Call for NO credit transfer to Shea Vizla

[Dylanof]

HI,

While i can see why someone would bring across existing characters to Shea Vizla there is a real issue that is going to be a huge problem.

The ability to transfer credits and other currencies. 

 

Why is this an issue. Well we have an non inflated economy on the server and with such an economy the game puts a value on game play. Put in some effort to do some heroics or bonus series and your effort is rewarded being with able to go to the GTN and buy an augment, outfit or color crystal. perhaps you now have some money to open up your stronghold door or craft some items to sell buying the recombiners etc. The time you invest in the game on Shea Vizla has value. The mechanisms put in place such as stronghold doors, trade fees, repair bills(which are a little to high) are keeping a good hold on inflation but let us ask what would happen if someone from one of the other servers was to be able to bring 100 billion credits over.

 

They would instantly go to the GTN and buy every single item stealing the hard work of the players that have been living and forming this economy. They would bring flag ship encryptions so the market for guilds to farm commanders and work together would be gone just ruined by imported items.in time the credits transferred in would filter through out the economy but the reward for playing the game would be gone. You would have imported the problem from the other servers.

 

There is a solution to this that could fix the American & European servers as well.

• Don't allow credit and currency imports onto Shea Vizla. Bring your toons and legacy not your credits
• Open two new servers American & European Amazon based mega server.
• Announce that in a years time that the old servers will be shutting down.
• Announce players can transfer their characters off the old servers for free with one proviso (they cant bring there credits)

 

Please don't import the other servers issue to Shea Vizla. Bring your character and legacy just not your cash. I hope someone on the dev team will take a good long hard think over this.

 

 

 

 

[Toraak]

3 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

HI,

While i can see why someone would bring across existing characters to Shea Vizla there is a real issue that is going to be a huge problem.

The ability to transfer credits and other currencies. 

 

Why is this an issue. Well we have an non inflated economy on the server and with such an economy the game puts a value on game play. Put in some effort to do some heroics or bonus series and your effort is rewarded being with able to go to the GTN and buy an augment, outfit or color crystal. perhaps you now have some money to open up your stronghold door or craft some items to sell buying the recombiners etc. The time you invest in the game on Shea Vizla has value. The mechanisms put in place such as stronghold doors, trade fees, repair bills(which are a little to high) are keeping a good hold on inflation but let us ask what would happen if someone from one of the other servers was to be able to bring 100 billion credits over.

 

They would instantly go to the GTN and buy every single item stealing the hard work of the players that have been living and forming this economy. They would bring flag ship encryptions so the market for guilds to farm commanders and work together would be gone just ruined by imported items.in time the credits transferred in would filter through out the economy but the reward for playing the game would be gone. You would have imported the problem from the other servers.

 

There is a solution to this that could fix the American & European servers as well.

• Don't allow credit and currency imports onto Shea Vizla. Bring your toons and legacy not your credits
• Open two new servers American & European Amazon based mega server.
• Announce that in a years time that the old servers will be shutting down.
• Announce players can transfer their characters off the old servers for free with one proviso (they cant bring there credits)

 

Please don't import the other servers issue to Shea Vizla. Bring your character and legacy just not your cash. I hope someone on the dev team will take a good long hard think over this.

 

 

 

 

Except those that are APAC players have every right to want the credits they've earned in game to go over to the server that was put specifically for them in that region. Economy should not have anything to do with that.

 

The more people put restrictions on server transfers, the more likely that server will just become a failure and wasted resources. Broadsword needs to make it so those that are from the APAC region want to go there, not put restrictions on those that would go there, but have no desire to lose what they have earned.

[Lord_Malganus]

They created a low ping server option for APAC players that also welcomed all players that wanted a fresh start with a focus on economy. There is no way now to change what they created without showing favoritism. They can keep it as is where everyone is playing by the same rules, OR they can make special exceptions for certain players, OR they could do otherwise.

