Disclaimer: I reply to this by my own volition, and does not translate the views or disposition of Resurgum as a guild. We had some good matches, and with the composition we had (in contrast to the more competitive arena past) on PoT5, it was the best we could manage. I, however, don't recall who you are, or why you're trying to blatantly mock me? So, to introduce myself, I'm Caroth: http://i.imgur.com/hPNq9BL.jpg?1 http://imgur.com/eqVwetf http://imgur.com/CdJbdyi http://imgur.com/1n02itk http://imgur.com/sASDyCN http://imgur.com/yDtyHjR Here's the specialization I've used since launch: http://imgur.com/refdTV1 My gear apportionment: http://imgur.com/CCLphk7 Just a few personality traits: I don't tolerate unprecedented insults or misguided spats towards friends or kin. It's a game, 100% not necessary. I'll respect all players until they try to put on an era of superiority towards decent people they'll never have the chance to meet or get to know due to their oblivious, haughty nature. If I need to defend my stance, I will. I'm competitive (If you can find better, show me, I implore you in all honesty). Regardless, I hope to see you guys around for the next month; I'll be done after August due to college starting up.

It's been a long while since I've been on, so just now updating. Caroth: Lifetime everything, I suppose. http://imgur.com/ZxcFsZv Highest Rank (Solo): 2508 (http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/class/vanguard-powertech) Under Season 1 Thanks!

I honestly do agree with you on the fact that the defensive capabilities need to be dispersed more wisely. From my experience in 4v4 ranked team scenarios, I do find that these AP tanks are priority #1 for single target focus, and in most cases they melt rapidly provided efficient CCs of the healer. However, I've been 37/7/2 practically since launch on my Vanguard/PT for PvE and PvP tanking purposes. What I'm finding is, regardless of the conventional mitigation chances in consideration of guard splash damage, the 16% defense, 35% shield, and 50% absorb I attain are essentially useless in scenarios in which the opposing group focuses the tank with armor penetration or DoTs. Sure, there's oil slick, yet melee can just relocate, and ranged don't even have to worry about it. Reactive Shield's 25% dmg reduction with a 13% up time is nice, when it's rarely available. The shoulder cannon heal I have is hardly noticeable in a situation where dpsers yielding 800-1300 dps are focusing, and Adrenaline Rush is on a three minute cooldown after possibly healing for at most 30% of my health. Is it truly logical, when adjacent tank classes have such a wide array of utility cool downs (50% defense chance cool downs, 50% damage reduction cool downs, immunity to tech and force for 4 seconds, complete reflection to tech and force for 3-5s, stealth, a 30ish meter escape teleport, 1/3 health increases for around 20 seconds), to merely give a legitimate tank spec 25% damage reduction and momentary, minor heals? Seeing dps have more defensive passives and cool downs in relation to the tank tree is a bit puzzling. -Hochschirm, PoT5 -Caroth, JC

For PvP, endurance augments for the more durable health pool in terms of the damage siphoned off with guarding. For PvE, my preference is shield augments, but you could also argue that defense would be a viable option. If you have an item with heavy absorption, keep it until you have a better alternative or mods of either shielding or defense, don't worry about power in terms of PvE.

1. I'm not going to agree that using an ammo regeneration cooldown ASAP is a bright idea considering you'd be above 66% regeneration at the beginning of the fight, and you're just wasting it. You should only use it to maintain greater than 66% ammo for the highest amount of regeneration possible, and for no other reason. 2. Not stacking defense is preference, I've never heard a complaint from healers in NiM progression due to it. I've actually respec'd into the defense talent and swapped some mods around, which is how I'm situated today, and haven't noticed much of a difference in terms of overall damage taken per second on fights such as Dash'roode NiM (1500). 3. Yes, really. I'm sorry to break it to you, but damage in PvP does expound on the potential effectiveness of your specialization in PvE, it's quite a basic concept. So considering the validity in my preference of not using the shameful ability that I could see as only beneficial to handicapped tanks who have no situational awareness, the proof is disclosed, so please refute my claim with proof that shows more effectiveness, I welcome it. The slow you miss out on is provided by high impact bolt, the threat you miss out on is supplemented by actual knowledge of your other aoes, and you don't have to be worrying about being in the complete center of the group. I don't need to analyze the tanking tree to know whether or not an ability is useful (as a note, guard cannon is spec'd into for the shoulder cannon heal and threat increase, as shown in my link). So, seriously, let's take a look at your superior statistics, and perhaps my perception of my talent distribution could be changed.

