Thefriar
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Posts posted by Thefriar
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I always do weapons and offhand first for any class followed by relics and ear/implants. I also wouldn't bother with replacing the mods until you get your highest set as you are dragging out the process. Power/surge augs will typically outperform crit/surge and main stat augs with an operative but since I don't know your playstyle or if you have all the datacrons you will have to play with the numbers yourself to maximize.
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This is a fair argument but I am not really sure what the solution is.
Create a third bracket (30-49) and que times drag out which is even more unpopular than imbalance.
Balance around mid pvp and you could wreck end game pvp (which already has some issues).
You can play a healer or tank which is a solution although not a very good one as you will still get blown up by high 50s. At least you can feel as if you help in the objectives.
Fix bolster? Due to some unknown reason Bioware hasn't been able to make bolster work as intended since it was launched. This would be great but I am not sure Bioware has the desire or skill to do this.
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Guess I am in the minority here. You want everything even in PVP, fair enough. Telling other people what to play or to shelve a character they have played for years just because they are "FOTM" now is unrealistic and a waste of time.
I play a Lethality Operative, Marauder, and a AP Powertech. I don't feel more noble or dirty playing any of them. My operative/maruader is very weak in arenas but I play them anyway because I enjoy it. My AP Powertech is more powerful than many other classes but I play it because I enjoy it.
If you want life to be fair then everyone should duel one on one with only one class. That is as fair as its going to get. Sound fun? Not to me.
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I like the arenas in the regular que but I do understand why so many want this changed.
When you get an arena and have no desire to fight then just drop it and reque early as possible so the group can still get backfilled. I don't pretend to understand the matchmaking algorithm used by Bioware but I doubt dropping fast and requeing quickly would create much longer wait times for your objective warzone. If you keep getting arenas then probably there are not enough people queing for your objective warzone anyway. Since Bioware doesn't share this info there is no way to really know for sure.
There are times when not enough people are queing for regs and I would rather get a que for arena than wait 5-10 Minutes for an objective warzone. I realize everyone doesn't think this way and I respect their opinion.
No regular random warzone que would mean the death of reg arenas. Maybe not a bad thing but I doubt they will change this.
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I would be all for 2V2. You would have to create a separate que for it which I don't know if Bioware is willing to do.
I think 2V2 would be much more balanced than 4V4 is NOW without tweaking anything. It would be like old school WOW arena made up of DPS/Healer and DPS/DPS teams.
Sounds fun although I have my doubts if we will ever see it.
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I personally don't leave a WZ even if I am grouped with ungeared players. I also don't leave when the first 2 minutes of a warzone isn't going in our team's direction. I don't get mad at people who do bail out but would prefer they do it at the start so we can backfill with a full group.
I have seen too many games start out bad and ended well (win) to bail after one minute of things not going my way.
To each his own.
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19.5K Energy Burst done with my Powertech to a Sent. I assume he was ungeared as I have never seen that one time damage since. I almost pissed my pants.
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1. randomness has nothing to do with it 1 is objective based the other is death match.. not even the same thing
2. see 1
3. at some point its not about comms anymore then you just do it because it's fun( hence why some of us want to chose where we have our fun)
4. time is not really an issue for those of us that prefer objective based PvP
1. So you want it to be like WOW. Que for an Arena or Que for a Warzone. I guess that is not unreasonable except many of us actually DO like the randomness of something different every few games.
4. Maybe you should group with all these "like minded people" who like only Objective Based Play. You will rarely get rolled in a random deathmatch in a premade group. Even if you don't like deathmatches and it puts you out to play them you will 90% of the time be facing a PUG in Regs.
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How about this?
Put the mailbox on the bridge leading away from the mission kiosks. Mailboxes are under a series of toxic sludge pipes from New Huttball and Fire Pits from classic Huttball which would facilitate quick mail checking.
You can also have a Illum Base gun set up that anyone can jump on and shoot up the bridge the person is trying to check his mail on.
I know, contrived but hey, we are pvpers - have to make it something more than just a box.
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Why would they remove this?
1) It's Random - not like its every game
2) It's over faster than a regular warzone. You can do three arenas in the time it takes to do one decent Voidstar
3) It doesn't count. Even if you get facerolled and its bugged, it doesn't mean anything. Collect your coms and move on
4) PUGS get facerolled in regular warzones too VS good premades, just takes longer.
I would really prefer to face a strong permade in an areana than in a long Huttball or Voidstar. Pick your battles.
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Yeah I remember the concealment video, that was... horror ^^. He played it like a ranged class.
