Karandor
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Posts posted by Karandor
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Pyro's don't have good AoE. AP/Tactics are the AoE kings.
After the patch pyros are still nasty but nothing compared to what they were before the patch. The way to beat them is using any CD that increases defense chance by a considerable amount as soon as you know they're attacking you.
The problem is AP/Tactics is also really nasty now and you fight them very differently.
PTs/VGs have been the best PvP DPS in the game since releases.
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Honestly the new PvP system is much less forgiving and favors good teamwork.
I actually enjoy it as when I've played with the 2-3 people I often queue with we can really do some good stuff. Fights that would have been impossible before are now possible because we can actually kill healers.
I do think there is less room for tank specs in PvP now (well tanksin being the exception...) because as long as you have a couple taunts and some CC, guard is less important than being able to just kill the enemies before they kill you.
I think the problem people are having is you have to play the game much differently now. You can no longer stand still with someone healing you and expect to survive. You have to kite and move and CC and everything else to keep from dying horribly. I welcome the challenge.
Also the new WZ is awesome. By far my favorite.
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Is PFT even working? The Vanguard version is 100% broken and does nothing right now.
VG version damage is fine but the slow isn't working.
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The snare is even more usefull then the crit. Combat dummy != pvp.
The snare lasts 6s the DoT lasts 15s. You already have 15% increased movespeed and HO to ignore any snares and even more movespeed. I never need a snare to stay on a target.
Spamming RB for the snare is very bad for PvP damage.
I've played both specs considerably. The snare isn't worth the 8 talent points either.
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Considering you almost always get a crit when you use railshot + the snare on RC, I think not using it is a bad idea.
So maybe suboptimal AP spec would be a good name.
You have no idea what you're talking about. You THINK it's a bad idea to drop it but I've tested it and it's a bad idea to keep it. Your DPS is no higher when using it (2X FB = RB + RS) and once you hit low ammo you won't even be able to use either since you need PFT stacks.
You also can use those 8 points to get 9% aim, 4% damage debuff on FB targets, 10s less CD on electrocute and some damage reduction or other jazz.
I tested both builds a ton on a PvP dummy today and keeping the DoT going is a huge waste of GCDs and heat.
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I figured it would start causing delays around rotation 3 with the RS builds.
The good thing about the Norse rotation is it's much easier to follow the 12 second rule with some leeway to weave without having heat issues.
Just a few questions.
How long were your tests?
Did you use Explosive Fuel on and CD's on PFT?
At what point did you find you had to start managing heat during the rotation?
Did you have to use Rapid Shots at any point, if so at which juncture?
Where did you use your free RP?
Used my Free RP whenever I was missing 3+ ammo, all CDs used properly for ammo regen and conservation.
Tests went about 10 rotations of maxing DPS without trying to keep ammo high. Basically a PvP situation. A NORS build would pull farther ahead when trying to keep ammo high since you could easily use the extra space in the 12 second rule for hammer shots/rapid shots. Where as you need to keep Gut/RB going to use RS/HiB.
RB/Gut and RS/HiB are a complete waste now IMO. They do nothing but hinder PFT/PG stacking once your ammo is low in a long fight.
The only way RS/HiB will be able to be a proper fit in AP/Tactics is that they refesh the Gut/RB DoT and slow. The 2 ammo need to get the DoT to use HiB was painful once you get past 3-4 rotations where you're really going all out. Had I done longer tests the RS build would have basically ended up having the same rotation and the NORS build with low ammo.
From playing around with both builds today I have to say the NORS build seems to be the way to go. In any prolonged fight it wins due to better stacking of PFT and the fact you get to spend 8 points on other stuff.
Also make sure to use explosive surge (not sure what BH AE is called) to get stacks before a fight/keep stacks after a fight. You can run into a fight with 5 stacks blow relic/adrenal/battle awareness and just gib someone before the fight even starts.