http://i.imgur.com/j2NLpiv.jpg - Standard Warzone http://imgur.com/t5pTy34 - Ranked Warzone Performed with the following specialization of 37/7/2 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGrdorR0dRRZMcMZb.3 I haven't checked this thread in a while, yet the way the class should be played hasn't been changed. Just thought I should submit this for those that still don't believe it's a credible foundation. If you can't take my word for it at this point, you, unfortunately, are oblivious.

A tad bit of refinement from my preceding set. PvE - http://imgur.com/BQFlDUj&NPDz8A1 PvP - http://imgur.com/cbxL9Ol

Section: 300k+ Protection/Damage and Damage Taken/Death Class: Vanguard Rank: 1 and 1 Name: Caroth Record: 1111087 Damage/1018325 Protection and 1027132 Damage Taken/0 Deaths Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/j2NLpiv.jpg (provided by F'Shep).

Bah, haven't been on the forums in months so hadn't noticed. Appreciated, haha.

Overall Protection Protection/Damage +300k http://imgur.com/t5pTy34

If you'd like to go off that mindset let's also make a grand generalization that all "good" or "competitive" teams LoS ranged damage dealers around the multitude of structures provided to make their contribution void. Perhaps even that all "good" or "competitive" teams spread out as soon as they see a smash specialist. The only problem with these generalizations that are a hindrance to most PvPers, is that teams fail to execute ALL of these measures simultaneously for a majority of the time. You will not be in a 1v8 scenario with all of their minds set on interrupting you, because they're focused on distributing attention among your other teammates, if they're "good" or "competitive". I've already stated and PROVEN with various recounts the undeniable benefits of actually utilizing such AoE and would rather not try to describe colors to the blind yet again. I expect people to attempt to disprove what I'm stating. That's because I haven't seen a Vanguard contribute as much output as I have, and people get touchy when they're being told they're doing something that's less efficient, even if it ultimately helps them. If you'd like to remain stagnant and never improve, only to whine on the forums about how you need to be buffed rather than adapt to what's provided, by all means, guys/gals. I'm not saying this is the "right" way, I'm saying it's a better way than the alternative, only hoping some people would take from this what they need to not be as lacking.

That opinion may be from the roots of one's bad positioning. Regardless of whether or not you face a competent team, it relies on how you are with instinctive positioning and how vulnerable you make them with stuns, or how well you take advantage of your team's provided CC. If you're standing in the middle of four enemies and expect to get a mortar volley and pulse cannon off, you'll definitely be brought down without a doubt. Which is why, if you're brought into a situation where there are more than two enemies, you start with the aoes that are more subtle from range, then converge with your more powerful AoEs using your CCs when it serves it's purpose best. I'm not saying you'll take down a group of healers and tanks by yourself, nobody can do that. The point is, your aoe is the best out there, so why waste it by tunneling on one specific person when all of those AoEs are at your disposal? The majority of my dps as a tank, ranging 700-950 most high intensity matches is due to solely AoEing at opportune times. I know without a doubt in my mind, if one were to utilize as much aoe as I do in Power/Surge gear with yet another aoe at their disposal, the dps would be dramatically high. I don't believe that aoe dps is wasted by any means. Most of the time, people scatter when there's an aoe under their feet. If they don't soak 5-8k damage from that channel, they've just wasted 2-3s of activity and/or withdrawing from aoe heals by relocating (Obviously do not refer to all classes/specs with this statement). There are more compounded effects they face when they've got aoe burst consistently on them, rather than being just another single target tunneling powertech the enemy team taunts and CCs regardless because they're within their melee range. Just what I've seen that works best in my experience.