And as for dot spamming, I completly agree. I did lately an "experiment" with Lethality Operative, I just run around dotting everybody for the whole warzone, doing nothing else, just keeping dots on all enemies in sight and throwing hots on allies. I topped the charts on both damage and heals by a huge margin but I accomplished absolutely nothign during that warzone. We lost of course, but the funniest thing was that I got like 4 mvp votes lol. Kinda sad.
On the othe hand I had some games where it felt like I won the game on my own, stealing nodes, defending on my own agains 2-3 ppl, preventing from capping, just doing a lot of usefull stuff that had huge impact on the game outcome, yet all the mvp votes went to some hatred assasin who spend whole time dot spreading mindlesly. Sad how many ppl are interested only in topping dps charts.
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in MVP votes. Most people just vote for anyone with highest damage or heals and leave to reque. Very few look at objective points which many times wins a match.
I think some of the people raging about Lethality dotting everything are kind of silly in regular warzones. Its a dot based spec no matter how you play it. Some play by dotting and then going in to focus a target and others just focus one target all the time. I rarely see a lethality just dotting from range - that's probably because I am the only lethality spec in 90% of my warzones
The greatest thing about the spec is it's so situational as to how you play it.
Now in ranked if you are sitting back and dotting without focus you are really doing it wrong and are a liability to your team.
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So just to be clear, you dont use any piece with accuracy, right?
Also hwo importand is accuracy for lethality? Can I get by without any?
For Lethality accuracy is worthless. I have none and never miss due to all tech attacks.
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Yea, I meant to say that when you are defending, surviving does become important, but less in offense.
Yesterday I had a real fun 1vs1 with a hatred sin. My team was kind of commenting about my "tremendous dps" in that duel (barely anything
at the start), but with stuns, mezzes, kiting and self-heals, I could get my health up (started at 20% while sin around 80) and burst the sin down. Then a lethality ops really shines.Have fun playing! Go Lethality!!
Yeah I feel ya on the hatred sins. If I can survive long enough to ramp up damage then I love the look of panic they have when they realize:
"Hey this attacker isn't dying........."
Wait hey, this attacker can actually hurt me........"
"I'm dead, *** just happened?"
"He must have been cheating"
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I play leth in ranked and I like it A LOT. If you will try it as well; good luck! Don't expect to be the new Hatred sin, but leths can contribute more than their share. With some of the things you say I totally agree, with others less...
A. Cor. Grenade's damage seems to suck yea, but it has idd all the advantages u said. But imo most importantly is that it can become strong after lethal strike & toxic blast and ofc the effect on cor. assault.
B. In arenas you aren't in a bad place. Certainly not OP, but OK. Off heals seem to matter most in those 3dps/1tank matches, but it can be the difference any time. It is risky in the way that you sometimes forget you are a burst dps and that is youre main job that you do best.
C. Got to disagree here. Yes you don't have to die a lot if you don't want to. But in non-arenas, dieing isn't bad, unless you are the last man defending a node. Often I prefer to use cloaking screen and other cooldowns to max my burst at a certain time. People rarely notice that, for example in Voidstart attacking round, or ACW/NC when you only have 1 turret, deaths matter squat. It's burst, kills and caps that matter. This changes when you must defend. AH is a different story, as your deaths give the enemy points. I try to escape deaths as much as possible there, and Leth is perfect for that idd.
D. Frag grenade doesn't suck, but because it does so much less damage than cor. assault or lethal strike, I wouldn't include it in my rotation. Only use it as a last resort, when youre >10m away, target's already dotted and self heals are not necessary.
E. Hit and Run?! Really? I've never tried it, so no expert on this point, but for Leth it seemed useless, as after a shiv, you usually want to cor. assault, which has 10m range. So that would only help if your target ran away more than 6m in one CD. I'd ditch it, Nanotech Suit, Chem-Resistant Inlays, Infiltrator and Slip Away are better imo.
F. No no no nooooo. Leth ops is not sustained, it's delayed burst. Dotting the whole team might give stellar numbers, but in regs it's less than maximum efficient, and in ranked it dooms your whole team. Focus the main target, burst it down with Toxic Blast->Lethal Strike->3 or 4 cor. assaults. Of course, when they are all on one heap, I can't resist throwing a cor. grenade in it, but I'd say it is not your main job to dot everyone.
G. (Lethality) operatives might be the nr. 1 1vs1 class at the moment. Even Hatred sins go down crying. Flash grenade or Debilitate and heal up is key when you are in trouble.
