes pming others after a warzone and asking if they join. Your best bet is to go for melee focused teams, Tank, DD, DD, or CC, Healer. You need a tank to shield you from focus fire when you over extend. You need your healer for when you move in formation and fall back. If you are not a caller, then you support the called targets of your other DD. I highly urge you to not give up, as that just breeds weak players. Spend the time to learn the classes, and learn how to work with other players to complete your goal.

That's good that you attempted to do what's suggested. As for the assumptions, I cannot know the full reasoning behind your situation. Yes you are right there are alot of people in your position. As I have said 9/10 people I ask to join a group when I form pugs into premades, they are not in a group and reply with yes. These people often lack knowlege or experience. From my point of view i'd rather all players learn from threads like this so that we don't have to see another discourage premade thread. It may be harsh for new players to struggle and lose continually to premades to some, but alot can be learned from those teams and can be replicated, and eventually conquered with time and patience. As for you, I hope you don't give up on PvP for SWTOR, and continue trying. There's alot of factors to the game's pvp and it's very enjoyable when you experience everything with an open mind and build from there. I would rather see our communities build premades within their own circles, and see them more often to add to the competitive nature of PvP it betters the game and the players mentality as a whole. New players just have to learn to experience the strife we all went through and evolve from it so that we can have a better game. That is why I so rigidly defend premades, because it's something all players can acheive and can build and when they do it's completely worth while. I agree with his post. These teams work for their skill and experience, and they too had to go through failure and learn from it. It's not a problem to me as well, it's been this way across all mmorpgs for a long time. All the tools are available to every player, all they need to do is evaluate and understand how to use them.

You put limitations on yourself, that is why you are here in this thread. It is not the only way to get it done, there are others, but it is the most fruitful way which is clear by how you admit to leave and not enter the PvP queue because of one factor group. You did not answer my question upon whether you tried or not which is easy to presume you did not bother. As for what people generally do. Well, that's the point isn't it? What people generally do is not working, and what the factors do is working, thus the purpose of this thread. It's entirely convenient to ask people to join but clearly outside your comfort zone and for those to oppose as well. I can tell the people who come here and troll saying "get good bro" are those who already know how this works and they're way beyond this thread. But I don't feel like doing the same. People come and go alot in pug premades that I make daily, that's ok, you have to learn that some people are not meant for it and become frustrated much like yourself because they do not understand how team play works. You continue to pick up people along the way. There's 7 other people in each game you play for 10-15 minutes, if you did not suffer from tunnel vision in midst of PvP you can observe how they play. They may suit your standards, and you can then request for them to join. It's a simple yes or no answer, and most people I've come across easily say yes. Does that mean we utterly own in PvP? No, not even close. But we work together to complete the task and fight against the odds. It's better to have a group of people that suffer from the same pain you do, than to wallow in your own failures. As for your last quesiton, for a premade team? It depends on which kind, because there is no one type of group. I have played with friends who I have known for years and they know my mindset and actions in the game, and it factors into how we play considerably. There's teams that just form and may not be skilled or fluid in team effort as well. So when opposing another pug group with a strong friend based team? No, most of them lack the skill and knowledge to compete and lose in PvP not objectives. Usually these players will not return to pvp us, and this goes for premades too. When facing another premade not all of them return with the wrath of Crom to crush us. They lose hope and fade, going to do objectives. Which is why I suggest you play in a premade, and try to form a group, because you will then understand what it means to work in a team and to build one, and to lose people as you go while still remaining. If you cannot speak to people on your team in a pug match, then of course you're immediately at a disadvantage. But honstly all it takes is a single pm from you or them to get things going. It's just a building process, much like that of obtaining knowledge of mechanics, and timing skills. It's one of the many aspects of PvP.

New players don't have to leave, but if they're frustrated to the point where they cannot play because few people are more organized then they are, then i'm sorry they are not going to thrive. As for pvp length and your disability. You can clearly type a message to me, in a longer fashion than which requires to greet someone and ask if they will join you. Do you have to stop what you're doing for this? No, you can continue to queue solo but build players into a group as you play. That is how I have done it. It's the refusal of doing this because you feel it's a chore, or it's just change. But you feel the need to express how it is unfair for you, because you're not willing to do this. If you cannot adapt, and cannot realize the situation you put yourself in. Continually applying the same methods but expecting different results. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." PvP is made for players who learn to adapt and thrive at doing so, that is the purpose of playing against another able mind. There's no limit to what they can accomplish, if you cannot understand that, then again same with new players who refuse this, you will not thrive. Even if the game is catered for that type of mentality of making things easier and more convenient the same players who defeat you in a team will defeat you in other aspects of the game because they adapt, and you do not.