I find this quite amusing. All I have to say to this is, unless you have some viable proof you'd like to present showing that you can actually perform more efficiently, is that you, my friend, are wrong. I never said I don't aoe and only tab, as multitasking (AoEing while selecting a target that may be of heightened priority as dps may switch targets, as much a hardship as that sounds) is not complicated. If you'd like to argue about how you tank in Hard Modes and insult others, please do with some actual, substantial credibility. If you need to rely on 5 AoE abilities to manage threat on AoE pulls rather than 2-3, your sense of positioning is lacking and needs work. If you're basing it off the prospect of lacking pugs in Hard Modes, you should consider actually pulling the groups with more thought (LoS, good Harpooning to gather all of the adds). There is no group in a HM FP that is actually difficult to gather with 2-3 AoEs if the operator himself isn't struggling with the comprehension patterns every hardmode in any game presents. I'm attempting to help those that are struggling with the class with a fortification of various sources of proof as previously presented, not clarify fundamentals of general tanking in any MMO to the other 80% that just likes to argue and never improve off of others' suggestions. The fact that you represent your flawed beliefs with a demeaning statement such as "You are a Nazi" shows you truly have nothing to prove besides the evident fact you are ignorant to the actual potential of Vanguards. From this point on, I will emphasize. If you can do better with any fragment of proof, please feel free to present it. Otherwise, either take what I have to say and better yourself, or go elsewhere.

Well, if you ever find yourself on the Jedi Covenant server, I can make both Battlemaster/War Hero sets.

Haha, well, from head to toe, Outcast Helmet, Battlemaster Eliminator's Chestpiece, Stalwart Protector's Gauntlets (Cartel), Makeb Assault Belt (Imperial Makeb Reputation), Stalwart Protector's Greaves (Cartel), and Verpine boots.

Appreciate the input. I will, however, address my stance. I don't use explosive surge because in aoe situations it just isn't viable, and doesn't provide enough output when you can rely solely on standard aoes and Pulse Generator. The 5% damage reduction is nice from that aoe, but regarding pulls with multiple mobs, you should be cycling through targets anyways, and likely using an Ion Pulse in the midst of the singling out portion of the pulls. Do note, I have used this spec for PvE and PvP purposes since launch, so in the overall grand scheme of this, it's to be most efficient in both regards. I don't rely on defense or absorption because I do believe 74% when the Energy Blast proc is up (usually always) is a decent place to keep it. I haven't found a need for defense and have not really been addressed as a "Squishy" tank from any healer by any means for my preference. I primarily stick with the defensive stat that is the enabler for a particular spec, which in this case would be shielding. Having high shielding also prompts more pulse generator procs and Stockstrike resets, allowing more consistent heavy dps and tps. The points removed from the Explosive Surge and Defense orientation prove to allow much more dps, and I can safely say there has been no issue from any player thus far with pulling threat since launch, really. But, if one prefers those talents for less damage dealt, by all means. It's never the specialization that makes the class what it is regardless, only the player. I've taken PvE and PvP aspects quite seriously since release, delving into Nightmare and other end game content, and usually do in my tanking role regarding most MMOs. Primarily, as the thread indicates, it's a "General" guide, which emphasizes on the kinks of tanking and dps that should be fundamentals. Once again though, just clarifying my beliefs with how I would play the class, I do appreciate other PoVs.

Level 55 Vanguard - http://imgur.com/cIRrLV6 http://imgur.com/rth4ikY

I didn't think of it coming into affect from the roots but that's a great idea. There'd be much more of an individual touch, that way. Honestly, it wouldn't be too confusing in MY opinion considering we're pitted against our own faction anyways. However, with the Archetype, I believe it would overstep the bounds of alignment when it comes to the sith/jedi. I could see a Consular who is dark aligned and very corrupt losing his temperament and assaulting his opponents with Force Lightning, but if it were to start at Level 1 on Tython it'd just seem wrong.

