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Joushigun

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Posts posted by Joushigun

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    That's part of the problem, really. I think that they have a certain expectation regarding the game and just won't think in terms of other ways to handle it. It doesn't even have to be heavy in terms of cut scenes, but we are honestly hitting a point where almost every game is identical or, conversely, they're badly engineered so that you can't really play them. For instance, I signed up to do the Beta for Elder Scrolls Online, got in, and logged right out since it's the same horrific set up that they have for the Skyrim game and I can't play it without getting sick (I complained to them about it, in fact). I've been enjoying GW2 because it seems to have a decent balance between running around slaughtering things and having a story that you can enjoy.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    There are all kinds of different orders, and BW has done it before with the Handmaiden story. They can also draw from lore and visit some of the orders that Jacen Solo visited in his journeys. The problem with these though is that since these RPGs focus so much on combat these days and we can't have just dialogue or diplomatic story choices, that we end up whiping them out. The Jedi would want to quarentine the planet if they find it of no imminent danger or destroy it if they did, the Sith would want to use the knowledge and wreak havoc.

     

    Our "Hero's" Journey also requires us to have profound and iconic influence, which mostly translates to doing lots of combat, killing mobs and taking control. If an order is too powerful so it could protect its existence, then it's a threat, if it's not got that factor then it wouldn't be of interest to our hero's journey.

     

    Personally I would like to see BioWare take different kinds of paths with their story telling, not every story has to be a hero's journey. But that seems to be the only story that they deem interesting.

     

    Part of what gets me about the gaming companies is the fact that they do a lot of getting locked into a single mindset so they think that it is the only way things are going to work when, in reality, as long as they make the game engaging and fun, they can do a lot with story lines. I'm honestly not overly impressed with the Smuggler, Agent, Inquisitor or Councilor's stories because they really aren't what plays to the strengths of what those classes should be like.

     

    The Councilor should be focused on diplomacy and dispute settling with violence being the weapon of last resort. The Inquisitor should be more of an archaeologist-type hunting for lost relics and raiding tombs. The Smuggler should be someone who smooth talks their way in and out of situations with the blaster being their weapon of last resort. The Agent should be someone who looks for secrets, seducing their way in and out of situations, and using violence only when necessary. Those show up a bit here and there, but never full force.

     

    The only four that should be about brute force are the Knight, the Warrior, the Hunter and the Trooper.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    Mmm - 'fallen Jedi shows up, creates cult of personality and the women go along with it', fine... the unspoken 'without any pre-existing cultural background for the practice and she came up with all the sorcery herself' part is where my arbitrary skepticism kicks in. Societies don't shift in a vacuum, so I expect she borrowed something to get it started.

     

    Part of what tends to get me about a lot of the stories and cultures in Star Wars is that there seems to be a lot of 'Dark Jedi showed up and. . .' I think it would behoove the lore and story a lot more to come up with different cultural traditions regarding the Force and different cultural means by which it was used or even abused.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted · Edited by Joushigun

    Yeah - particularly if the "lifting" is done also with a stereotyped and exoticised/eroticised versions of the original culture (if we keep using Disney examples, Pocahontas springs to mind) - you're going to end up with problems (consistency, depth, meaning) as well as (justifiable) anger and critique.

     

    I'm not sure if it's so much shame in European culture that might drive Western (white) authors to cultural appropriation, but perhaps a belief that it's mundane, because it's "known" and "common". Probably why, as you mentioned, Baroque is used in Anime - it's romanticised and foreign. (Though I might hesitate to put that on the same level as Western cultural appropriation - a lot of European-based practices tended to be rather... forcibly... exported and adopted, whereas the use of Native American culture tends to be far more insensitive, given the history.)

     

    As I said, I'm not always seeing things the way everyone else does so no worries. I have refused, so far, to see Pocahontas, but that's also because I know the real story behind that myth. I also hated their version of Mulan. Maxine Hong Kingston has a great version of the legend of Fa Mu Lan, which is fascinating.

     

    Anthropologically speaking, there's certain basic forms that cultures take, and if you start there, you can build up and create fascinating cultures. :)

     

    Oh, I also recently found out that 'Sith' is an alternative spelling/pronunciation for the Shee or Sidhe of the Celts. As always, the Celts are evil . . .in such adaptations.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    You reminded me of this (and also Khutulun, who gained 10,000 horses from suitors, as no man could defeat her.)

