Aluvi
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Posts posted by Aluvi
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Aim for 105% in PvP and 110% in PvE. With full Advanced WZ gear properly itemized you should be at just about 105% acc exactly.
Go for the power / crit ear and implants - you'll be tearing out one or two accuracy enhancements in favor of crit as it is, so no point getting more on ears. I don't think alacrity is worth getting, but I haven't experimented with it heavily yet.
Word to the wise: Maras got a big nerf with 4.0 on Carnage / Fury. 20% surge reduction in those specs.
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Sorcs and PTs but something is going on with Maras too. There's an unusually large amount of them running around again.
We were given hope with the changes to crit and surge. Had we not gotten a 20% flat nerf to our surge, we would be viable again in both Fury and Carnage, however, BioWare is still too afraid of making another "smash monster", so one of the worst performing classes in the game got a 20% surge nerf.
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You and I have different memories of this game. DPS Sins are only recently good...for the first two years of the game they were crap, and Hatred (then Madness) was one of the absolute worst specs in the game for pvp in any form. Annihilation Marauder, at that time, shared the top dog dueling spot with Darkness Shadows.
Im talking about hybrid specced old school sins that had the best 1v1 utility in the game. Really though, all that mattered with a sin in terms of dueling is that they could vanish, sap you, and heal to full. Sap should heal the target being sapped. Would fix that particular problem.
I didn't play sins enough back then to claim that I have any true understanding of them, but the "dark maul" spec simply wrecked in duels. If you made the condition of "no sapping / heal to full" in the duels, or if you somehow popped them out of stealth before they could sap, you might win, otherwise it was clearly going to the sin.
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I was clarifying that earlier. There is a 1.5 second channel, but it only lasts for the global and is done on the move. So in essence, it is exactly the same as other stuns. I think his confusion came from the fact that there was a mini channel.
The important distinction is that you can interrupt a Force Choke, and if it is interrupted before the full duration completes, the person who is being stunned is let out of the stun. Not only that, but it builds the full amount of resolve that a 4 second stun would, even if it is interrupted.
The idea behind force choke was that, although it was a 4 second channeled ability, it did decent damage, it built free rage, and in the case of Rage spec, it gave smash stacks. It also is just an awesome cool looking iconic star wars ability.
In it's current form, it's basically just an "almost" instant cast hard stun. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it lasts the length of a GCD. The only disadvantage is if you get stunned, knocked back, or otherwise interrupted while choking. The damage it does is negligible.
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Not an infiltrator, only 60 I have is this guy, I am just not the best marauder out there, and it will take me some time to transition from a Rogue in WoW to this.
You should have rolled an assassin. That is much much closer to the play style of a rogue from wow. Marauders are like a watered down, neutered fury warrior right now.
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I can reliably do it with only 2 or 3 pieces of alacrity gear (pvp geared). I get around 5.x% alacrity. The margin for error is small.
Interestingly, you can actually fit Vicious Throw > Ravage > Devastating blast into a gore window if you do it JUST right, and I mean perfect. You have to Vicious Throw a split second before you actually gore. Of course, it screws up your next gore window rotation, but if you wanted to ensure some burst and you knew that you wouldn't be interrupted during it... just a thought =).
It isn't something to where you can really just sit there and watch your ravage channel bar to clip it at the proper time. You just have to practice it and kind of "know".
I think BioWare greatly over-estimated the amount of alacrity people would stack and how it would affect their rotations and dps.
What would be vastly superior to Devastating Blast would be an ability like Furious Strike, that hits incredibly fast after the button is pressed.
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To be fair, marauders have NEVER been top duelists. Not even in their absolute smash prime. Operatives and Sins have always been better, and PTs were always on par.
Back when Maras were considered "OP", we still couldn't beat a good operative, sniper, PT (eh, I\ll call the PT a draw actually), or sin. We could reliably beat a jugg if they didn't have intercede targets, and you could usually beat a sorc, although.. a good sorc could basically just run away. I mean they wouldn't kill you, and it would effectively remove them from the fight, but you also wouldn't kill them.
Before Sin dot spread, they were still the most lethal 1v1 class around. The only class that came even remotely close was a hybrid specced operative.
Yet, because the most popular pvp content was 8v8 normal and ranked warzones (read: team games with trinity comps), marauders had a place. Not because they were top duelists, but because they put out great dps and pressure, they were fairly sturdy and hard to kill, and they provided some utility. Even with ranked arenas coming out, they still had a place in the predominantly trinity comp 4v4 ranked games.
