[VIDEO] Let me explain how SORCS/SAGES actually work for you.

[Caeliux]

See, lying about your 2800 arena rating and then giving no way to prove it is just sad.

 

Keep using the word derp though. It makes you look smart.

 

I play a Subtlety rogue on Korgath, and play arena everyday, 4.3 patch just made my class alot better and now am trying for a 2800 with my best friend.

 

 

See the enlarged word I did there ^^ TRYING

 

You are smoking something, learn to read.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Caeliux

[hoylejeremy]

She the enlarged word I did there ^^ TRYING

 

You are smoking something, learn to read.

 

So I'm guessing you are 1800 going for 2800?

 

 

Either way, without any proof of anything, you are obviously lying. I don't know why either. You don't sound legitimate either way.

[goldenarmz]

What have you been smoking? This game IS WoW with lightsabers if you haven't noticed. And this game is a PVE game while PvP is obviously an afterthought.

 

 

You really can't see that yet?

 

 

Either way, I expect them to make some massive changes to PvP. If they dont, I'll pick up GW2. No big deal I suppose. But it would be nice if they shored up this mess.

 

do you have any concept what balance is ? balance is when you have an equal chance (depending on the circumstances) to kill the other player. that is from a 1v1 standpoint. problem is that people do not understand the classes and their mechanics and just run around mindless. from a team pov you have mirror classes, so if you choose not to play the teamplay role then that is not a balance issue. so far in this game, the teams that heal are the teams that win. if its hutball, the team that passes the ball is the team that wins. its not unbalanced if you are bad.

 

i play a merc and when melee gets on me, then i have few options to kite, when im kiting im not doing damage. so i have to position myself correctly and dont let them leap onto me, meaning i have to pay attention to whats going on and not get sucked into range. pvp'ers call this playing smart and to their class ability. you let me cast, and people will die. sages and sorcs in particular because they go splat once their bubble is down. i come to the fight late and pick up all the killing blows.

[hoylejeremy]

do you have any concept what balance is ? balance is when you have an equal chance (depending on the circumstances) to kill the other player. that is from a 1v1 standpoint. problem is that people do not understand the classes and their mechanics and just run around mindless. from a team pov you have mirror classes, so if you choose not to play the teamplay role then that is not a balance issue. so far in this game, the teams that heal are the teams that win. if its hutball, the team that passes the ball is the team that wins. its not unbalanced if you are bad.

 

i play a merc and when melee gets on me, then i have few options to kite, when im kiting im not doing damage. so i have to position myself correctly and dont let them leap onto me, meaning i have to pay attention to whats going on and not get sucked into range. pvp'ers call this playing smart and to their class ability. you let me cast, and people will die. sages and sorcs in particular because they go splat once their bubble is down. i come to the fight late and pick up all the killing blows.

 

Ohhh... huh. You are literally looking at balance from a 1v1 perspective. I was not. I have actually never thought about balance from a 1v1 perspective in any MMORPGs. Which is why I think Sages are so incredibly massive in team play.

 

I guess I am thinking about it from a team play perspective. But for the record, I don't think any class can beat a Balance Sage 1v1 except a Balance Sage (Or their Sith counterparts). If both classes are equally geared and the player has equal skill, I think Sages are the best 1v1 class in the game.

[Herculieas]

I don't think

Makes sense now.

 

Every class can beat a Balance Sage and a Madness Sorc. Every class.

[hoylejeremy]

Makes sense now.

 

Every class can beat a Balance Sage and a Madness Sorc. Every class.

 

Huh. Possibly. But really, you are jsut making that up. Which I suppose is what I am doing. Except I actually play a Sage.

 

Do you even play a Sage or Sorc?

Edited January 1, 2012 by hoylejeremy

[goldenarmz]

Ohhh... huh. You are literally looking at balance from a 1v1 perspective. I was not. I have actually never thought about balance from a 1v1 perspective in any MMORPGs. Which is why I think Sages are so incredibly massive in team play.

 

I guess I am thinking about it from a team play perspective. But for the record, I don't think any class can beat a Balance Sage 1v1 except a Balance Sage (Or their Sith counterparts). If both classes are equally geared and the player has equal skill, I think Sages are the best 1v1 class in the game.

