If you think Marauder is weak...

[jimlaheysadrunk]

doing well on my marauder so far, a few kills from 30. no problems here, just a bit of a tricky class to learn.

 

this same thing happened with BF3. someone complains that a weapon is OP just because they get killed by it alot and they scream nerf. or their weapon of choice is not doing the job so they scream buff. usually its not a problem of balance, its a problem of skill and not realizing that different weapons (or classes in SWTOR) have different play styles, recoil, rate of fire etc... its a problem will never be solved because majority of people on this planet flat out refuse to try to better themselves at something, instead they just say FIX IT FOR ME SO I CAN WIN.

 

could marauders use a bit of tweaking? sure, but they are not broken or horrible or hard to play like everyone seems to think.

 

i blame justin beiber.

[TheGiordano]

 

I don't really agree with the whole skill part, being mmos is not the hardest thing to play, So the whole chest thumping im more skilled blah blah blah means nothing. What I do think is that all the effort we put out compare to other classes that do it with even less risk is not worth it.

 

 

The class can work, but I would only invite it in groups for the group buff. Not the damage.

 

I'm going to stop you hear and ask, what 'effort' have you really had to put into this game? Or, matter of fact, any game? Many, many maraduers destroy in PvP, which is the only damage meter thus far. How can you say that the damage isn't there? What proof have you that the damage lacks, when soo many, including myself, have topped PvP Damage charts. (Not saying i'm good, i suck to be honest, but it's simple to top charts with this class.) I'm just baffled that now marauders are being dummed down to nothing.

 

Our damage output is fantastic no matter what spec. On the other hand our survivability blows. How does this constitute as a flawed class? We aren't meant to be tanks we're dps. Considering you have a good tank, the poor survivability will be negated in a group PvE setting. Personally i can't wait for damage meters to be implemented, i'm excited to see what they show.

 

Just my input. Enjoy

[DreamMorpheus]

Except a Class Shouldnt Have to be played in a near perfect Fashion for it to be any good, while there should be a gap between the Amazingly skilled players and the less skilled, it shouldnt be What it is now

 

Soo, you don't think there is a niche for a slightly more complicated class that it actually takes some work to pump DPS out of? If you don't want that, play ranged.

 

Weapon based melee *IS* typically harder to play than most other class types. IMO, Ranged classes are so ridiculously easy I fall asleep at the keyboard. What makes the class fun is the extremely high damage potential, and as gear gets better and better, the more gear-dependent classes are the ones that are going to scale the best. (And dual wield *ALWAYS* scales better with gear than other damage classes) It's the same reason I love my Frost DK so much in wow. That's honestly the class that the Marauder reminds me of the most.

 

Quinn makes leveling a hell of a lot easier, I don't think it should be that big an issue to summon him for a couple of particularly hard pulls. I am also *VERY* glad I went artifice, as double epics every 2 levels has been an enormous help.

 

To whoever was saying marauders are a raid liability, I find that pretty hard to believe with a baseline interrupt with a 6 second (specced) cd, and a viable 2nd interrupt in a specced point blank force charge (that builds rage). TWO excellent group steroids (that can actually be stacked together) Seriously, 30 fury must come preposterously fast to a fully specced, raid buffed marauder.

 

Every class isn't supposed to be identical. I think a lot of the people that wanted combat rogues from wow got something pretty damn different, and are pretty upset about it. There are 7 other classes if you don't like it. If the DPS is fine, and the raid utility is fine, and the survivability is fine, I don't see any reason to nerf the difficulty. Doing that will irritate the people like me that kind of like the depth and the nuance of the class.

 

(And FYI - Ive also noticed from other marauders Ive talked too, hit that damn cloak of pain button every time you can, it makes a preposterous difference.

 

TL:DR:

 

Some of us like the difficulty level, it's kinda petulant to whine about that aspect when the class is plenty powerful in the right hands.

[jimlaheysadrunk]

^^ this

[DeathStryke]

Wait, people are complaining SM is underpowered in PvE? Wat.

 

 

The mission to kill Darth Vengeance I did the whole thing with Jaesa and did it all first try. I don't see why people would be complaining about anything.

 

[Teladis]

I'm going to stop you hear and ask, what 'effort' have you really had to put into this game? Or, matter of fact, any game? Many, many maraduers destroy in PvP, which is the only damage meter thus far. How can you say that the damage isn't there? What proof have you that the damage lacks, when soo many, including myself, have topped PvP Damage charts. (Not saying i'm good, i suck to be honest, but it's simple to top charts with this class.) I'm just baffled that now marauders are being dummed down to nothing.