Introduction My main is a Vanguard tank known as Caroth on the Jedi Covenant Server. Throughout the two mandatory server transfers, from Juyo, Canderous, and onto this one, I have PvP'd and PvE'd through all of the content Bioware has to offer. In terms of credibility? - http://imageshack.us/f/90/5tkx.jpg/. Yes, my Rated rating is low, and that is because a year ago I truly didn't have several other frequent, cutting edge pvpers who were able to get on at the same time as everyone else. For those who may say something of the sort of "Do you even Rank, bro?" I'll say what shouldn't need to be said. Rated is all about the team, all eight (and how many FOTMs you stack, for the very "competitive" teams). Individual skill is not pronounced through how well seven other people compliment you. Now that that's out of the way! From December 2012 I have been a tank as soon as the capabilities were presented before me ( Level 14? ). At first, I'll go over the general utilities of a vanguard in PvP, as a dps and tank. Then I'll delve into PvE! Player Versus Player Since 2.0 was released, the general consensus is that Vanguard dps just isn't playable at the moment as Assault spec. People believe they need to remain the single target facerolling machine, that, if accompanied by a healer or tank, could devastate any player (provided the simple rotation isn't too complicated for them). Now, I get where that comes from, considering it was the flavor of the year, mostly. However, at this point, with the way the assault spec now functions, I believe it would be most deadly if one understood how devastating their AoE now is with the Explosive Surge dot applied to nearby targets. If one were to perform a length of abilities in say a Voidstar such as Explosive Surge in a group of four, Neural Surging, backing up, Hold the Line (Essential for AoE), and Sticky Grenade, Mortar Volley, and Pulse cannon, you've got a dead group of people. PvP is not all about how well you can sit on a healer. That AoE pressure is an immense difficulty for opposing healers, and with all of that provided AoE utility that should be the primary arsenal for Vanguards regardless of the spec (Even Commandos!). Assault spec is not behind the other classes, if you are instinctive and have good positioning, it competes with any other class out there. Just know your role as that dps and do not believe Harpooning someone off to the side to 1v1 is anywhere near as efficient as just forcing them to scatter with AoEs. Tactics is most certainly the specialization I am least experienced in, but the mechanics are easy to follow. In a warzone, your Pulse Cannon is your secret weapon in that spec. With three stacks of Pulse Generator (iirc), that is the one and only time you would WANT to be resolve capped and under the effects of Hold the Line. It's not an ability to get wasted because you're impatient. If the situation presents itself where there are multiple opposers within the same area, I do stress that you drop the silly single target rotation and unleash the Mortar Volley, Sticky Grenade, and hopefully your Pulse Cannon. This is regardless of ANY spec you choose to play. Now, as a Shield Specialist in PvP, that's where it hits home for me. For the most part, since 2.0 Vanguards and Powertechs alike have retreated from their monotonous single target burst damage as an Assault spec and thought it'd be more useful to tank. The problem is, as simple as it may seem, 95% of the tanks aren't proving effective in ANY scenario. {http://imageshack.us/f/21/jgyx.jpg/} {http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/nvm9.jpg/} {http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/uef7.jpg/}. It's obvious having healers help, but as a tank in PvP, especially as a Vanguard, there isn't much to do after using two taunts and being near someone guarded, so DPS! The amount of aoe Vanguards have is truly immense yet people never take advantage of it. That DPS you see in those links is myself as a TANK, in a full tank spec that I also use for PvP and PvE (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGrdorR0bRRZbsMZb.3) with full tanking gear (Endurance Augmented) just taking advantage of the aoes provided, along with a pretty nasty tanking single target rotation to top it. As a vanguard tank, whether you be a tactics hybrid or for the most part full shield specialist, Guarding is rather simple. Always keep someone guarded that's WITHIN your range. Do NOT leave a guard on someone who is separating from you, when there are other allies in jeopardy. With guard, it's advised not to stack right on top of the target you are guarding. Just make sure you are within the mitigation range, there's no need to be closer. If you stack, and there's intelligent dps on the opposing team, you'll be taking AoE damage on top of the splash damage. Taunting is an essential tool that is severely underused properly by tanks and even dps (Who should be using it because it's off the GCD). You receive two taunting abilities as a Vanguard. One single, one AoE. As a guard, or dps, even, you should be using those taunts wisely to cripple the enemy. In my past experience I've found it more beneficial to use Neural Jolt on ranged dpsers, while worrying about peeling with aoe and CC on Melee