 

so now you are just reading what you want to read. did you not see the part where i posted about team play? but with your 1v1 analysis, i destroy sages easily with my merc. its balanced because they can just run out of range. does this mean im overpowered ? nope not even close.

[hoylejeremy]

so now you are just reading what you want to read. did you not see the part where i posted about team play? but with your 1v1 analysis, i destroy sages easily with my merc. its balanced because they can just run out of range. does this mean im overpowered ? nope not even close.

 

You can run out of range and I can LoS. I can also force speed to you. I can force stun you. I can insta slow you so you cant leave range. I can insta root you.

 

I mean, what's your point?

Edited January 1, 2012 by hoylejeremy

[Herculieas]

Huh. Possibly. But really, you are jsut making that up. Which I suppose is what I am doing. Except I actually play a Sage.

 

Do you even play a Sage or Sorc?

See this post in which I responded to you making up a Sage skill that does 5k damage:

What is this Force of Power ability you speak of? I'm curious. I must not have bought it because it's not among my ability page. A Disturbance crit does ~1.3k damage. So this Force of Power ability must have a damage potential of almost 5k. That's incredible. My highest damage dealer, Force in Balance, has only ever crit for 2.6k.

 

Let's say this "Force of Power" nuke does exist, which it doesn't. A Merc can do 6k with one ability. That's LESS than this magical Force of Power 5k nuke, and the Merc can do this while being infinitely more tanky than the Sage. Granted, it's not an instant cast, but neither is this Force of Power ability. Or is it? I really have no idea, considering you made it up. The burst that the Sage has is dwarfed in comparison to other classes. A marauder hit my Sage for more than 4k the other day. This is a melee class which everyone agrees is underpowered, yet, it has more ranged burst than my ranged class.

[goldenarmz]

You can run out of range and I can LoS. I can also force speed to you. I can force stun you. I can insta slow you so you cant leave range. I can insta root you.

 

I mean, what's your point?

 

you get into range and you die once that bubble is down. the op is right, sages damage is not good but it is balanced because they are mobile. do you see the concept of balance? my merc has absurd damage, but is not mobile at all and lacks cc to keep melee off me. im not built to kite.

[Agroovesak]

See, lying about your 2800 arena rating and then giving no way to prove it is just sad.

 

Keep using the word derp though. It makes you look smart.

 

I played Shaman at 2300-2400 in TBC and 2k+ in wrath since i switched to a server for friends.

 

WoW arenas had serious balance issues outside of 5v5 generally throughout it's lifetime. SWTOR has significantly better class balance 1v1 and likely even group v group. I didn't see what you were originally trying to argue, but this is one point where you are very wrong on.

 

Not sure if arenajunkies still has wotlk/tbc posts since they redid the site, but you can search the shaman forums for Fuuga/Superstim if you'd like to see my character.

 

 

Faction is correct about the class. It's low damage with high kiting ability. It has some mechanics that can be abused in huttball but every class has crazy stuff in there outside of maybe marauders.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Agroovesak

[hoylejeremy]

See this post in which I responded to you making up a Sage skill that does 5k damage:

 

I really don't see why you can't understand something so simple.

 

 

Pop your 1.5 minute cooldown while casting disturbance.

 

Disturbance reaches target for 1600.

 

As it hits your target, you pop Force of Power for 2800.

 

This adds up to 4400 almost guaranteed damage.

 

Next Global use Project. This skill crits for 1400 about 25% of the time. 45% of the time, it throws a second rock for half damage.

 

If things proc right on the project, we are talking about 6800+ damage over two globals.

 

 

There really is burst if you do it right. His video is horrible because he is not doing it right.

[ChrisJSY]

Sorry, little offtopic but picked up on..

 

You make it sound as if those bursty classes always have little to no mobility or get away when engaged up close, yet this is far from the truth, when geared well they can stand toe to toe for quite some time.

 

I'm not saying they all can, but the decent players often do, I've seen 6 people pound on an operative in full pvp gear and they killed a player I have guarded/taunted the player attacking him, pushing him away and slowing/stunning...

 

Of course, that's all I can do as a tank, I can't mitigate any more damage, gear won't change this it's a 50% transference, I've taunted, I've immobalised and slowed and resolve kicked in because everyone else is trying to, it was then up to the rest of the slack team to heal, kill , or do something against this lone, suicidal operative.