I'm only curious to see what decisions they land on.

[Dylanof]

24 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Except those that are APAC players have every right to want the credits they've earned in game to go over to the server that was put specifically for them in that region. Economy should not have anything to do with that.

Economy is the health of the game and we have a real opportunity to favor effort. As previous stated you have the same opportunities as every other player. I'm saying bring your legacy with your favorite character just not your credits from an over inflated economy that has had a decade of non inflationary measures mixed with gold farmers where one ships peanut cost 3 billion credits on the GTN. Don't steal the opportunity for this fresh start from yourself. 

Its not stealing from you or hurting you as you can the same opportunity as the next person.

[Dylanof]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

I'm not a fan, simply because "all are equal" only counts for the people that started at release date of the server. Everyone who starts today, months after release, is already 10+m behind. The gap is already significant and will only grow. The economy is already on the way to being "broken", inequality. The rich are already rich again, and the poor are poor again, simply because they can't put the time into the game, that is necessary for the hustle.

If you allow server transfers, at least the people that are currently hopelessly behind, but gained wealth on other servers, will be in contention again.

If you are new on all servers, you will be broke anyway. With or without transfers.

So there is a fundamental flaw in your logic. TIme playing the game is rewarding. You are saying ill import money and strip the value of the money that people have put the EFFORT into earning, playing . Nothing stopping someone today leveling a character and earning 400k per planet on heroics or investing time into crafting. You are stripping the value of that currency earnt on the server by way transferred wealth out of proportion to the server economy.

 

What is your solution may i ask ?

[AFadedMemory]

+1 for credit limit

Edited January 11 by AFadedMemory

[AFadedMemory]

2 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

'Im not a fan, simply because "all are equal" only counts for the people that started at release date of the server.

With full transfers the advantage will swing to players who have been playing since the other servers open. Those servers have been open for years rather than 2ish months. Bigger advantage to be gained through transfers then would be retained by SV starters if transfers were not allowed. Since those players can still use the credits on the server thy obtained them on, there really isn't a need to move them, just wants to move them. The economy is broken on every server except SV. There is a need to address the economy. BS has stated they are attempting to work on the economy. Best approach, generally speaking, is prevention rather then reclamation. 

I think a credit limit is the most realistic approach, (I do think zero credits would be better but it would ruffle to many feathers) 10 million credits per toon + 1 free transfer would be adequate for those wanting a foot hold. (It takes roughly 24,240,000 credits, don't know what it cost for the 5 new comps, to unlock all the globe legacy unlocks. I'd say 30 million would be adequate with character sheet perks included. With a free transfer, it would take 2000 cc to get 30 million credits, and possibly 3 lv 80 toons. Compare that to the only option for endgame on SV right now, the 3300 cc for 1 lv 80 toon with zero credits, you're getting a good deal still. (If you transfer a toons that has those unlocked already you'll have 30 million credits for other things)

Edited January 11 by AFadedMemory

[Bleeet]

As a new player I can only support this argument because what am I going to bring from the other servers? Nothing because I have nothing, I vote to keep transfers away so that its a fresh start for everyone. This way new players aren't behind forever and have a chance to catch up with all the content. Because if transfers open up like the topic of this thread states everything will just be too expensive and the economy will just be dumb at that stage. At least at the moment I can afford some things on the Galactic Trade Network.

[AFadedMemory]

10 minutes ago, Bleeet said:

I vote to keep transfers away so that its a fresh start for everyone.

I agree that an influx of credits is a bad idea. However, prohibiting transfer of any kind would most likely kill the server. if the sever dies there would be no low economy server. 

Edited January 11 by AFadedMemory

[FrontLineFodder]

13 hours ago, Dylanof said:

• Announce that in a years time that the old servers will be shutting down.

And kill SWTOR the day they announce that.