So were you solo this time? Or did you actually try to group up? I stand by what I said and I agree that solo players have to do more for themself, but at the same time they do not do what team mates do as in constant sacrifice of personal gain so that the entire team benefits. Premades have an easy time against pugs, true, but when premades are pitted against each other which comes from people making an effort to group up you will see another field of play that solo players do not touch. Granted ranked warzones are for 8v8 premades, likely guild vs guild. Regular warzones only fits 4, which is yes a premade team, but it consists of only half and they will likely benefit that team in a large way. I do not agree with your statement about solo players changing their mindset. If they did they'd realize being singular is not an advantage compared to team play, because you return here in failure as you put it, where you cannot even play. You were defeated by a group of players, yet you didn't try the advice suggested did you? So unless you try it, and see for yourself you cannot share my view. That is being stubborn. Now i've done what you do, and I still do it, but I know when I solo I am more limited than with my premade teams. Non the less as I stated I still create new premades to fill in that gap, because it's a fact that players do better as a group than just 4 randoms pitted on the same team. I did not simply state make your own premade, I stated to work with the players you play with daily, and you blatantly ignore. Why can't you pm them and say "hello, would you like to join my group? We better our chances working together." Do you go into the map soloing all the time? Or do you stick with your party members and try to take objectives? I assume you stay with your party and work as a group. But alas, you are defeated by coordinated players because they know what backline, frontline concepts are. They know how to push and pull your allies to expose weaknesses so that you fail. They can do this because they prepared, and that's good, it shouldn't be discouraged. You dull the gameplay entirely by limiting those people. How can you state it's more positive to be by yourself in an online multiplayer game, than to work with new people, learn about them, and learn how to work as a team? As for your argument for new players, they learn like everyone else learned. They learn to lose, and win. They have to understand why they lost, and why they gained victory. But, I understand that they likely feel upset over people who are in groups defeated them, but if they realize they can do it too and they can be better than that group. Then they will stay and they will thrive. If they do not, and feel they are helpless and cannot continue then they will die off and leave the game. It's survival of the fittest. This is how you breed good PvP communities, and how you strengthen the players minds and commucation skills. To take that away would not benefit the game, but appeal to the masses and they will learn nothing.

I agree with this post. The problem isn't a learn to play issue entirely. It's a communication issue. The unwillingness to group up with others is the bane of PvP. The more people understand that they should queue in as a group, or queue in solo and build a group as they play the better their game experience will be. If you cannot do these things, then you have little ground to stand on in any argument.

And you continually fighting premades isn't a sign that you should start your own? That you should pm those other people on your team who are suffering the same thing. You have a common cause to work together, and fight them. It doesn't really matter if you lose at that point, trying and evolving is better than admitting defeat and "well I can't do it." There's no excuse for that, especially to come on the forums and stand by reason. Do you think all of us people who premade started with premades? We went through the same thing, where experienced players who were ahead of the game had no quarter for us. We got farmed, and we learned. We learned that if we were to win, then we had to make an effort and communicate and work with our allies, especially those who are soloing constantly and no getting the idea of team work and cooperation. And I can tell you from experience it works. I have 2 regular premade teams all of them are close friends, and I built that. I get invites to other people's premades because i've built contacts through pvp. Only time I find myself without a group of friends is in the early morning hours, 4-6 Am PST. Sometimes that's all the time I have, but when that happens I don't pout and say "Oh boohoo me". Nah I find others who are alone, and I will pm them instantly after a match and ask if they're in a group. 9/10 they are NOT. That is a clear sign to me that people are not comprehending the requirement of team play, and organization. And when it comes to PvE that aura of social displacement is totally gone. So easily do I see people willing to roll different specs to fit a role because the task requires one. They know a 4 man team needs a tank and a healer, they know they need CC specs and DD. But in PvP it's totally different you have players who just queue in thinking they're going to factor as some DD, and work entirely solo, when that class is just as dependant on the others as is a tank or healer. It is illogical entirely. Even if you have the seperate queues that others have mentioned it's not going to help either. You'll have solo players who will play solo because they do not change their playstyle or mindset. Then when they are introduced to premade PvP. Guess what? Do you think they're going to be prepared against those teams with experience in team work and synergy? Maybe. But not close enough to make a difference vs 4 other people. You will then have a huge gap of players who are solo, and players who are not afraid to compete and have what it takes to socialize and work with others finding a common ground to build off.

I think it's funny that this type of thread is still here, and people still don't get that the queue's havn't been changed for a reason. I'm not biased here, I understand what it's like to fight pug vs premade. I run my own premades when ever I can, but I also queue solo because like others have stated, you're friends aren't always on. That's understandable. But to expect CHANGE to happen just for you, the one guy who isn't doing much himself to change his playstyle is selfish. I don't believe premades should be punished for organizing and using tactics to win their games, it's PVP that's the highest competitive level of difficulty in the game. Always has been, and will be. It's ok if you come into the game solo, but you should realize that the premades have more power over you because they can control half the team. Does it always mean you'll lose? No, you will likley have premades on your side as well. You can still communicate to your allies, you can still make choices on your own. For those who think it's unfair for premades to fight pugs, then all I have to say is you have to realize organization is key. There's nothing stopping you from pming people on your allied side and asking "hey, are you in a pvp group?" Seriously if you're the player who doesn't do this, who doesn't try to organize, doesn't communicate with his allies to make teams for PVP. You're not helping, and you're not competing either. You're supposed to be defeated because you automatically go up against those who strive to be ahead of you, just by communicating with people in game. All the tools you need are right infront of you, and you refuse to use them because what? It's difficult? Is that not the point of PVP? If I am not in a premade, I will do this, and make random pugs into premades. They're no where near as good as premades you set in stone with friends, and have synergy with. But, it's better than everyone queuing in randomly and independently. Who ever leads, which is likely the person to invite those people, will have control, and can use that to make the actions done within the PVP game more fluid. The more people you work with, the better you become in PvP, the more organization skills, and tactical understand will come your way.