H. See C.
I. Oh yea!
J. I play it without, but I do see why people choose it. It's more that I prefer other utilities more. Unlike concealment, lethality can be effective outside melee range, either through cor. assault, toxic blast, self heals or dotting. But yea, sometimes a root-breaker is just what you need.
K. Yea, node guarding goes well, although I'd say that is more because we are stealth than because we are lethality. I just often feel to valuable to node guard (but I'm not a type that just leaves nodes unguarded, dont worry).
In ranked it is important to watch your health ofc, but I dont get focussed that much. Mercs, PTs, snipers, mara's and sometimes sorcs seem to be first in line. My most important finding is that while staying alive is paramount, your main job is bursting down your targets. Off heals first to keep yourself up (if there is no healer in your team), and only sometimes others. You are no full-specced healer, eventhough it might seem that way when you compare your hps to your dps at the end of the warzone
Thanks for feedback. That post was written mainly for regs but I agree with what you are saying for arenas after playing a few weeks. Delayed burst is the only way to go.
I don't play defensive in a ranked. I did remove hit and run utility and agree its not the best anymore. Still don't know how you don't take countermeasures but would agree its not as important in ranked.
I do disagree with you on playing defensive in regs depending on many situations. There actually are many situations where running away and not dying in regs is helpful such as:
Voidstar Defensive
Civil War/ Nov Coast Node Guarding
Civil War/Nov Coast Node Harrasing (moving the guards off the node you want)
Hypergate - pretty obvious here
It sounds like you play offense all the time in regs which is cool if it works for you.
Cheers
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Doubt it will work but I am trying it. Good idea.
Has anyone accomplished the following:1) Stealth to their end zone.
2) Setup phase walk on the edge
3) Grap ball
4) Run close to phase walk spot
5) Throw ball towards the spot
6) Phase walk to catch your own throw and score.
Would be wicked cool.
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Agents and Smugglers don't exactly have it very good in this game with regard to pvp. Healing is subpar to average. Concealment is decent but still nowhere near assasins. Lethality - yeah well we all know Lethality has it rough.
Only concealment gets the cool 1.5 second immunity from rolling. Healers and Lethality ops don't get that.
Doing two rolls is really not that special compared to a juggernaut jumping all over the board, a assassin burst running and removing all snares, a powertech having 10 full seconds of increased speed while not being snared.
Its all relative. Roll is good but not great compared to other mechanics.
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You won't survive the onslaught of three powertechs on you -ever. I rarely see three person ptech teams so this is not an issue on my server. If you are done with healing, consider trying lethality. You can get away from powertechs and make their life miserable in the process.
Ptechs have it good and its probably not going to change any time soon.
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Wizbasky has multiple videos. In one of them he sits back and dots which I don't agree with either. However his usual rotation is sound and if you are new to lethality its better to watch him and then adjust your gameplay than to have nothing at all to introduce you to the spec.
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Wizbasky has a few lethality videos on youtube you should check out. Lethality is a strange spec which can't really be learned by reading a guide. You have to play around with it to figure out how to be effective as everyone has their own take on the spec.
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Ok so I am OP.
I stuck with Lethality and I still really like it for the most part. I am in half ranked gear now and its starting to hit pretty well. I am by no means an expert on lethality but what I have found so far:
A) Corrosive Grenade damage does suck as other have posted BUT it does the following:
1) Snares all targets in an small aoe for 6 seconds. 30M range is nice.
2) Spammable
3) Debuffs the target for 45 seconds to take 7% more internal and elemental damage
You add all that up and its really not terrible. The damage sux but it is annoying as hell to the other team.
B) Lethality is a 8 V 8 class but you are not worthless in arenas. Ghetto heals when its a 4V4 dps games can actually turn the tide quite well if your team doesn't have tunnel vision.
C) Kind of like Wizbasky has posted in his videos I rarely die. One death a warzone I am annoyed. Twice and I feel like I failed. Between roll, evasion, kolto infusion, revitilizers, kolto probes, shields, counterstrike, flashbang and advanced cloaking you can get away from almost any fight you don't want to fight. I think that is where many lethality ops are having issues in that you HAVE to run away.... ALOT. The good news is while running away you still have many tools to put out damage like your dots and frag grenade.
D) Frag grenade doesn't suck. Its thrown from 30M with AOE damage- use it. Great cap breaker. I wasn't even using it until I saw Wizbasky's video and now I can't imagine life without it.