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

literally no difference to 500m-1bn

500m takes roughly 20,000 heroics to obtain with a lv 80 toon.  1 billion takes roughly 40,000 heroics with a lv 80 toon. That’s a significant differences. (Heroics give 25,000-28,000 credits as a completion reward for lv 80s. That’s about 4000 heroics between each 100m)

I started in 2015 and the prices were pretty close to what they are now on SV. That was like 3 years after launch with garbage sinks and full transfers (granted the economy wasn’t as bad then as it is now) if BS play their cards right they can keep the economy low for more then a couple of months. if they introduce full transfer the economy will break faster then it has for any other server. SV definitely needs special treatment.

Edited January 11 by AFadedMemory

[FrontLineFodder]

There has been so much talk on this, but no response from BS.

It is a lot easier to keep subscribers then it is to get them back.

If they don't allow transfers to the APAC region server, BS will lose subscribers

• I would expect more unsubscribers from the APAC region
• possibly enough to justify moving the server over to the US where the remaining player base will be
  • losing still more APAC subscribers

If they don't maintain the economy on Shae Vizla, they will lose players

• there are players who like the reset economy prices
• GTN prices are low enough that FTP can buy things

 

also my 2c when describing servers:

Regional Server

• located in a particular region targeted to players in that region who experience improved game response

Fresh Start

• Any server the player does not have a legacy on, allowing a fresh play with none of the aids they have accumulated from the 10+ years of SWTOR

Reset Economy

• A New server with no transfers from existing servers, maintaining an economy starting from a fresh character legacies only

Edited January 11 by FrontLineFodder

[FrontLineFodder]

17 hours ago, Dylanof said:

There is a solution to this that could fix the American & European servers as well.

• Don't allow credit and currency imports onto Shea Vizla. Bring your toons and legacy not your credits
• Open two new servers American & European Amazon based mega server.
• Announce that in a years time that the old servers will be shutting down.
• Announce players can transfer their characters off the old servers for free with one proviso (they cant bring there credits)

 

It would be easier to just announce a date in the future, say on May the 4th 2024, all credits on SV, SF, SS, TL, TH & DM will be wiped.

all characters will be left with 10K credits as of this change.

no fussing around with character transfers or whatever.

no forcing guilds to do over the grind to level up their guild

 

edit:

of course, APAC players would still want to transfer their characters over to Shae Vizla

Edited January 11 by FrontLineFodder
of course

[DWho]

9 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

It would be easier to just announce a date in the future, say on May the 4th 2024, all credits on SV, SF, SS, TL, TH & DM will be wiped.

If you wanted to go that route, a better way would be to institute an escrow system like there is for f2p and preferred players but at a much higher level. That reduces credit liquidity without taking away the credits and it makes it much more difficult to buy up all of an item on the GTN to resell at higher prices (due to the limited funds). Subs could retrieve credits from their escrow each day (for free) up to whatever the escrow limit was.

The biggest problem right now is the APAC players refusing to even play on the server until they get free transfers (no one really knows how many that is but some people seem to think it is enough to make a difference). That is driving the population of the server down and making it appear there is not much interest in the server. All APAC players should be playing at least some of their time on the server regardless of how they feel about transfers. Not doing so potentially dooms the server to closing.

[Jdast]

17 hours ago, Dylanof said:

There is a solution to this that could fix the American & European servers as well.

• Don't allow credit and currency imports onto Shea Vizla. Bring your toons and legacy not your credits
• Open two new servers American & European Amazon based mega server.
• Announce that in a years time that the old servers will be shutting down.
• Announce players can transfer their characters off the old servers for free with one proviso (they cant bring there credits)

I have not slithered into the swamp that is the ongoing debate about how to handle the transfer of characters, legacies, credits, etc., to Shae Vizla for a simple reason: I live in the USA and am very, very happy on Star Forge. I think it would be pretty obnoxious, dare I say arrogant, for me to tell APAC-based players what should happen to / with their regional server when the outcome doesn't impact me in the slightest. All of my equities lie solely within the geographic confines of NA servers and Star Forge specifically. 