     

    However, it should be noted that Star Wars has some issues with cultural appropriation (hell, what Western fantasy doesn't?), that people should bare in mind when looking for historical and social influences when writing for the universe (which - shameless plug - mentioned here, when thinking out-loud about Mirialan tattoo and shape influence.)

     

    It is endemic of just about every sci-fi and fantasy that there is cultural appropriation involved. It is unfortunate, but I think it has to do with the fact that much of modern European culture has a great deal of shame built into it about its own cultural heritage. I mean, we aren't Roman or Greek, and yet, we appropriated much of their culture because it was "superior" to the Germanic culture, and we even created myths about how we got things like democracy from the Greeks despite the fact that the Anglos, Saxons, Celts and Vikings all had a form of democracy long before and after Athens had their little experiment with democracy.

     

    J.R.R. Tolkien stole a lot from non-English cultures, in fact. As a writer, I've found the best way is to treat such appropriation with caution, do it lightly, and with as much respect as possible. Unfortunately, Lucas has been ham-fisted with it. Then again, he's been ham-fisted with a lot of things. Like I honestly do not understand why Naboo was so Oriental in feel. In fact, it seemed to be contradictory to their planetary structure. The other thing is a lot of writers just lift from other cultures and don't have a strong background in anthropology or archaeology and do a horrible job of adapting and creating cultures based upon the environments that they have created.

     

    And I've read at least one of those analyses on Tumblr. I disagreed with it only slightly in that I believe that the problem is not so much a limitation of one particular cultural background's imagination, but the limitation of the imagination of humanity as a whole. After all, there is a lot of appropriation of Baroque and 16th/17th Century European cultural forms in Japanese fantasy and sci-fi even as there is a lot based on their own cultural heritage.

     

    Eek. I didn't mean to go on one of my little cultural lectures there ;) And as usual, this is just stuff I've noticed and thought about for some time, but I also have a very weird perspective when it comes to the world, and sometimes don't see what I'm saying in terms of offending someone because I approach cultures in terms of respect and when writing I start with the most basic forms and build using examples without lifting whole sale.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted · Edited by Joushigun

    Really? Because it sounds like you just flipped Western gender roles :D

     

    (Just wait for all the men who would whine that the above is "unfair" and "inhumane".)

     

    I based that off of a couple of cultures from the edges of China and Africa.

     

    Another one would be to base a culture around the Iroquois where women wielded all of the political power while men were resigned to hunting and warfare alone.

     

    My preference is based off of the Celtic where women and men were largely even and there exists some indications- Greek records and a few written records- that same-sex marriage was condoned along with multiple partner marriages.

     

    Of course, I'd be more than willing to write up and create an entire world where the intelligent species is hermaphroditic and finds the male form to be ugly because it looks absolutely wrong.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    The easiest way to handle this is to create a society that is on the edge of known space- say within the area that houses either Illum or Tattooine. The species there is near-human or human (preferably near-human and indigenous). This species is matriarchal because the females of the species are larger and stronger than the males- which happens in several species on Earth including hyena. Males are considered inferior because they are smaller and weaker.

     

    Rather than males being enslaved, this species expects males to be obedient towards the women in the culture, and I'm going for a literal reverse here, in fact. Same-sex attraction among males on this world is largely ignored while it is looked down upon for women to be attracted to other women. Men are expected to get married and sire children. They are also expected to raise these children, and are not expected to be highly educated. They are expected to put on displays of beauty for their female mates including make up.

     

    Believe it or not, I'm actually basing this on a couple of cultures on Earth which were highly matriarchal.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    . . .there are only two writers in Austin currently.

     

    WHAT?!

     

    Alright, I won't relocate to Austin, but so long as they don't mind doing this by, say, Skype, then can call me up and hire me to write for them. I mean, two writers? No wonder they're having problems.

     

    And I honestly believe that one of our biggest problems is the perception that people will leave in boatloads if they give us more diversity in the storyline. I doubt that since The Sims seems to do very well despite having same-sex marriage and since that is a family focused game. . .