 

Our damage output is fantastic no matter what spec. On the other hand our survivability blows. How does this constitute as a flawed class? We aren't meant to be tanks we're dps. Considering you have a good tank, the poor survivability will be negated in a group PvE setting. Personally i can't wait for damage meters to be implemented, i'm excited to see what they show.

 

Just my input. Enjoy

 

 

I don't understand this whole damage output thing.

 

I've seen a BH and A sorc pull out just as much damage as us. I'm not saying we can't do more, what I'm saying is the trade off of lack of cc and defense is not worth the slight edge we get on the other classes. In fact, I seen a OP destory the numbers mara can pull off in pvp. It makes me sad that people have to post damage output in pvp no less to tell themselves they are fine, the class does so much damage. All classes can put out that damage.

 

 

I don't want the class to be dumbed down, I want it to work a lot more fluid. I want the class to be invited in groups for something other than a damage buff. I want the class risk vs reward to be balanced.

 

 

I hate to tell everyone in here, but if you think your damage output is so far ahead of every other class, that is the reason why you have bad defense. You are wrong, What you can do other classes can do easier. This how it always was even in beta, it's the reason they added fury so mara could get invited to groups.

 

 

 

So in the end, all we are good for is a buff.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Teladis

[Omgthisnamesux]

Weapon based melee *IS* typically harder to play than most other class types. IMO, Ranged classes are so ridiculously easy I fall asleep at the keyboard. What makes the class fun is the extremely high damage potential, and as gear gets better and better, the more gear-dependent classes are the ones that are going to scale the best. (And dual wield *ALWAYS* scales better with gear than other damage classes) It's the same reason I love my Frost DK so much in wow. That's honestly the class that the Marauder reminds me of the most.

 

Quinn makes leveling a hell of a lot easier, I don't think it should be that big an issue to summon him for a couple of particularly hard pulls. I am also *VERY* glad I went artifice, as double epics every 2 levels has been an enormous help.

 

To whoever was saying marauders are a raid liability, I find that pretty hard to believe with a baseline interrupt with a 6 second (specced) cd, and a viable 2nd interrupt in a specced point blank force charge (that builds rage). TWO excellent group steroids (that can actually be stacked together) Seriously, 30 fury must come preposterously fast to a fully specced, raid buffed marauder.

 

Every class isn't supposed to be identical. I think a lot of the people that wanted combat rogues from wow got something pretty damn different, and are pretty upset about it. There are 7 other classes if you don't like it. If the DPS is fine, and the raid utility is fine, and the survivability is fine, I don't see any reason to nerf the difficulty. Doing that will irritate the people like me that kind of like the depth and the nuance of the class.

 

(And FYI - Ive also noticed from other marauders Ive talked too, hit that damn cloak of pain button every time you can, it makes a preposterous difference.

 

TL:DR:

 

Some of us like the difficulty level, it's kinda petulant to whine about that aspect when the class is plenty powerful in the right hands.

 

1) Again, are people not reading the posts in this thread and simply responding blindly? You do NOT do more damage than any other class - you can do queries online and find specific posts from GZ stating that all DPS classes do within 5% damage of each other.

 

The problem is - all other DPS classes bring CC/Survivability to the table, whereas the Marauder brings none.

 

2) As for interrupts - and raid utility. Please, go actually watch EV videos or do Hutt Hospitality before coming and posting here. Count the number of interrupts used on raid bosses. Then note the amount of movement on those raid fights and the reduced time on target for all non-tank Melee.

 

Once you've actually done your research, or better yet - taken part in the raids live. Then come back and explain how you are going to build up that 30 fury proposterously fast... and how wonderful those interrupts are.

 

3) Noone has stated nerf the difficulty - on the contrary, people have simply stated add some reward for the complexity of the class, or mitigate the risk by adding more survivability. Even the people who say "the class is perfectly fine" in the same sentence write "I have to rest and regen hp after ever mob I fight".....

 

Play a Marauder.

Play anothr class.

Get them both to 40++

Then come back and write here and compare the two. Marauders are NOT broken, the problem is they are not balanced to other classes.

[Hizoka]

1) Again, are people not reading the posts in this thread and simply responding blindly? You do NOT do more damage than any other class - you can do queries online and find specific posts from GZ stating that all DPS classes do within 5% damage of each other.

 

The problem is - all other DPS classes bring CC/Survivability to the table, whereas the Marauder brings none.