E) Hit and Run is actually good. Getting away faster after you shiv is good, real good. If you are leaning toward more dot from the fringes or feel you have to just max cull and be in the fray all the time then hit and run isn't for you. If you have a Hit and Run style (which I do) its awesome.
F) After you initial opener, dotting the whole other team is what you should be doing before you go in for focus again. The damage isn't stellar but those constant long lasting dots do put more pressure on the healers to top off. Did I mention the dots last a long time and debuff the targets?
G) I don't find Sorcs that hard to handle in a 1 v 1 scenario. Perhaps its because there are so many bad sorcs. If you are constantly roll healing and kolto probing yourself you can wear them down with patience. Did I mention we take 30% less damage (most of their attacks) from the most common spec in the game?
H) If you are dying more than 1-2 times per WZ you are not running away enough or are picking hopeless fights. I think most of this spec is picking your battles properly before you attack.
I) Popping evasion and casting a heal when a juggernaut leaps to me is one of the most satisfying moments of my warzones.
J) I don't know how anyone plays lethality without countermeasures. It saves my life at least once per warzone.
K) Lethality is a very good node guarding spec. You are not burst but you can prevent someone from capping for a long time until teammates arrive. In Civil War at snow or grass and with all the hiding places, I feel I can hold off 3 stealth dps for at least 20-25 seconds. If its a one on one with any class I can hold out forever.
What I do which is not perfect but its fun:
1) From stealth Lethal Strike (Many don't do this and I understand their argument why but it works for me)
2) Shiv
3) Run like hell hit em with corrosive grenade
4) Toxic Dart
5) Run back in toxic blast (Roll Situational)
6) Cull, Cull
7) Shiv
8) Cull
9) Run like hell dotting everyone with grenade and dart (Roll Situational)
10) Go back in Lethal Strike
11) Shiv
12) Cull, Cull
As soon as I feel myself being focused I'm out. Roll, Heal, Kolto Probe, Countermeasures and keep running until you are no longer being focused. Vanish as a last resort. Dot while you run away to keep those running. You should rarely die. Don't be afraid to just stay on the fringes dotting and fragging. Wait for a good time and roll back in for some quick burst. This hit and run style is really annoying to people guarding nodes.
If you are one of those that feel DPS matters in Warzones I am pulling 1.1M a game. Dots or not I feel that is decent combined with almost never dying.
I played a AP Powertech first in 3.0 and although Lethality is just not on par with that burst you can wear targets out once you get going. Its the waiting for the get going which is rough.
Good luck to all and I will update as I get slaughtered in ranked
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Thanks for the feedback. I know its not up to par but I don't feel its the worst either if played properly.
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Yeah I have a hatred cons at 60. Its awesome no doubt. I like to try to make something work which most people feel won't . Although likely to fail I don't really care. I am sure I could be more effective as hatred but I like to play classes which are unpopular. I know its weird
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Its not perfect but I feel Bastion is pretty balanced pvp wise. The server is (guessing here) 3 to 1 imps. The pubs field some great teams though. Even in a imbalanced population you must have good teams play eachother eventually. The solution although it seems weird is get on a server which is imp/pub population tilted to one side which means good teams have not choice than to play eachother.
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Thanks for even more info. As I have done about 20 warzones today this is what I have discovered:
As was mentioned you are a decent off healer so I have started to heal a bit more, thanks for the advice - better than nothing.
I tend to be able to escape a fight I don't want to fight. This is huge as if I don't like how its going I can almost always get away.
Although the roll is not as powerful as conceal I do like the instant hot as its saved me more than a few times
As was also mentioned before counterstrike seems pretty mandatory to not get rooted
I also love revitalizers to be a bit more tanky
If you play lethality as a AP bounty hunter lethality can be a real pain and you will be disappointed. If you play it as a utility class that can offheal, it seems much better than most give it credit for.
I am going to find the happy medium and be a jack of all trades and master of none. Time will tell if it can do anything at the higher levels. I still believe there is more to this spec than most realize.
at the start), but with stuns, mezzes, kiting and self-heals, I could get my health up (started at 20% while sin around 80) and burst the sin down. Then a lethality ops really shines.
So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This
in PvP
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Toxic Bullying - seriously? You are playing a PVP based game about space wizards who kill one another over and over. Every PVP game that has ever existed has top tier players who don't care about hurting your feelings - they get off on it actually. If you are venting I hope you feel better *hands player cookie and directions to safe space*. If you are serious maybe PVP isn't for you because what you call bullying exists everywhere in PVP games. Perhaps try a PVP game which doesn't have a chat function.