Read into the above paragraph what you will.

Suffice it to say, the moment there is the announcement of any type of credit wipe / asset deterioration / even an escrow fund, is the moment I pilot my fabulous pleasure barge into a Sarlacc Pit at light speed, hit the 'unsubscribe' button and never look back.

Dasty

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

No, that is not a significant difference, simply because the poor are only online for about 2 hours per weekend, doing only story. And when they grind credits they do 20 heroics in two weeks. So the difference between 20k heroics and 40k heroics is NOT significant. Both is simply out of reach.

That doesn't really justify transferring credits over though, and It is in fact easier to catch up to millionaire then to billionaires (granted players would have to sub, make CC purchases, work the GTN, and participate in PVE activities. This is kind of what BS want players to do) Which group will have the most paying customer on SV? Full Transfers, No Transfers, or Modified Transfers? My money would be on modified transfers

 

[Dylanof]

8 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

There is no flaw in my logic. You are just fundamentally short sighted. As i explained, and you did not understand, the prices are already rising, because people are already wealthy, and the players, who couldn't invest the time are poor and left behind. The hustle for 400k today is tomorow already 600k. And next week a million. In four weeks two millions. And the poor are still not doing enough hours to keep pace. And this doesn't even include the people, who will start in February.

The great thing about heroics, you can solo them takes some time or you can put together a guild group get to know people and hey may turn in to something else while you fund your play. People have forgotten that things take time, this current version of the gearing system is time based, the server economy favors you putting effort in through some time could be an hour per day or a couple. I also am not saying don't transfer your toon or your legacy I am saying no credits and no other currencies such as flagship encryptions.

I put out a detailed argument and asked for your solution which i want business as usual let me have all my credits so i can strip value from the rest of the player base.

[Dylanof]

5 hours ago, Jdast said:

I have not slithered into the swamp that is the ongoing debate about how to handle the transfer of characters, legacies, credits, etc., to Shae Vizla for a simple reason: I live in the USA and am very, very happy on Star Forge. I think it would be pretty obnoxious, dare I say arrogant, for me to tell APAC-based players what should happen to / with their regional server when the outcome doesn't impact me in the slightest. All of my equities lie solely within the geographic confines of NA servers and Star Forge specifically. 

Read into the above paragraph what you will.

Suffice it to say, the moment there is the announcement of any type of credit wipe / asset deterioration / even an escrow fund, is the moment I pilot my fabulous pleasure barge into a Sarlacc Pit at light speed, hit the 'unsubscribe' button and never look back.

Dasty

Hi Dasty,

How do you think broadsword should try to deflate the economy on the other servers. it was just a thought bubble i had. id be interested in your solution.

[Toraak]

6 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

It would be easier to just announce a date in the future, say on May the 4th 2024, all credits on SV, SF, SS, TL, TH & DM will be wiped.

all characters will be left with 10K credits as of this change.

no fussing around with character transfers or whatever.

no forcing guilds to do over the grind to level up their guild

 

edit:

of course, APAC players would still want to transfer their characters over to Shae Vizla

And watch how quickly massive amounts of players unsub, and uninstall the moment broadsword announced a credit wipe like this. Game may survive, but the population would be closer to the population of Leviathon on the most populated servers.

[Dylanof]

51 minutes ago, Toraak said:

And watch how quickly massive amounts of players unsub, and uninstall the moment broadsword announced a credit wipe like this. Game may survive, but the population would be closer to the population of Leviathon on the most populated servers.

True that would be a little rash. I did propose  a solution that has worked well in the crypto space last year before broadsword take over, a credit consolidation. basically removing zeros off the end 10k old credits would be worth 1 new credit. The beauty of a consolidation is the value of the persons credits would not change but it would bring meaning back to content. Items would still have the same value with in the economy.