attackers. If there are multiple dpsers on the opposing team, try to collect them with Harpoon and utilize Sonic Round. Do NOT waste this AoE taunt on an individual, make sure it's serving it's full potential. If you're near your guarded target, and are using those taunts on the most effective opposing dps, that's all you can do when it comes to Protection, and in most cases, that's all that is needed. What's important after that is maintaining your effectiveness as the most damaging tank in the game. I've been using my full Shield Specialist spec for PvE and PvP alike since launch, and I won't ever think of changing it. Player Versus Environment I'll be brisk with Vanguard DPS in PvE. Regardless of how lacking people believe it is when it comes to dps, or how the number crunchers detest it, classes change. People complain, and they make changes, that's how it is and always will be, so don't stop playing a class because they made it less braindead easy, just adapt. Vanguard dps is best as a tactics/assault hybrid or assault itself as far as I've seen. Accuracy and Power should be your main focus for mods if you intend on the endgame PvE content, and Aim augmentations should be your focus. Whether you're Assault, Tactics, or a mix of both, the vital key to good dps is maintaining ammo. Rotating Hammer Shot into any rotation you use is essential, because you need to make sure the regeneration is above 66% at all times. If there's a necessity for burst, use your ammo regeneration cooldowns, but only if it's absolutely vital. Tanking in PvE is not a complicated art. If you are using taunts in your average rotation, you aren't efficient in dps or tps. Find a spec that works for you, providing as much protection as possible while allowing you to dish out immense damage. My specialization has worked well from launch, considering the damage enhancements that compliment my rotation. I did indeed leave out the defense talent considering as a Vanguard tank shielding is where it's at. With all of the effects that trigger off of shielding, it should be your main focus. Absorption isn't a stat to stack either, considering Vanguards have inherently high absorb with Energy Blast and relics. If it comes to Hard Mode Flashpoints, or Trash mobs in Operations, getting those AoEs off frequently makes it a breeze. I've been at the point where there really isn't a need to guard 2600+ dps in a raid because the amount of threat given off from the rotation is THAT effective. One thing I find completely crucial is Line of Sight pulls. If you see a group of three ranged mobs and five melee, that's a perfect opportunity to LoS them and reign down AoE chaos on all eight of them at once, guaranteeing maximum threat. I try to dps or heal on alts in Flashpoints and see tanks just rush in straight away, letting three adds run right by him because he's too busy Storming. Plan out your pulls, don't charge in recklessly every time. Do not take "planning it out" as sitting there for twenty seconds while everyone's good to go just thinking it through in your head. Plan out the next pull while your on the pull before hand. It gets to the point with familiarity of the capabilities of certain mobs, that you can pull off twenty minute HM runs due to the rapid stream of successful pulls. Proper specialization in talents is key in tanking. I can say personally, that I have removed Explosive Surge from my UI since 2.0, because I find it and it's talents useless as a tank. Abilities that share the same obsolete quality is Full Auto and Explosive Round. After Ord Mantell, those should not be anywhere near your frequent abilities. If I ever find a tank vanguard in a HM FP on my Gunslinger using Full Auto, Explosive Round/Surge, I also find I have aggro countless times. Whatever rotation you desire, just make sure your ammo is above 66%, or you're screwing yourself over. There's also the issue of some tanks believing that, due to the fact Vanguard have ranged tanking capabilities, that ranged abilities should be part of their rotation. NO. BAD BELIEFS. Pulse Cannon (If Procced), Stockstrike, Energy Blast (If you have it, highly recommended!), High Impact bolt, Ion Pulse, and Hammer shot should be the most popular abilities as a tank for PvE AND PvP single target!. For me, my rotation is actually in that order, yet I always rotate in Hammer shot in between abilities unless I need burst threat or dps. Guarding in PvE has had it's misconceptions with countless tanks. You do not take 50% of their damage in PvE while this is enabled and you are in range, unless it's an enemy player that is attacking. It does reduce threat, though, which, for struggling tanks, is vital IF put on the right person. Never guard healers unless there's a specific mechanic where adds come from six different sides and automatically see the healer tossing out heal threat. Even then, Guard really shouldn't be a necessity in PvE unless your rotation and knowledge of your arsenal is lacking. Conclusion Well, that's how the Vanguard cookie crumbles. I hope you found this helpful, and will help enhance your Vanguard ventures. If you have any further questions please feel free, even contact me in the game if it pleases you @ Caroth (Jedi Covenant server). With that said, take it easy, and happy hunting!