 

Yet, he seems to have opened a huge can of alpha, then had some alpha snacks and to finish off, an alpha desert for a trio of incredibly unbelievable damage bursts before succiming to what I can only imagine were 5 other people pressing there first ability over and over.

 

Sure, I've had plenty of matches where I haven't died for the whole duration of a warzone and I can take a truckload of damage but at times it feels like non tank classes, classes you'd expect to be weaker because they do so much damage offloading in such a short space of time really don't have as much weakness you'd hope.

 

It's almost as if they'd be better off with a pocket healer as a dps than I would as a tank, they can quickly turn the tide of battle than I ever could. Even if I jump into a group of people, force push one, stasis another, hilt strike a third, interupt a healer, aoe slow, awe stun for 6 seconds, aoe taunt, single taunt, DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO ANNOY THE ENEMY AND SLOW THEM DOWN FOR MY TEAM MATES.

 

Or...... I could just bursty bursty through one person to the next and actually remove the problem from the battlefield quickly.

 

Although, the above tactic usually works wonders, most players focus too much on a guardian who's jumped into the middle of them and forget about everyone else on the field, when they think they have you. Guardian leap home.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ChrisJSY

[CHRISGG]

I really don't see why you can't understand something so simple.

 

 

Pop your 1.5 minute cooldown while casting disturbance.

 

Disturbance reaches target for 1600.

 

As it hits your target, you pop Force of Power for 2800.

 

This adds up to 4400 almost guaranteed damage.

 

Next Global use Project. This skill crits for 1400 about 25% of the time. 45% of the time, it throws a second rock for half damage.

 

If things proc right on the project, we are talking about 6800+ damage over two globals.

 

 

There really is burst if you do it right. His video is horrible because he is not doing it right.

 

I could legitimately kill 2 of you at the same time btw.

 

Also there's no way you play a sage anyway. "Force of Power," using Disturbance instead of Mind Crush, etc. You're looking at talent trees and playing theory.

Edited January 1, 2012 by CHRISGG

[hoylejeremy]

I played Shaman at 2300-2400 in TBC and 2k+ in wrath since i switched to a server for friends.

 

WoW arenas had serious balance issues outside of 5v5 generally throughout it's lifetime. SWTOR has significantly better class balance 1v1 and likely even group v group. I didn't see what you were originally trying to argue, but this is one point where you are very wrong on.

 

Not sure if arenajunkies still has wotlk/tbc posts since they redid the site, but you can search the shaman forums for Fuuga/Superstim if you'd like to see my character.

 

 

Faction is correct about the class. It's low damage with high kiting ability. It has some mechanics that can be abused in huttball but every class has crazy stuff in there outside of maybe marauders.

 

Shaman are OP.

 

I know what you mean. I think that if this game actually had arenas, more people would have to admit that the balance truly is horrible in this game. Certainly worse than WoW. But it doesn't. So in the WZs that I've been in, I see certain classes that we need to focus first and Sorcs are definitely at the top of the list depending on the situation of course.

 

Anyway, I'll admit its difficult to gauge just how unbalanced or balanced things are right now, but claiming that it is the most balanced MMORPG to date without having any way to gauge the actual balance of the classes through a controlled environment is asinine. And I have personally found, out of any MMORPG to date, that WoWs balance was by far the best. Was it great? No MMORPG will have great balance. An in my opinion, no other game comes close.

 

I wish someone would list another game that actually felt balanced and had real competitive PvP. Guild Wars was ok, but to get there, they limited the versatility by only allowing 8 skills to be used at once.

 

 

Anyway, in my groups experience, my Sage is OP and we work to remove Sorcs from combat. Bounty Hunters need to be worried about constantly, but its really the sorc utility that is the most bothersome mixed with some solid overall damage. They do out DPS most others, but not all.

[hoylejeremy]

I could legitimately kill 2 of you at the same time btw.

 

Also there's no way you play a sage anyway. "Force of Power," using Disturbance instead of Mind Crush, etc. You're looking at talent trees and playing theory.

 

What... you are an idiot. My name is Bluesunset on Saber of Exar Kun.

