[Why do top parses have twice as many chain lightning uses as me?]

There is also a bug with which we can have twice thudering blast / turbulence, (look here)

 

The trick to having double chain lightning look here

[Are Sages the exact equivalent of Sorcs?]

there is a small gap in specialization madness / balance

 

balance : rippling force is not increase by drin thoughts, mental scarring, psychokinetic torrent, suppression force

 

madness : linghting burns is increase by force horrors, creeping death, fluminating current, Deathmark

 

there is a gap about 100 dps between balance and madness

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

 

Either you can't read or you do not understand the difference between luck and a bug. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume its the latter. Luck is when something happens that was not probable though still possible, e.g. you having a higher crit percentage than you do crit chance, or you getting more forked lightning and forked darkness procs than tooltip chance states. Every time one of those abilities is used, there is a chance that it will proc, and nowhere does it say that it can't occur at a greater rate. If you were insanely lucky, it could proc every time, but that is not probable. Do you think that someone getting a lucky amount of crits is a bug too?

 

On the other hand, a bug is something that is not supposed to happen. This is your Chain Lightning "double proc". Lightning Storm has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds w/ no alacrity, so another proc occurring within that window should not happen. If it does, it is a bug, regardless of whether Bioware addresses it.

 

 

Notice how I mention the luck of that parse. It was extremely good RNG, but that is all. Try to understand what you are talking about before you start speaking because otherwise you just look foolish. I'm sorry to tell you that you are completely wrong in your understanding of bugs, luck, and rng.

 

I can understand that get 1 2 3 proc more is normal

but here we talking about twice more proc so we cannot exclude this is a bug

 

you said the Chain Lightning "double proc" was randomly before you know how it works

it's the same here for the Forked Darkness' s proc rate

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

You are right. It wasn't normal. It was extremely lucky, which is why it was such a good parse. Most if not all top parses for a given spec are often very lucky either on crits, procs, or lack of misses for those dual wielding classes. I don't understand what you are getting at with this. I am not saying top parses are based entirely on luck, as you must have a deep understanding of the class, rotation, and dpsing in general in order to be that high, but what often sets apart the top parses from each other is sometimes if not mostly a matter of luck.

we agree that it comes from a bug

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

I can understand that get 1 2 3 proc more is normal

but twice more proc wasn't

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

there is no official message to say that you're a human, so you're not a human

kidding aside; a lack of official response does not mean that BW thinks it's okay; most exploits don't get official response until after it's fixed

 

the human have not been created by BW

but sage was created by BW

 

This bug exist for 3 years and they never have done nothing to prevent this bug, despite are massive use

while simple solution exist like having a immune against pushback, or have a cooldowns of 15s on the TKW

 

and finally if they really wanted that not using this bug they would simply remove the post in where is said how to have bug

thing that has not been done

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

there is no official message to say that this is a bug, so it's not a bug

 

If you are suggesting that I promote utilizing a bug to increase damage, then I am sorry to say that I refuse to do so. If you are suggesting that I promote hard casting chain lightning, then you can look at the previous discussion on this thread and notice that hard casting is a single target dps loss, so therefore it does not have a place in the rotation.

 

you refuse to use the dual proc chain lightning but you recommeded to use bug Bracers and you get 50% (instead of 25%) proc on Thundering Blast without using bug on your best parse

[TK wave instant cast bug]

I did a quick research on Google and found few results for this bug :

-http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=824204

-http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=820618

-https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/3nsgsy/instant_unbuffed_telekinetic_wave/

 

The oldest report dates from June 2015 and each time, no ones has a clue about this bug or some proof of its existence.

But now, we have some solid evidence of its existence but we don't know how it happens. It seems that the bug happened during this try.

 

you are wrong the bug is from 2.0 (06.01.2013)

 

since the time I am not sure we can speak of bug, but a trick to make a bit more like clipping blade dance, 3 skil during precision windows, respecialization while in cover with gunsilnger

 

as you can see it's just 2% more, while a sentinel is 11% more

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

Long story short, unless there are adds there is no reason to hardcast chain lightning, and even then once they have the AoE debuff, Force Storm spam until CL proc is probably about as good.

 

So now the only (legitimate) reason to use this rotation is for multitarget fights

 

can also be used hardcast chain lightning on burst phase can be anticipated

 

it is better to train with mwissie rotation because the majority of bosses got add

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

Sorry op, this will be my last post about this

saying it's not a glitch, and giving completely different examples doesn't stop it from being a glitch..

I suppose it depends on what you call a glitch; but since you have to actively try to alter the functioning of the ability, to something which is only supposed to be possible once every 10ish seconds

It's different from stopping a channel early because all ticks have happened, or using high alacrity or whatever for increased precision window ability use, don't know the gunslinger thing

I'd call it a glitch, couldn't care less what you wanna call it, as long as you don't keep saying I'm wrong, without valid arguments or a definition of "glitch"

 

And to the other guy: just use the rotation I mentioned above and it'll happen soon enough

Haven't spend time testing when it happens, but it always happened while taking dmg and with using hardcasted TKW

Getting dmg while casting turbulence seems about right (but didn't test/check it)

 

for you a glitch is something does not work correctly

if a cast is clipped you don't have to make all damage, it is not the case with clipping blade dance

if a skill make boost to other skill AFTER using it, it is not just supposed to boost skill before !

you know just a sentinel that says this is a glitch

so they are both glitch

as I said in my first post is not really able to judge whether si a glitch or not

especially since this in 3.0 there were lots of patch to fix it and there are always here

 

I would ask that people stop discussing the glitched lightning rotation here. Though I disagree with hard cast Chain Lightning rotation, it is still legitimate, but the instant Chain Lightning without a proc is not. People are free to discuss it elsewhere, but I ask that in this thread only legitimate methods and ideas are discussed.

