Thefriar
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Posts posted by Thefriar
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Thanks for info.
I am going to try to make it work because the playstyle is really fun. I do find its interesting for some players to try and figure out what the hell you are doing because they run into so few lethatlity operatives. The universal assumption is you are conceal or healing.
Arenas are pretty rough as no issues with survivability but the ramp up in damage just takes forever. Since the matches are almost over once the first player dies I see this is going to be a long term problem. I typically do half the damage of a warrior or sorc. Not good.
In warzones (longer time) when you can hide in a pack and do hit/run tactics I am usually in the top two in dps, not that total damage matters but you at least want to know its capable.
Cheers
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Thanks for the info.
Yes I have some ranked buddies who say they just don't see any lethality ops in ranked or many regs at 60. Hell even at sub 60 I don't see many now. In some ways I think that itself is valuable as other players just assume you are conceal or healing and set up their playstyle to fight those players.
The set up for the dps is rough and takes forever but I find when I stay in a group of players and pick my fights I am usually in the top two dps - not that total dps matters but its nice to know you are at least in the ballpark.
In arenas I seem to always be the last man standing if we lose. That could be because the other team considers me the lowest priority or it could be choosing when to engage from stealth. I don't know - time will tell. Because of the slow ramp up in damage and the short time of the matches I typically am only about 50% of the dps of a veng warrior or sorc which is not great.
Sticking with it and trying to make it work.
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So after playing bounty hunters, sages, and juggernauts I wanted to try something different. I rolled a lethality operative and actually liked the gameplay aspect of going in and out of range with hit/run dot tactics in pvp. Now that being said I am 57 and being told Lethality is a waste of time by many of my SWTOR friends. I just like the way it plays and that is enough for me to move onto 60 brackets and get facerolled by sorc/cons dots but I wanted to ask if anyone is having any success at 60 with lethality? Any advice you could give would be helpful.
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So after playing bounty hunters, sages, and juggernauts I wanted to try something different. I rolled a lethality operative and actually liked the gameplay aspect of going in and out of range with hit/run dot tactics in pvp. Now that being said I am 57 and being told Lethality is a waste of time by many of my SWTOR friends. I just like the way it plays and that is enough for me to move onto 60 brackets and get facerolled by sorc/cons dots but I wanted to ask if anyone is having any success at 60 with lethality? Any advice you could give would be helpful.
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I leveled my ops to 60 right as 3.0 dropped so I have no bias with regard to how it was to heal on prior to 3.0. I have been healing on a Commando and a Sorc since 2.0 so I am not new to healing.
Compared to my commando and sorc for healing I find the operative is underpowered. Most of the damage in this game is extremely high burst and the operative just can't keep up - note I am not talking about numbers but saving people's lives. I don't expect to be able to save a player who is being focused by three dps but I would at least like to prolong his death and I don't feel I can do that with this weak burst healing. The operative needs some bigger heals to move the needle and perhaps tone down the HOTs to compensate as to keep them on par.
I do find the operative to be an excellent back up healer assuming you have a Sorc/Commando in your group who can save a dying player being focused. If you have a main healer (the savior) then the operative can really shine by keeping people topped off.
Kolto Waves is garbage in anything but a disorganized PUG game. If I can't hit at least 5 people with it then I don't use it - doesn't happen very often.
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Hardest Class ever to play
Stun BS Stun BS BS incapacitate BS 40-50k damage done
Your right super hard.
You sir are an idiot. I award you no points...... and may God have mercy on your soul.
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You need to change this post to "4 Specs are really good"
You can't really whine about FOTM when there are 4 flavors.
From a WZ perspective:
Dot Sorcs/Cons are amazing for numbers but do they really move the bar on capturing objectives or turning the tide of battle when you have two competent or even average healers? No they don't.
PT/VGs are very bursty and they do move the bar on capturing but they have many, many weaknesses. They can't just jump into a fray of melee or they are destroyed. They run away quite a bit.
Deception/Shadow - yeah they are bursty but they also have tons of weaknesses. Although they may kill you in a one on one they can't enter a full on fray and have to run away all the time. Look at their numbers, if they are playing right they are always mid to mid high of dps pack. The deception/shadow people are whining about probably got off some lucky crits and found you alone guarding something. Get used to it, been like that for a while. Be thankful the deception shadow actually decided to stay deception shadow when the easier path would have to become dot.
From an arena perspective:
Dot Sorc/Cons are not that sexy.
PT/VGs can be amazing and somewhat overpowered. Two of them and its usually good game to the other team.
Deception/Shadow - yeah pretty amazing but wouldn't call it overpowered.