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    I wouldn't mind BioWare doing something different for a change, and the next planet be Dathomir. The story wouldn't be so much divided by faction, as it would by gender. (Since gender seems to be so hard to remove, better make use of it then.) Landing in a matriarchy would of course be problematic with the cis het male player, het romancing would be impossible, men are slaves, if anything they are only used. Women could have all kinds of interesting romance options :D. It'd also be interesting to see a quest where you are not to win a battle, for males a great number of female witches attack with a nice enrage timer, and a quest that progresses only on defeat. Followed by a choice of submitting to the matriarchy and be subserviant or having to flee to the night brothers (what a nice little obstacle for light sided/republic characters). The night brothers would have all kinds of SGRA and SGR flirt options with Zabrak and Human NPC and a new companion ^_^. Dathomir is also interesting for its Star Temple, and the history the Gree and Rakata have there and in the SWTOR story in general.

     

    Star Trek: The Next Generation "Angel".

     

    But I love the idea of a matriarchal planet where the quest lines aren't about conquest and slaughter, but diplomacy. The choices you make in your interactions could have severe implications for your character, but for male characters, it is much more difficult to get through the questlines as you aren't trusted as readily as a woman would be; however, for a DS female character, it would be very easy to take advantage/manipulate the diplomatic threads so that things would turn out darker and more to the advantage of the player.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    That would be kind of funny, if in the Empire everyone assumes the really masculine, military, warrior type guys must be gay.

     

    Which is one of the more prevalent stereotypes out there. Masculine men who love to hang out at the gym all the time :p

     

    Oddly, growing up, I thought masculine men were all gay and feminine men were all straight ;)

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    Can we move onto a more interesting topic of conversation?

     

    It came up on tumblr, people using worn stereotypes for their characters - particularly gay men (it's tumblr, after all) - and I was wondering, what, if any, stereotypes do you think would exist in the Star Wars universe? Or more specifically, SWTOR.

     

    I should imagine that the Republic and the Empire, being separate for so long, would have very different ones, if any.

     

    Oddly enough, I wouldn't be necessarily surprised if the Empire was better about gays and lesbians than the Republic for the oddest of reasons- in many heavily militaristic societies (see Greece) lesbians and gays were not only tolerated, but even encouraged. The Empire, for all its elitism, is a heavily militaristic society. It would probably be based upon dominance, much like Hellenistic society or Roman society.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    I wouldn't mind them doing that at well. It wouldn't really fit into Star Wars lore, but they could remove white people from SWTOR entirely and I wouldn't care.

     

     

     

    Nope, if everyone agreed on everything the world would be boring. I am fully aware that there is exactly 0% chance of getting the many of the people that frequent this thread to agree with me.

     

    Actually, you do care, or you wouldn't be arguing about it on this thread. Stop trying to prevaricate your way through this argument. For crying out loud, you sound like a Monty Python sketch. Are you really that bored out of your gourd that you have to come onto this thread in order to argue time and time again over something that you don't care about?

     

    You have shifted your grounds repeatedly, ignored counter arguments. . .heck, I'm starting to think that you really are trying to act out a Monty Python skit.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    I would like to add that the reason I want SGRA's in the game is not because of equality or politics or all of that stuff- but because I like gaming and love Star Wars and want to enjoy the game as I would like to enjoy it and even love it, but apparently that's too much to ask for the Mister CisGender, Heterosexual Pants out there.

    Same gender romance discussion

    in Story and Lore

    Posted

    No. I am against content additions purely for the sake of equality, making political statements. If they find that the benefit to the game justifies the resources, they should add it. However, they should not add it for reasons not relating to making the game better.

     

    Also, I don't really care about things that were said at launch. They said a lot of stuff at launch that is still on the wall of crazy. As long as it is still on the list of things to do, they haven't broken any promises. I've been noticing a swarm of same-sex dialog options as I level through Makeb, so it is clear that they are taking at least some steps.

     

    And yet, your point about it not benefiting the game was thoroughly obliterated by me. Your original point is also invalidated because you sit here and argue that you don't want something added to the game because you don't want something added to the game. Your rationale is uninspiring at best, and weak at worst. You have been unable to back your assertions that SGRA's do not benefit the game- and refused to back them up while claiming without support that they do not benefit the game.

     

    What it comes down to is that this is your opinion and you just do not want SGRA's because you think it's about equality or a political statement despite being given a very thorough explanation of the way in which it monetarily benefits BioWare and the game.

     

    Given that all of your arguments have been stripped bare and countered one by one and you have yet to provide a decent explanation of why your position is better than ours all you leave us with is the very strong impression that you are homophobic and oppose SGRA's because of that.

     

    The problem here is that you seem to think you're going against neophytes who have never actually argued about these issues. Instead, you're dealing with people who have been countering these insipid arguments for years- decades in some cases.

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