So what I'm driving at here is this: don't feel bad for losing a duel on your mara / sent. At the BEST of times, they were mediocre duelers, and lost as much as they won, skill and cooldown usage being equal. Right now, just about every class is better than them in a 1v1 scenario. That doesn't mean that I'm happy with the current hierarchy of pvp OPness right now in SWTOR, but I also don't think that losing a duel on your mara is cause for alarm.
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The "rotation" for carnage is to use Ravage / MS every other gore/precision window. In practice it doesn't always work out that way, and damage wise you are far better off using Dispatch + Clashing Blast. The nice thing about Ravage is that it's free. Doesn't cost any Rage.
Also a side note.. if you line it up perfect, assuming you have about 5% total alacrity + you use berserk, you can do the following combo:
Dispatch > Precision > MS > Clashing Blast. You can JUST barely fit it all in with some alacrity. Of course, it screws over your next rotation, but it's a LOT of damage. You have to use Dispatch about 1/3 of a second before you use Precision Strike.
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If you wanna "git gud" at mara / sent let me know, ill help you out. I need a new apprentice.
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/who canyon orbital mesa square 60
^ that will tell you if there is anyone in the possible ranked maps. Granted, it could just be regs too, but if you get ot know the people that solo q you can usually pick them out, and of course, you can just ask one of them if its ranked.
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...Until they find a way to monetize it.
Even then I kind of doubt it. You need to level up a character to learn it. Switching from Sorc to Assassin or Pyrotech to Mercenary would just be too weird. They really do play like entirely different classes with a couple of similar abilities.
Warrior is probably the closest mirror. Both melee, and their "shared" spec (previously rage for both, now Fury for mara and Rage for jugg) is very very similar. But if only warrior could do it, it wouldn't be fair.
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thank you for your advices and your time i really appreciate it and will try to improve those things you mentioned but i didnt understand what did you mean by this
"I saw some back pedaling. Not a ton, but it shouldn't happen ever. Strafe away always.":confused:
The "S" key on your keyboard. Pretend it doesn't exist. When you use the S key to go backwards, you move at a greatly reduced speed. There wasn't a ton of this, but I did see a little bit. Strafing is when you either use a button to walk sideways or you hold down the right mouse button and press A / D to move sideways. Stafing to position is always preferred.
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And now the fun bit: how long did you read this thread before you realize it was made two years ago?
This crap needs to stop lol. I dont want to have to read EVERY damn thread date. Time to go necro some of my 4 year old posts.
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Agreed, Fury is more self sufficient and forgiving, but Carnage *can* be more devastating, and that's the catch.
Carnage is a hell of a lot more fun in regs, so it's got that going for it.
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hello im new in pvp if you can point out my bad plays i will be appreciate.Thanks for watching
You said this in your YouTube video description, so OK, here goes: prepare to be eviscerated by text.
Where to start... rotation / priorities are all wrong.
Opening rotation should be: Berserk > Force Charge > Battering Assault > Massacre (to proc stuff if it didn't already proc) > Vicious Throw / Gore > Force Scream (Blast when you get it later) > Massacre > Filler until your Gore is up again (massacre, Battering Assault, Assault if needed, you want close to full rage at all times) > Gore / Ravage > Force Scream > Filler until Gore is up, then go into Vicious Throw / Gore > Force Scream again. The cycle repeats.
So basically, in Carnage we have two different "combos". First combo is Vicious Throw / Gore > Devastating Blast (Force Scream). Second combo is Gore / Ravage > Blast (scream). Making sure that you have ample Rage to be able to utilize your Gore windows effectively is half the battle.
In this video I basically saw you using Vicious Throw and Force Scream.. when they procced. Sometimes with Gore, sometimes not. This is wrong. You can use UNPROCCED Vicious Throw due to someone being below 30% health at any time and that is never a problem (in fact, unprocced Vicious Throw should be your #1 filler ability), but you almost always want to save procced Vicious Throw for your Gore Window.
At 1:21 you Obfuscate a Vanguard (already a very poor choice for Obfuscate considering that the only thing that they might miss on is Rail Shot) at 11% health.
At about 4:20 you use Gore when the closest opponent is about 60 yards away. Right before that you used Ravage with no Gore.