Sorry for that

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

Trying it right now, does not work.

TB cast should be complited or interrupted?

juste make mwissie's rotation : TKWave (hardcast) > turbulence > TKWave (procced)

and get pushback during your turbulence

 

You're forgetting, that in my parse LB is consuming Death Marks, which boosts damage.

Again, In overall damage pool it's virtually nothing.

I would not even bother, seriously.

 

So you're okay there a problem that disadvantages sage

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

Sorry to ask again, just to make sure i've understood.

I sould put TW/CL on cooldown hard casting, than start casting TB/Tb and get pushback via incoming damage, right?

 

that's right

 

Unfortunatly, while i do have a sage toon, i dont play him at all, aside from crafting. So i may not know some sage specific things.

 

Are you sure that all passives, affecting DoTs, do not affect Rippling Force?

I was looking into this matter some time ago, i was under impression, that they all work.

Let's use mine parse and closest to mine sage parse (http://parsely.io/parser/view/105188/0 and http://parsely.io/parser/view/108237/3#damage-done).

On side note, this sage uses slightly more TT than i'm using FL(hence, he've got slightly more RF), but that's not that important for us. Also, i've feeling that my sorc have (had at that point at least) better gear, due to difference in damage for most abilities, and that we should keep in mind.

I've thought that the reason that LB was dealing slightly (130 on avg hit aint that much, with passives not working, the difference should be much more) more than his/her RF, is that LB actually consumes Death Marks.

Notice, that our DoTs deal pretty much same damage, while the difference should be in line with all others abilities.

 

Maybe i'm missing something, will be glad to be wrong.

Also, that all being said, if (if) you're right, the differnce in dps will be about 10. Which is not noticeble.

 

your exemple shows perfectly the problem

TT/FL and RF/LB have a common point, they don't have StandardHealthPercentMin/StandardHealthPercentMax

which means that the tick is not random

if i take the average tick of TT/FL : 1284/1282=1.001 it can be concluded they have the same stuff

now the average tick of RF/LB : 729/601=1.212 it can be concluded there is a differences of 21% that huge !!

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

just to make sure

we're talking about the fact that after a period of time, TKWave suddenly becomes an instant cast (even without the proc), since the ability clearly states it has a cast time; there is only 1 proc which states that the NEXT TKWave will be instant (while the proc lasts, using TKWave consumes the proc); and since it takes some time before this happens, it's safe to say it's a glitch

this is both on rep and imp btw

:

 

that's exactly what I'm talking

it's like clipping blade dance, 3 skil during precision windows, respecialization while in cover with gunsilnger

it's just a trick to do more and it is since the 3.0

I repeat this is not a glitch

 

Can you please describe what exactly you do in raid and in pvp duel to proc said glitch?

Tried to activate it with hard casting Chain Lightning, didnt work out.

 

it's very simple

get TKW under cooldowns

get pushback during your turbulence

 

Actually, it's other way around, this bug (and yes, it's certanly a bug) is a dps loss for Sith Sorcerer.

Thing is, Affliction, Creeping Terror or Demolish deal more damage per tick than Lightning Burns. Which means multiplication bonus from Death Marks gives you more, when it consumed by said DoTs, not by Lightning Burns.

 

it's funny to see that is the best dps who said that

there is not only 2 passive

there is also : Psychokinetic Torrent, Mental Scarring, Drain Thoughts

the result is still a significant loss of dps for the sage

[4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide]

As far as Weaken Mind goes, I will concede that you get more your way, but not as much as you think. The large gap in Weaken Mind hits in your 2 parses is partially explained by the fact that you did not use mental alacrity before your first Weaken Mind in the standard rotation but you did in your alternate rotation. As far as comparing anything to the top Sage parse, it doesn't matter because it utilizes a glitch therefore it is not legitimate, and regardless of how much you can make it happen, it is still a glitch and advocating it is something I will not do because it is not legitimate. Also to the point of viability, until I see some actual video and parsing evidence that shows that your way can even match the normal rotation, either this parse or this parse then I will remain unconvinced. If it is so good then it should be able to do so without a problem.

 

you can call it whatever you want (glitch, bug ...) but it is not .

this is how TK work

 

how do you know it's a glitch, are you one of the dev and you know exactly how TK work ??

 

you talk about rightfulness but take a look at the parse you link before talking about it, it just has an amazing proc rate (10 proc of turndering blast, using a glitch maybe ) and I don't even mention the crit rate (50%)

 

I would also like to talk about another bug / glitche on balance / madness

with sorcerer the lightning burns are boosted and consumes deathmarck

but with sage the rippling force are not bossted and consumes no force suppression

the result is a significant loss of dps for the sage

Now, which of the 2 class are glitch / bug ?? sage or sorcerer impossible to say because I'm not a dev