I've got an idea that I had been thinking of for quite a while. That would be the implementation of an addition to the legacy system where you could have the option to substitute an ability such as Flame Thrower (Bounty Hunter) for Pulse Cannon (Republic Trooper). Providing a requirement of advancement (Chapters 2-3) for both of the counterpart classes and overall legacy level in order to do this (Maybe just a Cartel Coin purchase?), there could be the opportunity to replace an ability for it's counterpart. This could even be possible through alignment. Wouldn't a Jedi who has decided to follow a dark path of merciless cruelty be likely to Force Choke the life out of his enemies? Certain abilities could be understandably used by both factions, regardless of the possible alignment exchange between Jedi/Sith mirrors and that's why, if this option were implemented in the future, it would likely offer a bit of variety. -Perhaps replacing Master Strike with Ravage? -*Flame Sweep replacing Explosive Surge? -Sundering Strike replacing Sundering Assault? -Maybe even the various stances of two mirror Jedi/Sith could be interchanged (Alignment)? I primarily play a Vanguard, so an option like this would personally enhance the experience, because in my opinion some visuals could be better in comparison or may just properly fit a particular character. I'm sure there are various possibilities for neutral ability substitutes where the other classes are concerned, and hope this can be taken into consideration.

DPS (PT/VG) - http://imgur.com/oIJBzXX Overall Damage (PT/VG) Overall Protection (PT/VG) 300k+ Protection/Damage (PT/VG) - http://imgur.com/LRwvIeh

Personally I don't believe having this "Individual Class" record thread be minimized to ranked is a proper way to approach it. Regardless of the current exploit shenanigans, not everyone has the luxury of several other competent, consistent players to group and coordinate in order to accomplish something in that scenario (Especially with those that have obligations and shaky schedules). Some don't need a group to give that cheerleader effect in the time they have to play, heh. If there's any question of drawn out matches, you can really just determine their legitimacy by the disparity of the other members' numbers with those who are stationary on a defensive objective throughout the match in mind. As long as there's a category for "Overall" and Damage taken to Death ratios, people will always try and boost, causing more people to domino toward the same routine. I'm fine with the circumstance of withholding updates momentarily, as long as it sticks true to individuality and not discrediting those with valid proof of legitimacy. With THAT said, once this settles down.. Updating my previous post for the following categories; Protection/Damage300k+ (Vanguard/PT) Overall Protection (Vanguard/PT) Overall Damage (Vanguard/PT) Damage Taken/Death (Vanguard/PT) http://imgur.com/shoD0oY In the interest of legitimacy, I've also included a SS with my health to ward off any possible confusion. http://imgur.com/GkL3AwA To show my disregard of these pathetic exploits, a comparison with my health on the fleet. http://imgur.com/cp69gTw By all means I'd love to wait until these exploits are weeded out as well, it's been your burden to update this anyways, Xanxas. Take your time.

Ah. In all honestly, I've never seen these exploits as an obnoxious deal, in causing a particular player to accomplish anything out of the norm. I suppose we'll find out who's truly rotten once they root it out, then. I believe I know a select group or so that I wouldn't put past doing everything they can in their spare time to get an advantage over other players that wouldn't require improving on their class. Oh, the suspense.

What exploit are you referring to?

Updating my previous post for the following categories; Protection/Damage300k+ (Vanguard/PT) Overall Protection (Vanguard/PT) Damage Taken/Death (Vanguard/PT) http://imgur.com/shoD0oY In the interest of legitimacy, I've also included a SS with my health to ward off any possible confusion. http://imgur.com/GkL3AwA To show my disregard of these pathetic exploits, a comparison with my health on the fleet. http://imgur.com/cp69gTw