 

2) As for interrupts - and raid utility. Please, go actually watch EV videos or do Hutt Hospitality before coming and posting here. Count the number of interrupts used on raid bosses. Then note the amount of movement on those raid fights and the reduced time on target for all non-tank Melee.

 

Once you've actually done your research, or better yet - taken part in the raids live. Then come back and explain how you are going to build up that 30 fury proposterously fast... and how wonderful those interrupts are.

 

3) Noone has stated nerf the difficulty - on the contrary, people have simply stated add some reward for the complexity of the class, or mitigate the risk by adding more survivability. Even the people who say "the class is perfectly fine" in the same sentence write "I have to rest and regen hp after ever mob I fight".....

 

Play a Marauder.

Play anothr class.

Get them both to 40++

Then come back and write here and compare the two. Marauders are NOT broken, the problem is they are not balanced to other classes.

 

you are wrong. Marauders have the best raid buffs in game, they have the best single target damage in game (both were stated by GZ on the beta forums)

 

utility is not just CC - but yet wow baddies seem to think CC is the only form of utility

[RoyFokker]

Marauder, Annihilation spec, never use Quinn and I can take on multiple mobs easily, including strongs and elites. I will say that Marauders are a bit lacking in the distance closing and cc area, but other than that, they do just fine.

[Teladis]

you are wrong. Marauders have the best raid buffs in game, they have the best single target damage in game (both were stated by GZ on the beta forums)

 

utility is not just CC - but yet wow baddies seem to think CC is the only form of utility

 

What little extra damage we do is not worth what we gave up.

[Omgthisnamesux]

you are wrong. Marauders have the best raid buffs in game, they have the best single target damage in game (both were stated by GZ on the beta forums)

 

utility is not just CC - but yet wow baddies seem to think CC is the only form of utility

 

No - you are wrong, I can link to the GZ class design post here:

 

Scroll down and someone reposts the full quote from him, in which he specifically states no DPS class does significantly more than any other.

 

Please - do link to me the GZ quote where he states Marauders do the best single target damage in the game. You won't be able to, because you're making this up - I was in the closed beta and read every single post by GZ starting from 2++ years ago.

 

Technically Snipers do the best single target damage in the game due to Time on Target. Marauders lose DPS due to movement, Snipers can perch within 30m of a target and never have to move.

[Hizoka]

No - you are wrong, I can link to the GZ class design post here:

 

Scroll down and someone reposts the full quote from him, in which he specifically states no DPS class does significantly more than any other.

 

Please - do link to me the GZ quote where he states Marauders do the best single target damage in the game. You won't be able to, because you're making this up - I was in the closed beta and read every single post by GZ starting from 2++ years ago.

 

Technically Snipers do the best single target damage in the game due to Time on Target. Marauders lose DPS due to movement, Snipers can perch within 30m of a target and never have to move.

that shows how little you now, if you actually knew about how snipers work you would know that they DPS goes to basicaly none when they have to move, and few fights allow for snipers to sit still the whole fight.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Arzhanin
Rude comments

[Raiden-loire]

that shows how little you now, if you actually knew about how snipers work you would know that they DPS goes to basicaly none when they have to move, and few fights allow for snipers to sit still the whole fight.

 

 

Wow.. way to completely Ignore what was said, he never said Snipers were awesome when moving, he just said if they didnt move they could do just as much damage as marauders can at a longer range...

 

And also guess we shouldnt expect to see a link proving what you said about class Design as well

Edited January 2, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[Raiden-loire]

I play the class, I enjoy its story, and the feel of it and am quite decent at it, Just overal, Its not as fun to play as it should be, And not as Intuitive as it should be, We lack a lot of tools that other classes get, and dont get the overall damage to cover for it due to inability to keep a good up time on other classes due to them having knock backs, CC's, Stuns, slows and in some cases Immunity to our Gap closer, all while dealing as much damage as we can, Sometimes at a good range away

 

Not everyone in the game is a Super Skilled Special Little Snowflake either, heck the majority of the game isnt, the majority would probably be in the camp of what you call Baddie, And a good majority of the game Feel that Maruders and our Jedi Counterpart are the weekest class overall, with the only counter argument being people saying its not(so overall the same lvl of argument as ours) and people posting Warzone damage(Which you have said in an earlier thread Means nothing in terms of class ability, as well people could easily find warzone results with the opposite result with other classes being Far and ahead of everyone)

Edited January 2, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[Wolfvahn]

Currently 45 Carnage spec using Jeasa(I have to use quinn now)

 

Let me just start off my saying that I love the class and how it plays (And watching the cool lightsaber tricks)

 

I Destroy things in pvp, I'm often at the top of the damage charts with a fair number of obejective points. (I believe that we are the best class for running the ball)

 

In pve... I hate dots. They do an unreasonable amount of damage and drive me crazy

 

Every fight with a Strong unit I can barely live.