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Servers are still down, and I still haven't been able to test the NORS Rotation vs the RS rotation. Granted I don't have a practice dummy so my practice comes when I find an elite and let Blizz tank him currently.
Anyone have any numbers yet from a Parser as to what the either build is doing?
Tried both builds on PvP dummy with full battlemaster combat tech gear and I had around 1100-1200 DPS for both builds. I included 9% aim in both builds for a better comparison and they were dead even (dropped the DR when stunned on RS build).
The problem with RS builds is after a few rotations it becomes difficult to have the ammo to use PFT/PG every 12s. The DPS for RS builds dropped faster from ammo issues than a NORS build because you don't have the ammo to both keep up PG/PFT stacks AND use gut and RS.
NORS build IMO is superior because it allows you to have those 5 stacks 24/7. The one thing RS may be good for is burst. Build 5 stacks, Gut/RB, PFT/PG, immo/FP, SS/RP, HiB/RS would be slightly better burst.
EDIT: I was fully buffed for all tests
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Awesome, I'll be able to go into he first fight with 5 stacks now, this should be amazing for bursting down my first target.
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I'm waiting until after the downtime to pass judgement on the TTK issue apparently some people were reporting that mitigation was severely bugged and DR skills and talents were not working at all last night.
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As someone who kills healers as a day job in SWToR I will say that the specs with defensive CDs are far harder to deal with than the pure heal specs. Get that instant WW, or shield stun or root on the knockback or as much instant CC as you can if you want to live in PvP right now.
Especially when I run with a guardian friend of mine and we focus fire, any healer without defensive tools will die extremely easily.
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Good healers are even more important now than they were before 1.2 as the skill gap has been widened a lot.
This patch has made the PvP much less forgiving and you have to be on your game to do well.
The difference between a good player and a bad player has simply been amplified by the changes to healing. Before the patch even a mediocre to bad healer was generally worth having on a team because they were pretty easy to play and needed 0 resource management skills. Now a bad healer is just as bad to have on your team as a bad DPS.
The skilled healers that I've played with are still awesome, some healers that I had thought were good are now failing terribly.
I think healing may have been nerfed a little bit too much but as people are still adjusting to major changes in playstyle it's better to wait than freak out after less than a day of playing 1.2.
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I'm going to try to get a full DPS test between the 2 specs (RS & non-RS) on my PvP dummy today once the servers come up.
I'll be wearing full battlemaster combat tech with no mods swapped and the only non-BM piece being the matrix shard with aim and crit.
The accuracy is a waste but is really hard to get rid of right now without losing a ton of expertise and expertise > * right now.
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Novare Coast is by far the best WZ IMO. Huttball is still awesome but VS and Civil War are very bland in comparison.
Everyone else liking it?
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Wait, people care about war hero gear?
It's a very tiny upgrade over BM. A suit of BM with maximized enhancements, yeah, tough to do, will beat a full WH set every time.
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I'm not seeing the snare on PFT / PG at 5 stacks. I just tested in a duel and my friend couldn't tell the difference. We could tell the difference on a Gut snare.
Yeah, it seems to be really buggy. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. At least on pulse cannon.
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For the vanguards out there PG stacks are still increasing mortar volley and sticky damage.
Still running the no RS spec but I am going to try the RS spec as well.
BTW is there ANY battlemaster enhancement without accuracy or alacrity on it? I have 357 accuracy because of this stupid BM set.
If not I'm totally going to swap in alacrity to see what it does for pulse cannon.
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This man speaks the truth.
Population is actually fairly balanced now with the repub re-rolls.
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I really don't care that much but it is pretty shady announcing this hours before a patch goes live.
Not very classy.
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customize UI is #1
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I am sorry, so how is this different from a pyro? I dont recall APs having any tree specific CCs.
It isn't much different from pyro. People asked how I beat them and I told them.
People are just coming on here saying doom and gloom and OMG MARAS GONNA STOMP ME when the 1 good mara spec is actually getting nerfed (no more 100% reduced damage in camo is HUGE) and AP is getting buffed and I already can beat maras.
