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LinkinPein

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Lhancelot

Lhancelot

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Nobody likes the 20 win top3s from last season... you should have to work for top3s. But wouldn't a win/loss system likely just reward those who played the most, even if some of the better players don't have as much time to play?

 

I mean that kind of happens already, but seemingly not to that magnitude.

 

I would be open to seeing a win/loss put into practice... at this point most of those that always end up on top will likely be there regardless of the queue system.

 

Exactly what ranked players don't have much time to play? I have never met one ranked player that had limited log in time, in fact quite opposite. Most of the time you end up waiting for ranked to pop.

 

Also, when did rewards become time sensitive? Because most high end/high tier pixel rewards require some time investment on games, that's just how it goes on MMOs.

 

If they had a wins/losses system in place there would be less toxicity. The way it is now, one loss creates so much drama with players due to the heavy ELO cost it can inflict.

 

If people had a set amount of matches they knew they had to win to reach the rewards, they would be far less stressed and more people would queue too just for the fact the pressure of costing others the match wouldn't be nearly as heavy as it is now. In reality I believe more players would queue for solo ranked if there was a wins/losses system and this actually would mean faster pops too.

 

The final most important issue with the present ELO system is that it's too easy to cheat and gain high ELO. It's so easy the number of cheaters is ridiculous. Oh, all I got to do is win trade 10 matches with my friends and I can have top spot? Sign me up. That's the attitude of these players who don't care about destroying the integrity of ranked competition with their win trades and dropped matches.

 

The only setting in ranked I see ELO working is team ranked where premade teams compete. It would be far easier to track cheating I'd think if premade groups were involved in shady activities. Also it's a lot easier for teams in team ranked to recognize shady activities of other teams to report whereas solo ranked is harder to prove when someone is cheating.

 

Solo ranked should definitely not be ELO based though. As others have noted, it simply doesn't work. A side benefit to a wins/losses point system is there would be far less /reports for BW to have to sift through investigating for shady activities. It has to be pretty annoying all the reports of cheats/win trades/ etc. they get. Fact is BW can't stop it, if they could they would have stopped the cheating in ranked years ago.

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Etudez

Etudez

Posted
Posted
Nobody likes the 20 win top3s from last season... you should have to work for top3s. But wouldn't a win/loss system likely just reward those who played the most, even if some of the better players don't have as much time to play?

 

I mean that kind of happens already, but seemingly not to that magnitude.

 

I would be open to seeing a win/loss put into practice... at this point most of those that always end up on top will likely be there regardless of the queue system.

 

Let's take a look at 3 possible scenarios that are all prevalent in today's current ELO system regarding Top 3 rewards.

 

 

Player A.) Has friend(s) throwing matches for them on the other team but trying when they are on the same team or using other methods such as bots and queueing at off-hours that win traders use in order to achieve high rating for a top 3 with minmal effort and work put in.

 

Player B.) Is a skilled player, gets lucky with their 10 first placement matches and manages to secure a top 3 spot with less than 20 wins over the course of a couple nights.

 

Player C. ) Is also a skilled player but was unlucky and had Disconnects and throwers on their team during their first 10 placement matches placing them below the average placement score. They end up climbing to to a high rating from their low placement rating with many matches played and many weeks of queueing to secure a top 3 spot.

 

 

Which player would you want to reward? Is player B more deserving than player C because "skill"?

 

 

The points system will eliminate possibility "B" in addition to make it much harder to execute if not completely negate possibility "A" due to the increased participation in ranked if such a system was put in place.

 

The "more skilled" player will naturally have more wins, which as a result means they won't have to play as much as a "less skilled" player that would have to grind and put in a lot more effort just to reach them.

 

Should professional sports team only have to win a few matches in a row in order to reach the championships/finals/top? No, they should play all scheduled matches A.K.A the entire season to maintain and reach top status. If a team can't attend the match, I believe that is called a forfeit.

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Seterade

Seterade

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Posted (edited)
For granked I more agree with you, solos not so much. All of these systems for sure work better with a larger population... but you have to consider the quality of the population.

 

Speaking about solo ranked... in previous seasons for the most part, the majority of those in queue could at least handle themselves. This allowed the side with the most skill, if you will, to often win. This made rating a somewhat more valid measure if it ever was one.

 

Now with the current state of affairs the lack of skill is more the deciding factor in solos because many players are so bad compared to previous seasons ones individual skill is often not enough to win (especially with the queue system redesign implemented in S10).

 

Removal of queue incentives would likely decrease the overall population, but the quality of the queue would likely increase. Eventually more solo ranked vets would likely come back as well due to it being more competitively valid.

 

I personally would rather have more people in queue that knew how to play well, or can at least carry themselves... even if its at the price of less players and somewhat longer pops. I doubt I am alone in that notion.

 

ranked vets left because of expertise left, stale 3 year meta and game breaking lag issues that havent seen fixes since launch. they arent coming back because "trash no longer queues."

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MandoMetal

MandoMetal

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I mean B and C could be seen as equally deserving.

 

The lower wins can hint at how swiftly you are able to climb due to skill, this was more the case in previous seasons though when there was less RNG.

 

The more games you play the more likely you are to eventually streak... high wins can just show you kept trying until you got a lucky streak.

 

C could have put in more work and not nearly been as good of a player as B

 

The sports analogy is good. Its just that the sole deciding factor between players of equal skill in theory would be time available to play, which isn't exactly how one might want it to be.

 

I do see your point though, especially about negating A to some extent... like I said I'm more open to the idea at this state in the game.

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MandoMetal

MandoMetal

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Posted
ranked vets left because of expertise left, stale 3 year meta and game breakering lag issues that havent seen fixes since launch. they arent coming back because "trash no longer queues."