Jugg/Guardian - again excels at nothing - good at everything. The rare player can make them seem overpowered but isn't that with every class?
I don't know how jugs even make the list. They excel at nothing but are good at everything.
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Mara/Sent is horrible for PVP. In my opinion the worst class in the game at the moment although some will disagree. I would advise you to shelve your Mara/Sent and try anything else. They just don't bring anything to the table anymore.
Fortunate for you there are many options.
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You want fair fights in war?
People have the right to que together. If they happen to be good then they have the right to camp your spawn point because it gets booring just stepping over bodies on nodes. You also have the right to quit and most do. Thanks for the easy and quick wins.
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File this under:
Who Cares? Get to 60. Not like it takes that long anyway.
Sad losers who stay in the pre 59 bracket will always be a problem but you don't have to stay there for more than a week or two.
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It seems the FOTM is the class which can actually beat you. I mean I know its everyone's right to whine about classes just like every other MMO.
Bounty Hunters/Vanguards - surprised more people are not whining about the full 10 seconds of burst movement (when speced into) which can only be stopped by a stun. I know when I play my AP bounty hunter this to me feels overpowered and not the SC. The SC is powerful in the sense a Bounty Hunter/Vanguard can blow you up but it is capable of being mitigated through cc and def cooldowns (not the SC but the other burst combined which kills you) Sorcs can literally destroy Bounty Hunters/Vanguards in a few hits. Every class has their own bane and sorcs/cons are the bane of Vanguards/Powertechs at least in my humble opinion. Add to the fact there are so many more sorcs/cons running around and being a VG/BH becomes less sexy.
Sorcs/Cons are insane and have many tools to really make your life difficult but I wouldn't call them overpowered. Some class has to have an edge and right now Sorcs/Cons are it. Get used to it, play through it, get better. They are not impossible to deal with if you focus.
Jugg/Guardians - I don't find them overpowered at all. They have some nice burst and crazy defenses but I think there are very few who play them in a way which I feel as if its unbalanced.
I would agree some classes are underpowered but I think rather than hitting the nerf bat to BH/VG and SORC/CONS Bioware should focus on bringing the lagging classes up slightly.
Just my two cents
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You do realize the level of play (on a pve server) is no different from that of any other server right? .
Thanks for the laugh.
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Fighting bads, or people in warzones who don't have cooldowns/are already at low health are what account for these claims. See, in pvp an assassin may have the luxury of coming out of stealth with all of his cooldowns, but warriors don't. So they come and drop a spent player in a few seconds blowing all their cooldowns on a target which has none left, and consider that a duel.
since transferring to a PVP server is I notice a lot of bad marauders/sentinels, and if this is the pool from which you've tested your theories on class vs class its no wonder you think you're so OP.
You are either a troll or confused at quoting me. I said Maras were close fights not that I am OP. Plus you kind of lost all credibility on these forums when you said "since transferring to a PVP server." which implies your opinion doesn't really matter.
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I guess this is really a duel thread but most people are dragging their warzone experiences for 1v1 into this thread . I mean how often do you really duel another player at 55 not in a warzone? I guess if you want bragging rights sure but does it really matter?
Been playing a deception shadow for the last 15 months. I played deep deception when it wasn't cool and now I still play it buffed up.
I don't ever really run into a healer guarding something solo in a warzone so I couldn't even really comment on how a op or sorc would do vs me but I tend to kill them pretty fast even when its not in a group and sometimes with them being guarded.
I thought a sorc speced properly would be really horrible to duel. Dots, slows, heals, and snares. I feel as if they would just wear me down so I tested it with a sorc buddy after I read this thread who was fully conq as I am. The fight did not go well for me with him winning 6 out of 10 duels. However he was also 100% aware of what was coming every time so in a wz environment with him guarding a node I feel I probably could have taken him out before he could react. I was just shocked at how hard he was to kill.
My sorc healer buddy stated it was easier to fight a sin in a duel because you know exactly what to expect. That when I realized "knowing" what was going to attack him negates much of the deception ambush. The only reason I mention this is because its a thread about dueling.
As for marauders/sents I call bullxhit on the deception shadow/sins who say they have 80% of their health up after a duel. I guess you are just playing really horrible marauders because the rated imp ones on Bastion will mess you up. I typically win vs a geared mara guarding a node but its very very close with me having about 10% health and almost having to reset the fight.
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For Ranked PVP:
Lets face it. Healers hate dps crits especially from a shadow. I hate them as a healer because if there are enough of them I can't overcome it.