At 5:40 you build your 30th stack of Fury. You hold it - not using it for either Berserk or Bloodthirst, until the 8 minute mark. At 7:51 you come within 1 second of actually losing the 30 stack while stunned (that you held for the full duration while sitting in the spawner), but you manage to keep it up, through sheer dumb luck. There were multiple gore windows you could have used it for. It is almost never a good idea to "hold" a berserk. Even for the absolute most pro marauders / sents, it's always debatable. For someone at your level, you should never hold it. Use it as soon as it comes up. This was just clear negligence though. 2 minutes and 40 seconds of holding a 30 stack of fury for no reason.
At about 5:50 you use a Gore and don't have enough Rage to utilize any abilities with it. you are also holding a Berserk for a long time.
At 8:10 you use Vicious throw a split second before Gore and then use Force Scream. Good job, this is optimal!
At 9:15 you jump in with no Rage and immediately Gore. You always want to Battering Assault > Massacre > then go into Gore / Ravage > Scream or Vicious Throw / Gore > Scream.
At 9:21 you use Vicious Throw (procced) without a Gore, when Gore is actually up.
9:58 lolnope. Good try though. I've done that too. It doesn't always work out, but when it does, it's glorious.
At 10:15 you run across the bridge to go attack the enemy team (you vs half of their team). Crossing the bridge while on Defense in Voidstar is never a good idea. Your job is to defend the doors. If you kill someone that close to their spawn area, they will just immediately respawn and kill you anyway. You're only doing them a favor. You also run a high risk of getting booted off and then having to sit in the spawner for a while.
At 11:53 you build another 30 stack of Fury. You hold it until 12:40, and I'm quite certain that the only reason you realized that you should use it is because you got stunned right before that, and it was the only ability that was "lit up" on your action bars.
12:10 - more Vicious Throw / ability usage without Gore when Gore is up. You could have Berserk > Vicious Throw / Gore > Screamed > Massacred all within the Gore window for massive damage.
13:09 - ^See above.
13:11 - Ravage without Gore. Gore was up. Scream would not have been off cooldown in time due to you using it out of the gore window / too late earlier, but at the very least your Ravage could have been used.
13:39 - The moment of truth! OK! This is it! You have Gore off cooldown. Force Scream AND Vicious Throw are procced and ready to go! Your opponent has their back to you and is ignoring you. Let's do this - oh. You use Gore with Battering Assault (the second worse ability to use during a Gore window), which is not only bad because it does low damage, but also because you were already at 7+ Rage, which is a total waste. To your credit, you did follow it up with a Vicious Throw.
13:55 - Gore with unprocced Force Scream and a Procced Vicious Throw. Well.. it was almost good! Massacre first next time before the Gore to ensure that Scream is procced.
14:07 - Force Scream without Gore. They came off cooldown together, and your Ravage was off cooldown. This would be the part where you Gore / Ravage > Force Scream.
I'm sure there were more rotational / priority ability mistakes that I missed, but I'm not watching it a second time.
I didn't see a single interrupt used by you. Granted, most of the enemy team was non caster, but you had several opportunities to interrupt the commando that was casting various things (Gravity Round, Unload, etc). Your interrupt is not only for heals!
Some general things - I saw some back pedaling. Not a ton, but it shouldn't happen ever. Strafe away always.
Constructive Criticism & Tips
This is what I want you to work on:
-USE BERSERK! USE IT! USE. IT. UP. It's better to use it outside of a Gore window than holding it for god knows how long. Delaying it more than 1 or 2 GCDs and you're just losing DPS.
-You have TWO Gore Window combos. Rotate between them. Always. The ONLY time your Gore window ability usage should not be perfect is when you are stunned right after using Gore. Your Gore windows are: Vicious Throw > Devastating Blast OR Ravage > Devastating Blast. IF you have a berserk up, you can fit Vicious Throw > Devastating Blast > and Massacre all into one Gore window. Work on having perfect Gore windows! Spend some time on the dummy perfecting this.
I should really be charging for this.
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Still love Carnage / Combat. Carnage especially due to better animations on Massacre. It's probably not as good as Fury, but I just love the fast paced nature of it.
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Yes, its very easy to kill us. Neither it is our job to facetank ppl. Neither are we the worst, mercs are in much worse place (maybe its hard for you to imagine, but believe me). Good players still can survive long and do good damage, but it takes practice and discipline.