 

The majority may not, but a large quantity left just because of the addition of mats in solos... I wouldn't completely discount it.

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sharkfishman

sharkfishman

Posted
Posted
Let's take a look at 3 possible scenarios that are all prevalent in today's current ELO system regarding Top 3 rewards.

 

 

Player A.) Has friend(s) throwing matches for them on the other team but trying when they are on the same team or using other methods such as bots and queueing at off-hours that win traders use in order to achieve high rating for a top 3 with minmal effort and work put in.

 

Player B.) Is a skilled player, gets lucky with their 10 first placement matches and manages to secure a top 3 spot with less than 20 wins over the course of a couple nights.

 

Player C. ) Is also a skilled player but was unlucky and had Disconnects and throwers on their team during their first 10 placement matches placing them below the average placement score. They end up climbing to to a high rating from their low placement rating with many matches played and many weeks of queueing to secure a top 3 spot.

 

 

Which player would you want to reward? Is player B more deserving than player C because "skill"?

 

 

The points system will eliminate possibility "B" in addition to make it much harder to execute if not completely negate possibility "A" due to the increased participation in ranked if such a system was put in place.

 

The "more skilled" player will naturally have more wins, which as a result means they won't have to play as much as a "less skilled" player that would have to grind and put in a lot more effort just to reach them.

 

Should professional sports team only have to win a few matches in a row in order to reach the championships/finals/top? No, they should play all scheduled matches A.K.A the entire season to maintain and reach top status. If a team can't attend the match, I believe that is called a forfeit.

 

Great post. I think a points system is preferable in the current climate.

 

Would ELO be optimal if SWTOR actually invested in personnel to carefully monitor cheating/win trading and take appropriate actions? Perhaps. But that's obviously not the case.

 

So, if Bioware says "hey, we don't have the money/personnel to invest in ranked PVP to ensure no cheating," then a points-based system that rewards all players for their effort and skill is preferable, especially in "solo" ranked. The current issue often arises because cheaters don't want to bother with group ranked, preferring to game the system rather than actually play in a way the places them on a level playing field.

 

IMO, there shouldn't even be a Top 96 in solo ranked. There could be the same "incomparable" blah titles purchasable with tokens, etc. But top 3 spots and their respective unique titles should be reserved for group ranked.

 

In a perfect world, this wouldn't be the case, but the fact that a large amount of "top" solo ranked players cheat to get there cheapens the tiles/rewards for the legitimate players anyway. So if SWTOR can't invest the money to keep cheaters out, they should just make the system about the rewards, not the glory.

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merovejec

merovejec

Posted
Posted
manipulating your rating gets you gold and top 3 rewards.

 

Sadly I have to second this. If the leaderboards stay the way they are and its a clear message that Eric either lied in what he stated about "no tolerance" or they are simply incompetent in dealing with the wintraders. I still believe they will sort it but looking at twitch and seeing all those cheaters already running around with gold flairs and waiting for "their" top 3 reward makes me really sick.

 

If it goes through there really is no hope for ranked in this game. I already gave up on it, but I do feel sorry for the few players that actually try.

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merovejec

merovejec

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Posted
Tell me this is satire, please.

 

Well why not? Given how they restored so many cheaters one never knows. They are making money off this after all by selling accounts with top 3s. The pvp discord also had most credit exploits so pvpers also were good with credits which they could sell for hundreds of dollars to credit sellers.

 

So by getting direct contact with some one in bioware and giving him a share of the profit...... why not? But thats just a theory, I do not suppose the money would be enough for a Bioware employee. He might rather be helping them out of friendship ot so.

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Jinre_the_Jedi

Jinre_the_Jedi

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So by getting direct contact with some one in bioware and giving him a share of the profit...... why not?

 

Think about what your'e saying lol. You're implying that someone would risk their job security to give some randoms on the internet a couple top 3 titles, in exchange for risking their reputation, income, and potentially healthcare benefits that they get from working at BW Austin, in exchange for...a couple hundred dollars?

 

An employee would risk all of that just to give someone a virtual title that has no meaning outside of this PvP forum, a title that literally most PvErs and casual players in this game won't even understand what it means?

 

I was with you at first dude, there are cheaters who need to be banned. But at this point, I feel like you're a bit too invested into this game if you're thinking that this is some conspiracy with deep meaning. It's literally probably as simple as: BW doesn't have enough man power to fix the issues, or more blatantly, doesn't care, which is the more likely of the two. I know it's hard to accept that the devs don't care about PvP in this game, and that it's easier to come up with outlandish conspiracies, but at some point you have to take a step back and read what you're typing lol.

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merovejec

merovejec

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Posted
Think about what your'e saying lol.

 

I said its only a theory. The person does not have to work at Bioware Austin, there are, and were, positions like that in Ireland and even Köln. Those people dont have to be dealing with unknow players but friends. Its just a theory to keep the thread rolling ;)

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Jinre_the_Jedi

Jinre_the_Jedi

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At this point one can only assume that. Did you play Solo Ranked this season? There's a specific player that probably the entire community knows about who got reset. Said player owns several accounts and has access to bots. BioWare goes to restore him days after they ban him. The entire community minus those who are in said player's mafia circle are in shocked this came to pass. It's a huge red flag for anyone who is following the situation.

 

If the had found evidence in the first place, after who knows how many reports, why would they coward back and start restoring players. I get that they might have made a mistake, but it certainly wasn't this specific ''player''.

 

Only got to play the first week and then I broke my collarbone in a motorcycle accident, so I didn't get to play the rest of S10. Either way though, if everyone knows who the cheaters are, even if they slip through the cracks, they won't be respected by anyone, so what does it matter?

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