 

I usually save my instant spell proc for mind crushes. I use disturbance in only that one situation I listed. Which you are too bad to figure out how to do apparently.

 

 

Is this what you do when you realize you don't know how to play and then post a video of you playing badly?

Edited January 1, 2012 by hoylejeremy

[CHRISGG]

What... you are an idiot. My name is Bluesunset on Saber of Exar Kun.

 

I usually save my instant spell proc for mind crushes. I use disturbance in only that one situation I listed. Which you are too bad to figure out how to do apparently.

 

 

Is this what you do when you realize you don't know how to play and then post a video of you playing badly?

 

Mind Crush does more damage than disturbance period. The initial damage is higher and then it leaves a dot. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're an 1800 WoW player, as you admitted.

[hoylejeremy]

Mind Crush does more damage than disturbance period. The initial damage is higher and then it leaves a dot. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're an 1800 WoW player, as you admitted.

 

No, I did not admit that. Great reading comprehension though.

 

I mean, even in the post you quoted, I showed you where I was using mind crushes. Terrible.

 

And Mind Crush is a 2 second cast. You are bad as seen in this video. Your comments in it are also very rookie.

Edited January 1, 2012 by hoylejeremy

[Badavan]

I was in an amazing game today. Me as a bounty who spammed my highest dmg abilities as well as combos etc. managed to get barely 200k dmg (then I mean constantly doing dmg to ppl). In the other team there was this sorcerer who spent all game spamming 2 abilities a dot and the force lightning he ended up on 400k dmg. We were both lvl 50, he managed to 3 shot me and I didn't even manage to get him to half in a 1v1.

 

I'm a Vanguard Trooper who routinely hits 200k+ damage in Warzones at level 33 (yes, even against multiple 50s on the other side). I usually lose those games, but I still hit top or close to top damage as that's what I'm specced to do. I've been able to do this since around level 20.

 

Now, I'm not bringing this up to say "lol u bad" or anything like that. What I would like to know is specifically, what does your Skill Tree look like? What abilities do you prefer to use in pvp (are you the more Death From Above and AOE type or the single targe "I'MMA CHARGIN MAH LAZER")? Have you tried changing your tactics, ability use, or skill tree around to do more damage?

 

First thing I do when I lose is to look at what I did wrong. Second thing I do is look at what the opponent did right. Last thing I look at is what could be unbalanced. I'll reiterate what other people in this thread have stated: As of right now, SWTOR is incredibly well-balanced. It has a few fringe things that could use a look, but it's a hell of a lot better than any other MMO I've seen at this point in launch.

[CHRISGG]

 

And Mind Crush is a 2 second cast.

 

You just proved that you're not a Sorc or Sage.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9KVInlS

 

Get out, 1800er.

[hoylejeremy]

You just proved that you're not a Sorc or Sage.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9KVInlS

 

Get out, 1800er.

 

Wow, why are you such an idiot. I told you in my post that I used instant mind crushes. Please stop being so stupid.

[CHRISGG]

Wow, why are you such an idiot. I told you in my post that I used instant mind crushes. Please stop being so stupid.

 

ROFL you said nothing of the sort. Your post is quoted right there.

 

Just like this one:

 

I played in like the low 2k range.

 

Backpedal. Walk backwards, just like you do ingame. Except this time do it on the forums.

[hoylejeremy]

ROFL you said nothing of the sort. Your post is quoted right there.

 

Just like this one:

 

 

 

Backpedal. Walk backwards, just like you do ingame. Except this time do it on the forums.

 

Right, the low 2k range. You are an idiot and you just proved it by quoting me. Thanks for doing all the work for me.

[CHRISGG]

Right, the low 2k range. You are an idiot and you just proved it by quoting me. Thanks for doing all the work for me.

 

1800 and "the low 2k range" are one in the same by the way. That's the kind of thing you keep to yourself. Goddamn 2 second cast mind crush.

[hoylejeremy]

1800 and "the low 2k range" are one in the same by the way. That's the kind of thing you keep to yourself. gosh darn 2 second cast mind crush.

 

No, they are not. I guess you like trollin'. I'm also guessing you are going for 2800 rating this week, huh.

 

**** hater. And please, L2Play Sage.