 

I have been playing for years on SS and have watched this situation evolve unchecked

[Darcmoon]

40 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

True that would be a little rash. I did propose  a solution that has worked well in the crypto space last year before broadsword take over, a credit consolidation. basically removing zeros off the end 10k old credits would be worth 1 new credit. The beauty of a consolidation is the value of the persons credits would not change but it would bring meaning back to content. Items would still have the same value with in the economy.

 

I have been playing for years on SS and have watched this situation evolve unchecked

As far as I would be concerned, and I imagine many others, that wouldn’t be much different than zeroing out my credits. I wouldn’t trust them not to do it again and again, or just zeroing out our credits.  I also don’t have any faith they would adjust the cost of items or repairs to account for them removing zeros.  It would equate to me leaving and probably others. 

[Dylanof]

21 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

As far as I would be concerned, and I imagine many others, that wouldn’t be much different than zeroing out my credits. I wouldn’t trust them not to do it again and again, or just zeroing out our credits.  I also don’t have any faith they would adjust the cost of items or repairs to account for them removing zeros.  It would equate to me leaving and probably others. 

I can understand what you mean. As i suggested before it was an idea i had last year its not what i am suggesting today which is bring your toons to shea vizla bring your legacy but not the credits. we have gone completely off topic but it is a good discussion.

 

As per the consolidation idea from last year you wouldn't need to adjust prices because the value of the economy would be the same and prices(credit sinks) would help to curve inflation as they have on shea vizla which brings us back to the main topic.

[Darcmoon]

1 hour ago, Dylanof said:

As per the consolidation idea from last year you wouldn't need to adjust prices because the value of the economy would be the same and prices(credit sinks) would help to curve inflation as they have on shea vizla which brings us back to the main topic.

Them not adjusting prices would just be adding insult to injury.  Especially when you consider the rep items that cost anywhere from 250,000 to 1M credits.  I know you were probably just throwing out a number for the credit consolidation, but at a 10k to 1 ratio then 100M credits would become 10k credits.  Additionally, they upped the credits for repairs in a bid to combat inflation and not adjusting that makes it hurt even worse.  

[Dylanof]

2 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

Them not adjusting prices would just be adding insult to injury.  Especially when you consider the rep items that cost anywhere from 250,000 to 1M credits.  I know you were probably just throwing out a number for the credit consolidation, but at a 10k to 1 ratio then 100M credits would become 10k credits.  Additionally, they upped the credits for repairs in a bid to combat inflation and not adjusting that makes it hurt even worse.  

It is how we have been living on SV and really it is not that bad and inflation is very well controlled. We have some individuals attempting to squeeze the market on some cartel items but they arnt selling and they are losing listing fees big items are going for an average of 2m for a set but they are attempting to list them for 5 to 10 times that amount. no one has that kind of money so they are basically stupid.

 

As for the cost controls the strongholds and repairs are the major credit sink and it is working quite well and has made heroic and daily content relevant again. Id invite you to join us and test it out for a week.

[Darcmoon]

22 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

It is how we have been living on SV and really it is not that bad and inflation is very well controlled. We have some individuals attempting to squeeze the market on some cartel items but they arnt selling and they are losing listing fees big items are going for an average of 2m for a set but they are attempting to list them for 5 to 10 times that amount. no one has that kind of money so they are basically stupid.

 

As for the cost controls the strongholds and repairs are the major credit sink and it is working quite well and has made heroic and daily content relevant again. Id invite you to join us and test it out for a week.

I'm not talking about the economy on SV.  I have no characters on that server and not sure if I ever will.  I am talking about the credit consolidation you mentioned.  Please read what I said again.  It was how I would feel at that point, granted only if I didn't quit as soon as they announced what they were planning.  There were also the items I mentioned that would immediately be out of most peoples price ranges unless they wanted to drop all of their credits for an item or two.