[Juggs squishy with weak dps]

I have a 50 Commando (Gunnery), 50 Sentinel (Combat) and a 42 Juggernaut (Vengeance). 10-20? Yeah, they were weak with only a handful of abilities aimed at a tank role (Sunder, Taunt, AoE CC and damage). From 20-(Current) I haven't had ONE issue what so ever. None. Period. I use Quinn because I like less downtime between fights. My own gear was severely lacking as I leveled because I PvP'd a lot, which I used to just strait up skip Tatooine (god I hate that planet). I didn't upgrade a single piece of gear for Quinn, and I was wearing mostly lvl 25~ gear spare my sword which I kept up to date. I hit Hoth and things did start to sting a little, but no more than on my Sentinel. When I got Impale, DPS just got silly. Leap in, Sunder, Ravage, Impale, Shout. IF the target was still alive, repeat till it was dead. At 40, I got a full set of PvP gear for myself and Quinn. Belsavis is just silly-fun, I have to go nuts to be in any sort of trouble. Haven't tried any 2+... I should.

 

 

 

Ravage is hard to use in PvP as a Jugg, yes, but it's a POWERHOUSE. I also refuse to let myself be ignored, I make people die if they don't pay attention to me. Do I die? You bet your sweet arse I die- a lot. But I play my role: I taunt like mad, I keep the green-spraying BH safe(ish), and wreak as much havoc as I can. I rarely, if ever, walk out of ANY WZ, win or lose, with less than 6 medals. (2/5/10k Guard, 10 kills, Killing Blow, 75k damage.)

 

 

I laugh at people that think PvP damage is a fair judge of "top end" damage. I'm not saying that my Jugg is the best, as the best I've seen to date is 107k (pre-Shatter talent), but I will say the Jugg is not to be snubbed. On my Commando I can EASILY get 300k damage... in Voidstar, and at times in Civil War. How? AoE. I can also do this on my Sentinel if I bust my arse. On the same token, in Huttball I will gladly do 50k total damage and make 3+ goals and/or winning passes.

 

 

Quinn (and Doc for that matter) are a little buggy and won't heal you when you charge in too far, or go behind a wall. Even still, I have zero issues soloing 2 strongs at once, or even a same-level elite 1v1. CDs are your friend, as is Biochem. WITH Quinn, my "best" pull to date was right after I loaded out of a WZ... and in between two packs of 2 strongs and 3 normals. THAT was fun... but Quinn (who I let take agro from a few) nor I dropped under 70%. My rotation now is basically Charge in, sunder, ravage, impale. The target USUALLY isn't alive after that, and my Ravage is back up- on target 2, Ravage -> Sunder -> Shatter -> Shout. Let them bleed for a little and start on target 3: Impale, Sunder, Smash (this WILL kill target 2 if it's alive), shatter. My DPS is almost on par with my sentinel's (who's gear wasn't kept up-to date, admittedly, but sabers always take precedence) but my survivability was much better.

 

 

 

 

1-25 is rough, I guess, but then it isn't painful unless you're trying to take on content two levels over you. It isn't a hindrance, and definitely does not reflect what the class can do at 30, 40, or 50.

Sometimes it isn't the class, it's the player. If you pick a class you aren't passionate about, you aren't going to play them to their fullest. For me, I love brutal melee. It's why I know I don't play my Commando well. I also tried an Assassin, and the play style just doesn't suit me and I suck as an Assassin.

 

Sounds like your just more passionate about the class than I am, seems were doing the same dps, killing the same difficulty in creatures accept I'm just not happy with the classes performance and you are.

 

True PvP isnt the best judge for damage, although I can run any other dps class out in the warzone and see 2500-3500k on main abilities and secondary abilities doing in upwards of 2k which I can use often in a rotation and then compare that do 1500 on crits with a Jugg main ability and 500-700 on secondary abilities and you can see why I'm disappointed by damage output.

 

As it is now, Juggs do half the damage as every other class. That just doesnt cut it. Combine that with no CC's and on top of that allow quite a few mobs to sunder, or do damage which bypass your armor and it kind of makes tanking aggrevating.

 

I don't count force choke as a CC because well, your CC'd during its course which defeats the purpose.

 

I'm currently Immortal spec and true my dps shouldnt be the best, although at its current state its just too weak. As well as my current survivability when I compare it to other classes fulfilling the same role.

 

EDIT: The mistake I made was thinking this class could solo tank with healer pet, I'm seeing I should of gone DPS spec with a tank pet for leveling.

[Juggs squishy with weak dps]

Jugg DPS is pretty horrible , I hear it gets better at higher level. As of now I have one up to 25th level, I've played two characters to 50th and in comparison leveling, their not even in the same ballpark. It's definitely a challenge being soft and low in dps.

 

Typically in PvP I average 40-60k damage a match, hardest hitting ability is Ravage which does around 1500ish ( This isn't a great ability for PvP either ) . Other than that most players can pretty much ignore you and be fine.

 

I've played all the classes to fairly decent levels and I must say the DPS a juggernaut puts out is definitely at the bottom. Vanguards are far more sturdy and can easily put out 100k dps from level 10 on in PvP matches. Good matches you can get 200k+.

 

In PvE, you can handle a few mobs , but you have to kill fast, because you don't have any staying power. I can kill a gold elite with healing companion out, and do pretty well. I've taken out two silver and 3 regulars, again you have to kill fast.

 

This is all heavily reliant on your healing companion and your cooldowns. Sometimes it can get frustrating, because the healing companion is by no means a good healer, at least at my current level. Some battles he won't even heal me. Others, he will toss a few my way.

 

The juggernaut definitely needs some love 1-25, I'm betting this will continue to at least early to late 40's.

[SAGE Lightning]

Or another angle; make it alignment dependent...

 

Sorc : Force Lightning: While Darkside/neutral

Sorc : Pebbles : While lightside

 

Sage : Force Lightning : While Darkside

Sage : Pebbles : While Lightside/Neutral

 

Kills two birds with one stone (no pun intended): those who complain about activation time can go dark and get lightning and would truly make a mirror class.

 

A good idea and a fair compromise to those who don't like the cheesy pebble animations.

[SAGE Lightning]

First of all, I hope we can all agree the pebbles and television throwing is just lame for light side.

 

Force lightning needs to be implemented for the sage. Throw out the garbage animations they have already, and give them lightning. It's in the films, light side can cast lightning as well, I don't see this being an issue.

 

This would boost the class appeal and bring back some much needed balance from many stand points both animation wise, class wise, and encourage players to revive a dying class.

[Expertise...why?]

Expertise is just a crutch for bad players, so they too can have their moment in the sunshine.

 

The whole argument that someone who grinds the PvP equipment should have an advantage over everyone else. Well they already do WITHOUT Expertise. Especially if your 50th, you have gear for your level, you can exceed the scaling hitpoint threshold of 12k, and you have all your abilities and skill trees trained.

 

If that isn't enough, then read the statement above because that applies to you.

[Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)]

Definitely a serious issue that needs attention, hopefully the Devs can resolve it.