...and pocket heals. Don't forget the pocket heals.
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Yeah, happens with Force Push, and sin's mezz as well.
Yep, and sorc bubble mez. Ill have taken direct damage 1-2 seconds ago and still be mezzed. Force Push has you rubber banding back to the spot like 5 times, and if you use your CC breaker on it, you literally can't go anywhere and it does absolutely nothing. Not that you should ever use your CC breaker on force push, but just saying.
I sincerely doubt it's going to ever be fixed, as it's likely a flaw with the engine as a whole.
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im not trying to troll and i think the point is being missed...
these 3 classes do amazing single target dmg on their own... the execute ability for sure isnt needed to keep their numbers up but when critting basically assures a killing blow... so in theory we're all rolling around with 80% hp
the simple point im trying to get across is that these classes dont need executes... their burst is mighty fine without it and 9k executes are ridiculous
anyone who PLAYS one of these 3 classes cant really complain... can u sit there and say your class would be WEAK without it? no...
OK, lets do it! But first, I want to remove dot spread from the game, because that does far more damage than execute ever will. Also, we should remove Tactical Surge, because it can do 14-16K. Also that one sniper ability that crits hard sometimes. I guess while we are here we should also remove Raging Burst (10K auto crit), Furious Strike (auto crit once per min for 10-11K), Devastating Blast, Rail Shot, and pretty much every ability in the Deception tree for Assassins.
From now on, everyone will just attack with single target dots or "filler" type attacks.
OK, now seriously, do you see how stupid this sounds? OP, I'm going to guess that you're a sorc. I'm also going to guess that you are a keyboard turning, ability clicking, force speed s-keying, face tanking bad. Because only someone who stands there as a sorc with a million different kiting, rooting, slowing, stunning, and other disabling abilities, and takes lightsabers to their face, would honestly think that execute needs nerfed.
Further, it's an integral part of the rotation for some of the specs on those classes.
This is either epic trolling or epic ignorance.
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Every single class/spec has a base 5% melee and ranged dodge (consular/inquisitor actually have 10%). Some classes/specs have talents that increase that, but just for the sake of math, lets assume they all have 5%.
Melee and ranged accuracy at base, starts at 90%, not 100% like tech and force attacks.
There are 3 specs that currently do not rely on melee or ranged attacks:
Balance sage, telekinetics sage, scrapper scoundrel.
All other classes/specs have major moves that are either melee or ranged.
How is this gap closed for pvp? Does it mean that every single class/spec besides those three are required to obtain accuracy and thus lose out on other dps enhancing stats like surge/crit/power, etc?
For instance, is a sharpshooter gunslinger going full accuracy and thus losing out on extra damage, or are people just accepting the 15% miss chance?
Everyone gets this wrong about SWTOR. It's not "melee vs force and tech attacks". So, there are two types of "attacks" in regards to accuracy: Basic and non basic. Basic attack is your free, spammable attack that you get at level 1. For marauders, it's assault. Basically, this is the #1 ability on your action bar no matterw hat class you start with.
Your BASIC attack (your spammable costs nothing does little damage attack) starts at 90% accuracy. ALL OTHER attacks start at 100% accuracy.
OK, now that we have that out of the way, now we have different classifications for types of attacks. So for instance, I believe "white damage" is considered melee or ranged - should do kinetic / physical type damage. Yellow damage is either Tech or Force. Here's where it gets interesting: Yellow damage (tech / force) can't be dodged. It can be resisted, absorbed, or otherwise mitigated, but it can't be dodged / parried. White damage on the other hand (kinetic type damage), can be dodged / parried.
To give you an example: let's say an operative has their evasion up (big green transparent sphere around them), which increases their dodge chance significantly. You will want to try to do Tech / Force based damage to them while they have that up, OR, you can stun them. Stunned characters cannot dodge / parry. Same thing goes for an Assassin that has Deflection up. Usually can't stun sins though, since they have a super OP utility that make them immune while Deflection is up, but that's another topic for debate.
So, what does all of this mean for you as a PvPer?
Well, first off, if you are a dps anything but a Sorc/Sage, you should get 5% accuracy from gear. This puts you at 105% on your NON basic attacks (which is all that matters, no one cares if your basic attacks miss now and then, the stats are better spent elsewhere). Sorc/Sage dps operates on the "resist" system. There are some classes that can get some resistance to force attacks (or maybe it's just elemental resistance), but it's not worth having accuracy for them.
