I wouldn't support taking it away for exactly this reason... but I see no reason why there can't be an equally As Happy Ever After As You Get In The Middle Of Intergalactic War ending that doesn't involve kids. Provide both. Not everyone has the same fantasy and not all wishes are fulfilled in the same way. And as you say, the PCs aren't necessarily 'normal'.

One reason why, yes. It's a *****ly issue. EDIT: Okay, what. P r i c k l y is apparently obscene too.

See, I was the same. I was working my way through some of the story content and when it became clear I wasn't going to be able to pursue the relationship options I wanted to I actually sent customer care a bug report. >.> Naive of me? Perhaps, but I was THAT surprised. Then I belatedly found out it wasn't a bug and here I am.

Yeah, I thought that was a little overzealous of the profanity filter, too. Still, I guess some people might take offence at said word. I assume that'll happen. I mean, there's a lot of debate as to whether the current companions will get altered or if same-sex content will be new-companions only; personally I don't see a lot of reason to not change the existing companions. We're fond of them, they're well-written and changing a few pronouns here are there would make the romance lines unisex quite neatly. Bioware's being very quiet (read: silent) about it all, though, so we can only speculate. I hope we get same sex content for the existing companions. It'd be a shame to miss out on that - or, rather, to keep missing out on it.

Well, as Bioware has stated same sex content is coming and the point of the thread isn't to decide where in the priority queue the content goes, do you have any thoughts on how you'd like to see it implemented when it eventually is?

Here's a question that might raise a few eyebrows. Opposite gender romances can end in marriage. That seems to be the normal result if you romance a companion All The Way (baby). What about same sex relationships? Should they be phrased differently (life-partners, mates, whatever) or should the people involved actually get married? For my own part I'm not fussed either way. Marriage, partnership, whatever - if the people in question love one another I think the rest is window-dressing. But others might have different opinions.

I very much like the idea of all flirts, irrespective of gender, taking place on the left hand side of the dialogue wheel. Currently in most conversations we've got a positive, negative and neutral response happening on the right side (this is a generalisation, but I think it's fair to say). When you get the (exclusively heterosexual) option to flirt it's usually the neutral one that's replaced; sometimes it's more than just the one. If those three responses were preserved for all players, and flirt responses happened exclusively on the left hand side of the wheel irrespective of the character's gender, nobody misses out on possible responses. In fact, the total number of responses increases (very slightly).

I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I think the post was in relation to someone being nasty and got wiped. The problem with people comparing the game to books and movies is that the form of writing you find in those mediums is passive storytelling. You're sitting down and everything within the story is already determined. So the writing of each character needs to be fixed. The more fixed detail the writer puts in (traits, idiosyncrasies, and so on) the more believable the character is. The viewer will put their own spin and interpretation over some of the events and motivations that the storyteller hasn't disclosed, but that'ss just human nature. Active storytelling, on the other hand, is telling a story ourselves, making something up from whole cloth (for the most part; it might be based on someone's world but the bulk of the significant action is still decided solely by the person telling the story). TOR isn't passive or active storytelling. It's interactive storytelling. We're not just being told a story, we're being invited in to help tell it, so there needs to be a fair amount of flexibility to both events and characters in order for us to have a significant and satisfying impact on the areas of the story we care about. If the sexuality of our companion characters remains (for the most part) undetermined until we encounter events in the game which allow us input then that simply enriches the interactive storytelling experience. The rules for how events and characters are written need to be different for interactive storytelling. Applying passive storytelling rules to interactive storytelling just ends with people saying, 'Why can't I romance Mako/Corso/Dorne/Blizz?' and over 150 pages of posts that have successfully not been mod-hammered into non-existence. The more I think on it, the more hero-sexuality makes the most sense.

So do we. And including same sex content is the way to do that. Currently the options you have aren't the same for us. We want the same courtesy you currently have. I don't see any issue with the conversational options being brought to an even level across the board.

I'd presume people are. However that is presumption because Bioware hasn't actually told us if it's being actively worked on or delayed for other reasons. They haven't told us anything much, so remaining vocal (but polite, preferably) is about all we can do.

I think I definitely need to update my list of preferred same-sex content implementation to include the matter of flirts being an extra option in addition to the standard three, irrespective of gender. It's a great idea. Nobody misses out on social non-flirt options, very equitable.

They might have. Like I said, I could be wrong. Certainly not. A lot of people love PvP. I despise it but I still think PvPers should be able to voice their opinions as to what they want and in the end I hope they get something that satisfies them (for however long it does). I only ask the same courtesy in regards to story-driven content, and in particular same-sex content. Why? Because it's part of what I enjoy - just like PvP is part of what a PvPer enjoys.

For my part the main point of contention isn't when it's going in, but that we've had no contact from Bioware about it.