 

Recently during a quest I died seven times to the same mob over and over again. I'm almost ready to give up this class and go play something else entirely.

 

So if anybody on this forum can give me some advice please do so.

[Raiden-loire]

Currently 45 Carnage spec using Jeasa(I have to use quinn now)

 

Let me just start off my saying that I love the class and how it plays (And watching the cool lightsaber tricks)

 

I Destroy things in pvp, I'm often at the top of the damage charts with a fair number of obejective points. (I believe that we are the best class for running the ball)

 

In pve... I hate dots. They do an unreasonable amount of damage and drive me crazy

 

Every fight with a Strong unit I can barely live.

 

Recently during a quest I died seven times to the same mob over and over again. I'm almost ready to give up this class and go play something else entirely.

 

So if anybody on this forum can give me some advice please do so.

 

I can only offer a little Advice since i use Rage spec at the moment(Though i later when i have a good amount of time to mess around in a semi controlled environment. as well i war zones i plan to mess around with all of them

 

Use Cloak of pain every time you can in combat, its a decent Damage reduction as well as deals a little damage, Also Obfuscate helps alot since its a 90% reduction to hit, If you have anymore then the one strong Saber Ward is good as well, Also Dont feel bad if you need to pop a medkit or use Force Camouflage to shift Aggro over to your companion.

 

Only other thing i can say is do as much research on the Marauder forums as you can and be aware of your surroundings when you pull a mob/group and try to plan it out

[Ashliet]

Says you.

Not all,but most I am.

I don't pvp and don't need 300 keybinds.

Clicking doesn't hurt my playstyle.

 

Eh you don't pvp then then you don't know that the maruader does fall short.

IF the marauder had a a DAOC "Invunerable to CC for a shortime afer being CC'd" he would be better. Truth is you're using the best companion and someone who clicks every skill and has them all placed wrong no one could take your word.

[Echuu]

If you think the Marauder needs any kind of PVE survivability buff then watch this video.

If you think it's underpowered, then watch this video.

YouTube

 

video of a 31 Marauder w/Quinn easily killing a 34 Elite mob on Taris.

Seriously people, stop the QQ about the class,it's not broken.

 

I lol'd

 

a mercenary bh can take on 2 elite mobs with ease and a 50/50 chance with 3

 

 

and can solo champion lvl mobs 3-4lvl higher

 

yes, I played both and I believe that it makes your point invalid along with the L2P thingy.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Echuu

[Wolfvahn]

I can only offer a little Advice since i use Rage spec at the moment(Though i later when i have a good amount of time to mess around in a semi controlled environment. as well i war zones i plan to mess around with all of them

 

Use Cloak of pain every time you can in combat, its a decent Damage reduction as well as deals a little damage, Also Obfuscate helps alot since its a 90% reduction to hit, If you have anymore then the one strong Saber Ward is good as well, Also Dont feel bad if you need to pop a medkit or use Force Camouflage to shift Aggro over to your companion.

 

Only other thing i can say is do as much research on the Marauder forums as you can and be aware of your surroundings when you pull a mob/group and try to plan it out

 

I pretty much do all that.

[xDagurasu]

You beat an elite mob with the sith warrior's best companion. Congratulations?

 

You obviously haven't been to areas 40+ where you pretty much HAVE to use quinn if you don't want to get steamrolled.

 

Having to rely on one companion just to finish your class quest is a massive oversight. The secret base in corellia is a nightmare with any other companion besides quinn.

 

I disagree. I used Vette with relatively crappy gear compared to what I could have used and did just fine in an Anni spec. Liberal use of Cloak of Pain and Berserk work wonders. In fact, I completed the entirety of the content I was able to do solo without Quinn without any trouble save Baras, and at that point, I just called in a guildie because Quinn is still in his starter gear.