It's like beating a marauder is such a big deal. The game isn't even 1v1 anyway a good ranged team stomps marauders all day. The problem is people **** their pants, blow all their CC at once giving the mara full resolve and 20s of immunity. The biggest difference between a good marauder and a bad marauder is the good one has support.
The only class that really scares me in PvP right now is pyro/assault spec PTs/VGs.
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so what is then
cuz i thought rp(assuming you mean rocket punch)was kinda one of the main skills in the rotation i saw for ap
but i dont know,i kinda take sithwarriors guide with a grain of salt since apparently they dont know how to make a rotation list without putting the same abilities twice
iron fist looks kinda fun though from videos i watched so i dont know,i might end up tryin it if its still viable in 1.2
None of the set bonuses are that big a deal for tactics. 15% crit on RP is nice but it doesn't make or break the spec like 15% on RS for pyros.
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I do get mildly confused on the "I'm AP I always beat Mara/Sents" I read.
One of the benefits Pyro has is you can kite them. AP, especially now, gives you 0 luxury in that (As H.O is all that's available to keep any range for a small amount of time).
So you just stand there and let the terrible ones beat on you and hope you out dps them?
Not trying to sound like an ***, just a bit confused on the strategy being used here as AP.
With CC you can out DPS them by a large margin. With HO you can kite them. If they blow their CC breaker early on your AE stun you can hit them with the 4s stun when they get low and burst them before they can use the 99% damage reduction. With your fast move speed you should be able to kite them and circle strafe.
You do not go in to use RB or RP against a mara (unless stunned) and actually only use RP for burst after a PFT. You should only use RB against a stealther anyway, it's a wasted GCD otherwise.
If you can pull them before they leap it's also a big advantage to deny them some resources and prevent a free hit.
Basically IP/FBX5 while kiting with HO/HtL, AE stun, relics and adrenals and battle awareness, PFT/PG, CG/electrocute, RP/SS, Immolate/FP. If they don't break the AE stun save your 4s stun for their 99% DR. If they break the first stun your RP/SS + immolate/FP combo should kill them before they get to use their 99%DR.
Will all your CD running PFT + immolate + RP can hit over 14k damage. 12-13k will be normal.
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I really don't see how. Marauders have considerably more dps. As well as much better defensive cool downs...and more of them, and crappy self heals. Equally geared I don't see AP beating much one on one. Fire Pulse needs a cool down reduction.
They don't have more DPS and AP has way better burst. I beat mara's 1v1 all the time. It's often close but with good use of CC I generally don't have too much trouble.
The problem is people think that using RB and RS as AP is a good idea when it's really lowering your burst in PvP. Take the 8 points out of anything to do with RS and RB and put them in 9% aim, 4% reduced damage on IP/FB targets, 10s reduced CD on cryo grenade/electrocute and you will have better performance.
This has been argued to death in the 3 days as AP thread though so go there for a full lesson.
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I got my full elim about 2 weeks ago and haven't had a BM comm since. I am have serious bad luck lately.
Honestly the 15% crit on RP is not a big deal for AP spec. Sure it hits hard but it is not the main focus of the build like it is with Ironfist.
Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.
in PvP
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Tanksin burst is terrible. Their CC is decent but not amazing. The problem is people are dumb and blow CDs on force shroud. The assassin then resists all their good stuff and they get pwnd. Tanksins are on my kill list after everything but tank spec juggs.
Their schtick is defending points solo until help arrives. In big fights their DPS looks nice but a ton of it is fairly ineffectual AE damage with wither (thought the debuff is great). A tank spec (hopefully Iron Fist) PT has WAY more control and is much better at shutting down a healer. Good healers will not die to a tanksin, even after 1.2.
Overall what you want, however, is 1 or 2 tanksins for defence, a couple of healers and a crapton of awesome DPS to tear through the enemy at breakneck speed.
Right now good healers and good DPS are what win WZs not tanksins.