No, a lot of people have expressed frustration that it's not in yet. But I do indeed deny that it's the point of this thread to define where in Bioware's list of priorities same-sex content should go. Plus, I don't recall (and I may be wrong) anyone saying this content definitely should have higher priority than anything else. The replies to your comments, even now, are mostly asking why it should come last, not claiming it should come first.

Considering how big the game is and the incredible scope for potential, I can imagine the writers are very, very busy.

This is both on-topic and constructive. I agree it should be done well. Unfortunately people tend not to be able to agree on how that should be, precisely. Frankly I'm quite willing to wait a while for good content, as long as I know that we're being heard. The development team hasn't seen fit to talk to us about it, though, so remaining vocal is the only thing we can do.

Maybe they just want to surprise us. More likely they can't agree on how to do it. It's all supposition until they talk to us, in any case.

Mm, I like that idea. Three generic responses at all times, one (or two, depending on circumstance) flirts on the left side of the dialogue wheel. That sounds fair.

I've seen this argument before and I really don't understand it. I'll use my JK as a case in point. At a certain point you get the option to flirt with Kira (and gain a DS point). My JK is female, so the option I got in its place was to show affection without it being a flirt. Chances are very high that the options you're getting instead of a flirt are pretty much the same with slightly different wording and without the flirt mechanism attached. Claiming less choice to a group of people who currently have no choice is not an argument that's likely to hold much weight, sorry. You're talking about maybe 1% or 2% of total dialogue options. In the vast majority of conversations you'll have a flirt option won't even be available. But you are complaining that you might perceivably have fractionally less choice, when the people you're voicing this to have none. That's like telling a starving man you don't want to miss out on one less roast potato in your Sunday dinner.

We-ell, that's a sore point, isn't it? It is for me, anyway. We don't know if the discussion is pointless because Bioware is refusing to give us information on what's already planned. This whole thread might be pointless; then again this whole thread might be of utmost value, because the developers might b paying very close attention to it. We just don't know. And a little communication on the matter really could clarify whether we're all wasting our time here or not. Considering the clear fact that other content, which does need fixing, is already being given priority over this matter I don't see any reason they shouldn't spend some money on developing it. A lot of us are already fond of the existing characters and it's not going to suddenly take those characters away from the people who have them in opposite-sex relationships. <shrugs> Don't know what to suggest there. You're right, there is no indication that it's any different. But on the same note there's also no indication that it's not, and claiming otherwise on that point is, likewise, a huge exaggeration. There's no hints, really, either way. We only know that same sex relationships haven't had a huge part in Star Wars lore and canon to this point. For my own part, I'd point out that it's a huge galaxy. Within it are billions of stars and millions of theoretically habitable worlds, space stations and so on. Given the diversity of cultures that we know can exist on one planet I think that it's fair to say that in Star Wars there would be uncountable numbers of cultures and sub-cultures. Coruscant alone could be host to hundreds of thousands of regions each with their own cultural idiosyncrasies. Even just on the basis of sheer mathematical probability it's highly likely that on that one capital planet alone there'll be some groups that accept same sex relations and others that reject it. When you multiply that by the number of theoretically inhabitable worlds the statistical likelihood is very high that we'd encounter same sex friendly cultures and also extremely homophobic ones. How Bioware wishes to implement that, well, that's a different matter entirely - and one that they're being very close-lipped about. Above all I want more details from Bioware as to what directions they're leaning in. Otherwise we're really all just shouting into a storm.

Hero-sexual is the way to go. It solves so very much in one swoop*. The VO lines, well, I can imagine that a bit of creative seamless editing would fix whatever needs to be fixed - though most of the lines don't seem to need that much tinkering. * = Even if swooping IS bad.

Well, that's a fair point. I'd still argue it's not our society, we simply view it through our own societal lens. Personally I could see very clear justification to make some societies in Star Wars a great deal more tolerant of non-hetero sexualities than others.

For the most part Corso and Aric, as I've seen, don't start conversation 'in that manner' unless you've already started expressing interest in them. Even if they do, not picking [Flirt] options solves the problem. A toggle is unnecessary.

It's not a matter of whether it's a restriction of sale or not. The very advisory itself implies that the game is not intended for people under a certain age. It's not Bioware's job to raise children. It's their parents' job. And if they wish to deny their child a computer game because it has content they don't agree with I fully support them doing so. That's their call. It SHOULD be their call. It's not Bioware's call. Limiting the content of a game designed for people who aren't kids just in case kids get a hold of it is a circular argument. By that logic all games everywhere should be so child-friendly that they contain no violence, no gore, no dramatic scenes of tension, no romance of ANY description and no plot devices that might confuse a child's mind. However a given country handles its censorship, this game is not intended for little kids, and the content reflects that.