[Hizoka]

Oh i saw what you posted.. Just that he managed to provide a link with a transcript of what was posted which supports his View and Stance on the Argument and challenged you to do the same which you cannot provide, Both were From the Beta Forums and both of you claimed different things were said, Yet one provided at least a form of evidence to back up the claim, and the other didn't saying there is no way to prove it, Using common Sense Whose argument holds more weight

 

EDIT: Well since you edited you post quite a bit to add in all the txt after what i quoted i will have to edit a response

 

I play the class, I enjoy its story, and the feel of it and am quite decent at it, Just overal, Its not as fun to play as it should be, And not as Intuitive as it should be, We lack a lot of tools that other classes get, and dont get the overall damage to cover for it due to inability to keep a good up time on other classes due to them having knock backs, CC's, Stuns, slows and in some cases Immunity to our Gap closer, all while dealing as much damage as we can, Sometimes at a good range away

 

Not everyone in the game is a Super Skilled Special Little Snowflake either, heck the majority of the game isnt, the majority would probably be in the camp of what you call Baddie, And a good majority of the game Feel that Maruders and our Jedi Counterpart are the weekest class overall, with the only counter argument being people saying its not(so overall the same lvl of argument as ours) and people posting Warzone damage(Which you have said in an earlier thread Means nothing in terms of class ability, as well people could easily find warzone results with the opposite result with other classes being Far and ahead of everyone)

 

what tools do we lack?? everyone says this but never says what "tools" we do not have a CC, so what, not everyone has an interrupt we happen to have the best interrupt.

 

Marauders far and away have the best group utility in the game in the form of fury/centering buffs the heal from Juyo form is very under rated. The class is very very simplistic when you break it down. You have to do attack to genreate rage then do other attack that use them. The hitch is people are too lazy to manage the resource system.

 

I constantly kill 2 sith at a time on my 50 sentinel out on Ilum doing my PvP daily. The class in in no way weak if you are smart in how you play it. Everyone is so used to wow mode simple. The mear though of skill mattering is completely mind boggling to them. They just want PvP gear to remove skill from the game like wow did with resiliance.

 

There are FAR more people happy with the sentinel/marauder then unhappy with it, just the vocal QQing minority keep making the same threads over and over hoping to give the illusion that more people are unhappy with it. its just das that WoW taught the bad players out there that is you cry about something they will just dumb it down rather then you actually learning how to play. If the class is too hard for you then play something else, do not ruin the game for the people who like it because you are too terrible to master it yourself.

 

 

 

note : that is not pointed at anyone just at teh QQers in general that want the class dumbed down to the point a dippy bird and a pet rock can play it just fine.

[Hizoka]

I lol'd

 

a mercenary bh can take on 2 elite mobs with ease and a 50/50 chance with 3

 

 

and can solo champion lvl mobs 3-4lvl higher

 

yes, I played both and I believe that it makes your point invalid along with the L2P thingy.

 

marauders can easily take out 2 elites at once... its not hard... 3 is not even that hard if you manage your class right.

 

infact in the sentinel class quest there is a pull on Corilla that is 3 normals and 4 strongs in one pull that can be done just fine, you have to manage your class and companion and not faceroll

[Wolfvahn]

marauders can easily take out 2 elites at once... its not hard... 3 is not even that hard if you manage your class right.

 

infact in the sentinel class quest there is a pull on Corilla that is 3 normals and 4 strongs in one pull that can be done just fine, you have to manage your class and companion and not faceroll

 

 

I am by no means an unskilled player, and I can't even manage two Strong units (Silver boarder) at the same time, 45 voss, Quinn. and I get my *** handed to me in a hand basket if I'm not using EVERYTHING at my disposal.

[Hizoka]

I am by no means an unskilled player, and I can't even manage two Strong units (Silver boarder) at the same time, 45 voss, Quinn. and I get my *** handed to me in a hand basket if I'm not using EVERYTHING at my disposal.

 

i can take out 4 at a time with ease, its about using ALL of your tools not just a few of them.

 

 

every single toll but retaliate is highly useful, however not are not useful all the time. Its what puts a gap between good marauders and bad ones.

 

i'll say it again EVERY skill you use is useful, just not always able to be used.

[EvilFD]

I haven't had a single issue soloing WITHOUT using Quinn. I've used Jaessa since she was available and Vette before that. The only fight I had to work on a bit was the last one w/ Darth Baras.

 

Maybe I spec'd right for PVE (anihilation) from the get-go, or my years of experience playing exclusively warrior type melee classes has helped me but I just haven't witnessed or experienced even 1/10th of the woes that people seem to have.

 

I'm not going to be a 12 year old douche and tell people to "l2p" or call them "scrubs" but I really just don't understand all the complaints about this class. I have a lvl 50 and did every ounce of the leveling solo except for flashpoints and heroic type stuff.