Finally, you asked about whether or not it was OP for sorcs to have extra stats due to not needing any accuracy. Yes, it is to a small degree. Assuming proper gearing with a sorc, you would stack Surge up to 70%, and then do alacrity. I do the same thing with my Mara / Sent gear as well. The difference is, Sorc can get considerably higher Alacrity due to not needing any Accuracy. It isn't game breaking though. We are talking about 5% accuracy. I think, were that translated into Alacrity, you might get 2-3%.
The odd thing is, Sorcs still need accuracy in PvE, just like anyone else to do optimal dps. It's especially horrible when their dot misses. I don't think this was necessarily intentional by BioWare, but, it's been that way for a long time, so it's kind of one of those "it is what it is" things.
No one should ever stack more than 5% accuracy (which I believe comes to be 2-3 pieces, or 2 pieces + an implant). Some people choose to run with no accuracy. I believe this is a mistake, especially as a sniperor marauder, as so much of our damage is white damage. There's nothing more frustrating than using a Vicious Throw on a Sorc with 5% HP and having it get parried. I honestly don't feel like Sorcs should be able to parry at all. Assassins yes, obviously, but not sorcs.
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i know, personally i think my gear is good for pvp even though its pve but some guy was flaming me for not having pvp gear
nice troll.
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Ill group with you any time for regs, but ranked 4s.. needs to be the absolute best composition with the absolute best players to stand any chance at all. Otherwise you're just going to get farmed by Death Smile. There isn't a big enough pool of players for anything but that.
There are a LOT of guilds on this server that think they are pretty amazing when it comes to PvP. I'd like to see some organized ranked 4s to see if they really are as good as they think they are (talking about the transfers over here).
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The problem with top end PvPers is how incredibly cliquey they are. There are players on our server that won't play with me / refuse to speak with me in voice chat simply because at one time we were rivals.
You know, we tell new players "get gud" and "find friends", but it can be difficult. It's very hard to "shine" in a pug warzone, enough that a guild of the best of the best players will take notice and give you a chance to play with them. I wouldn't mind taking some above average players and training them to be elite pvpers. At this point thats the only way I'll find a group to do ranked with.
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I know that it sucks to lose like that, but its also an incredible feeling of victory. Thats one reason I like Novarre so much. And its just a pretty balanced map, overall.
So let's talk fury post 4.0
in Sentinel / Marauder
Posted
You'll be lucky to see half that much in practice though, due to time on target, deaths, downtime, etc. Meanwhile Madness Sorcs have already actually hit 6k dps with 1k+ healing at the same time in unoptimized gear and non ideal conditions.
Powertechs push more burst by far and better overall dps.
Carnage got the same nerf that Fury did - 20% less surge. I highly doubt marauder will be at all competitive in 4.0 PvP with the current meta. Sorcs got a massive buff with their new ability, and PTs remain as strong as always. I'm going to predcit a solid 50% of the top 100 solo ranked players are sorcs, and you're going to see nothing but sorcs topping the meters in warzones for damage, kills, and heals. I believe 7K, hell maybe even 8K healing is going to be possible.
The fact is, the developers are just blind. Absolutely blind. Had they left our surge on Carnage / Fury alone, we might be in a mediocre position for PvP and PvE in this patch. As is, with the nerfs, we will be a melee class that does far less sustained damage than any other class, lacks the burst of a sniper or PT, and has mediocre defensive abilities at best.
Those nerfs compound on top of all the other nerfs throughout the 3.0 history - Ravage damage loss, interrupt on a longer cooldown, Bloodthirst no longer usable in arena, generally screwed over the Carnage spec by forcing us to take utilites that were baseline before.
Yeah, we got a few things in compensation, but it's not enough. At this point I've lost all hope in the developers ability to create anything even remotely close to class balance in this game. It's going to be 50% sorc, ~35% PT, and 15% spread out between all the other classes, with marauders at the very bottom, when it comes to solo ranked (the only relevant measure of PvP that we have left since no one does 4s anymore).
The combat changes were also extremely lazy. Nothing really changed in any of the specs, and that would be OK if they were anywhere near balanced in in the 3.x era, but they never were. We suffered an entire expansion of being utter and complete dog crap, and it looks like the 4.x era will be no different.
I'm playing until Battlefront comes out, after that, I doubt I'll ever bother with this game again.