I can see how power could win out in a longer engagement. The issue I have here is that I don't have long engagements. Good teams pull, stun, grenade, LOS, and travel as one huge group. My target (always a healer and always focused with other dps) either dies fast or doesn't die at all. The concept of wearing down an opponent over time is a loser in ranked play with good healers and guarders, They must be ambushed and die in 3/4 seconds if you team wants the upperhand. I'm not saying going power is wrong but I will take the slot machine of 5% more crit over some more power.
Will you do more total damage with power? Sure. I just don't think doing slightly more damage over an extended time is really the point when you are trying to remove a near invulnerable healer being guarded and offhealed. An extra crit every 30 seconds can be what took that healer down and turned the tide.
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NIce video. My spec is the same and I play my shadow the same. It's very fun.
Agree with you about your spec. The armor increase and force increase in those two infil talents are worthless
One question. I noticed your shadow strike sometimes didn't execute as there was a stutter when you were behind a target and it looked like you had to hit SS again. I don't know if this is a known bug with SS but I had this same problem because I hit the key for SS multiple times when I want it to execute and had this same stutter.
I trained myself to hit it once and I never have this stutter anymore although sometimes due to lag it won't go off and its annoying. Not sure what to do about it other than play through.
Cheers
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If you guys have not figured it out yet Bioware doesn't care about your pvp problems. This should be a great pvp game but its not. It had the makings of a great pvp game but the slow changes to everything bugged or overpowered really means they don't care.
Don't believe me? Then explain why people went for three weeks exploiting the augment hack after it was known to everyone. If its that hard and that low priority to just make it where augments don't impact bolster for almost a month then how much of a priority do you think it is for the devs to fix the real issues with pvp bolster?
Again its Bioware just pandering to the hand of the lowest common denominator which is F2P and PVE people who randomly pvp. If you have to cater to F2P people then you can't ever make pvp great because it has to include people that are not really serious about the game and pvp in general.
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I really don't want any more a monetary reward for pvp. Learn how to craft and send you boys out on missions while you pvp - its really really easy.
Providing a financial reward for pvp will encourage all kinds of terrible PVE players to que and ruin the random ques which are already pretty bad.
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I put my PT away after 1.6 and went back to it for just a bit in 2.0. There is no doubt PTs needed a nerf Pre 2.0 as I would just melt people but just like the op/smuggler nerf in the opening months of SWTOR, Bioware went too far.
I play an infil shadow now and I pretty much laugh at the PT class now. I would agree they need a small buff to damage or a healing debuff.
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Not unlike what others have said.
3 Heals is really boss in something like Hypergate or Voidstar where there are only two objectives but three heals will suffer in Civil War, Nov Coast, and be vastly underpowered in Huttball due to their lack of ball running skills. Killing people in huttball is not even an objective for a good team so more than two heals would be complete waste over characters that can run the ball and take a beating.
Even in Hypergate where I think the three heals would help the most wise stealth and focus tactics can still bring people down.
Maybe you just need to group with better dps because we all know 90% of random qued dps is terrible.
Good luck
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Yeah the 7k plus shadow strikes on ungeared people do give me the giggles, poor buggers.
It would appear with the changes coming in 2.0 everyone playing a infil build will need start using SS at a higher level anyway so you might as well get used to it, Its wicked fun.
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About gear, did you change some of your mods or is everything standard ewh setup with augments?
More precisely, how much crit do you have and what do you suggest, since a non-crit SS makes me sick
I am sitting at 31.1% crit and 77% surge. All my augs are overkill End/Power. I swapped out a few mods to lower my accuracy and improve my power and surge but basically its mostly EWH. Its a highlight reel rotation (slot machine) and not something I would recommend for everyone but when its hits and you get two SS crits (cooldowns ready) its just devastating to a healer when you follow up with a project - their hots can't keep up. It may be a 2 minute wonder but constatly bashing a healer can mean the difference between a win and a loss.
As I mentioned above, good healers who have backups will find a way to outlast you but most (90%) won't and will get frustrated really fast.
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Infil Shadow Hybrid. Full Elite WH auged with rated experience since they came out.
Why use a SS dominated rotation? Its very spikey damage, grossly inefficient, and a blast to play. I won't defend this as being the best, it's not, but its different and fun to play.
I use the 27/14 spec since FIB offers more damage and utility than CS. I have used both specs and I can't find any reason why someone would use CS when FIB offers a aoe cap breaker with a 30 range. I could see in a 1v1 situation CS being slightly better vs a longer 1v1 fight with a tank but thats about it.
I agree with the others posting about popping cooldowns and using FIB, Breach, and Project for best front end damage, however I don't typically use that rotation. What is great about the infil sin is all the options you have at your disposal. There is no one best way to play a sin - every target offers a unique way to deal with them.
This is far from a conclusive guide. The following is just my opinion on how to have sucess with a shadow so those that use the classic rotation of FIB, Breach, Project I am not saying you are wrong or I am better. My strat probably came from playing a backstab rouge in vanilla WOW as I don't mind constantly moving to get to an opponents backside - I realize some people don't want to play like this.
Because of the force drain of this rotation I don't use double strike ( yeah I know weird) I use the regular attack if low on force as a filler to build up force for my next SS. I never get circling shadows and really I don't miss it.
My stats for most non-rated warzones (non rated) 375k to 400k damage, 40k protection, higest damage dealt 6k or better. (15 medals but who cares about medals anyway). I don't play for damage, kills, or medals. I want to win so some of these games I sat on a node or hypergate guarding for the whole game but we won.
Rated Warzone stats - who cares I just want to win and play as a team.
SS damage on BM geared non tank targets (self buffed) 4.5-5.4k
SS damage on WH geared non tank targets (self buffed) 4.1-4.9k
SS damage on Elite WH geared non tank targets (self buffed) 3.2-4k
SS damage on Geared Tank Targets (self buffed) 2.8-3.3k
This data is from a fairly low sample size - 10 games.
In all cases I pop my offensive cds before engaging and taunt everytime its up. I do weave low slash and denesive cooldowns into these rotations but its always random and situational:
In a regular warzone vs mediocre non tank opponents, I actually open with Shadow Strike>>Blackout>>Shadow Strike>>FIB>>Breach>>Force Slow>>Project. In most cases that target is almost dead and I can execute to finish them off. Killing undergeared players shows no skill... but it sure is fun.
In a regular warzone vs good non tank opponents, I open with shadow strike>>blackout>>shadow strike (usually get stunned at this point, pushed, or target activates def cooldown. Break the cc if its a longer duration then cast Project>>Breach>>Force Slow>>FIB>>Shadow Strike>>Execute Target typically dead. If target is still up force cloak>>spinning strike>>SS>>execute.
In a regular warzone vs tanks and marauder/sents. I open with Shadow Strike>>Blackout>>Kite>>Project>>Force Slow>>FIB>>Breach>>Force Cloak>>Wait three seconds for invul to wear off>>spinning kick>>Shadow Strike>>Force Stun>>Project>>Execute Target Typically dead. Eat the stuns from them unless its about to be a smash and then would break and push them back.
In rateds I go after healers and healers only. Typically I go after operatives as I feel we have a great skill set to deal with op healers. If their second healer (typically a sorc) is called as the kill target, I sneak around the smash tank wall of death and wait patiently for the fist healer operative to appear and start healing - this may take a while and requires patience. Once he appears and casts his first hot I am on top of him with SS>>SS>>eat his 4 second stun>>force slow>>Project>>breach>>shadow strike>>force cloak>>gain distance>>spinning kick>> shadow strike>>he vanishes>>FIB to pull him out of stealth (works almost every time)>>Project>>shadow strike>>execute. I do always reserve FIB for his vanish which many people will probably disagree with but pulling him back out of his stealth is huge. I don't find our push to be as effective to pull the op out of his vanish.
Obviously always interupting any castable heals he tries to make. This may take a while and hopefuly you have teamate help but my only objective is to constantly make his life a living hell and force other memebers of his party to come to his aid. I don't get the most kills and I am not trying to - I want my team to win. I do use low slash when needed in the rotation.
If the smash train turns their attention on you while trying to take out a healer you will probably die, quickly. But keep getting on the healer and harrass, stun, slow, and silence. Try to isolate the healer whenever possible because they always set up behind the wall of smash and sometimes you can get then down to nothing before they get teamate aid. Many experienced healers will really get frustrated when you constantly are on top of them an entire match. The pro healers will just heal on and you can only try to limit them as best you can.
I do sometimes switch to tank stance and guard healers where appropriate. I find my SS damage to still be enough to be competitive in this horrible stance but the healer survivies longer.
Keep supporting SWTOR PVP. Adapt. Enjoy.
-T
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Posted in wrong forum
Punish inapropriate behaviour in warzones!
in PvP
Posted · Edited by Thefriar
Language
What this guy Said! I would add to it that competition in any sport creates this behavior however in the MMO world the lack of consequences intensifies it. I have said some horrible things and no doubt to new players who didn't deserve it. I would call it sportsmanship but its not - its making yourself feel superior. I changed my ways because it really doesn't ever help people get better which is what you are mad about in the first place.