The poor business model of sub perks.

[AscendingSky]

I swear, one of these threads pops up every month or so.

 

Your complaints are an expression of pure, unadulterated entitlement. You aren't concerned with 'benefit to the consumer'. You want something without having to meet the requirements for getting said thing.

 

Should I go to my local games retailer and complain and throw a fit because they don't have a SWTOR Collector's Edition available for me to buy over five years after the game came out? Would it be legitimate for anyone to go into Best Buy now and demand that they honor a special item promotion they held on Black Friday last year? Could you justify going into a restaurant that gives away a free dessert to people on their birthday, and demand they give you a free dessert even though your birthday was last month?

 

In a consumer market, sometimes certain products are only available for a limited time. You don't have the right to come in close to a year later and whine and cry about how you don't have a product that is no longer available for purchase. You chose not to subscribe last year to get the Shroud of Memory chapter when it offered as a sub reward, so now you can't get it. The bonus chapter was meant as a reward for customer loyalty. You were not a loyal customer (in the company's eyes), so you are locked out from that reward. That is not 'a punishment to new customers'. That is not 'a bad business model'. That is basic cause and effect. That is common sense. That's fair.

 

Take some responsibility for your own decisions instead of making entitled demands.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky

[RswanBing]

Maybe a good solution would be to replace that reward by something else. Let people who wants to buy that chapter do it, but give a new reward to those who qualified for it during content. So I know, finding what the new reward should be will be very difficult, and it must be a very cool reward to make sure some people accept, but that would compensate whatever it is they think they would "loose" if everyone can access.

 

I get that one doesn't want other to get stuff he qualifies for, but if this is replaced by a more logical reward, which doesn't prevent players to access actual content, I don't really see where would be the issue then.

 

Still, I'm sure some people will refuse that too, because in the end, what they like is having access to something other can't. It's not the content by himself or anything who's important, just this human stupid need to have what others can't have and that's the real point of this kind of rewards.

Edited February 3, 2017 by RswanBing

[Sportiva]

Wouldnt it be great if they just found some way to make more money so you could get more content.

I wish I knew a way they could do that

 

No argument that BW business model is a mess, but in a previous post you asked why are people so opposed to your idea. Then answer is simple, continuous subscribers have been doing the financial heavy lifting of keeping this game alive and in return we have gotten very little for our loyalty. You are asking to further erode the meager benefits that we enjoy.

[AscendingSky]

Maybe a good solution would be to replace that reward by something else. Let people who wants to buy that chapter do it, but give a new reward to those who qualified for it during content. So I know, finding what the new reward should be will be very difficult, and it must be a very cool reward to make sure some people accept, but that would compensate whatever it is they think they would "loose" if everyone can access.

 

But then people like OP would just whine and cry about not being able to get the new shiny being offered as a reward. These kinds of complaints never end. It's entitlement, pure and simple.

[AlaricSevGirl]

Stop feeling so overly entitled to bonus content. The subscriber REWARDS should stay the way they are, sometimes you miss out on things, it happens, it sucks and you might feel its unfair, but thats how it is. If you arent subscribed during the required time, you wont recieve the subscriber reward.

 

Don't you think this is the reason EA is going to give up on this game probably over the next year. We've already seen it going down hill rapidly. They need to do more if they want the game to survive. Actually, maybe they don't want the game to survive.

[AscendingSky]

Don't you think this is the reason EA is going to give up on this game probably over the next year. We've already seen it going down hill rapidly. They need to do more if they want the game to survive. Actually, maybe they don't want the game to survive.

 

If EAWare started letting people get items/chapters/whatever offered to subscribers previously as a reward for staying subscribed, then people would STOP STAYING SUBSCRIBED to get those items. They'd just wait for them to become available later and pick them up whenever they decide to come back again months or years down the road. EAWare knows that. Subscriber rewards are one of the few carrots they have to dangle to try to keep revenue coming in. It would be a bad business model for them to set that kind of precedent going forward.

[SuperJoule]

But then people like OP would just whine and cry about not being able to get the new shiny being offered as a reward. These kinds of complaints never end. It's entitlement, pure and simple.

 

I love how you guys are about the "whine and cry"

when I come with reasonable arguements and win-win situations.

 

You guys are the ones who have the "entitlement" complexity. I sub, I pay money for this game, same as you. I've bought A LOT of hypercrates to become rich in this game, which probably makes me more of a game supporter than a ton of you have been through the years you have been subbing.

 

So how, is it fair?

 

The short answer is; it's not.

And non of you "stop crying" guys, can come up with a valid reasonable arguement why it's not.

[SuperJoule]

If EAWare started letting people get items/chapters/whatever offered to subscribers previously as a reward for staying subscribed, then people would STOP STAYING SUBSCRIBED to get those items. They'd just wait for them to become available later and pick them up whenever they decide to come back again months or years down the road. EAWare knows that. Subscriber rewards are one of the few carrots they have to dangle to try to keep revenue coming in. It would be a bad business model for them to set that kind of precedent going forward.

 

No, they wouldnt, because people stop subscribing because of this nonsense, and a lot more stop because of that, then because of the meager sub rewards they get.

[AscendingSky]

I love how you guys are about the "whine and cry"

when I come with reasonable arguements and win-win situations.

 

You guys are the ones who have the "entitlement" complexity. I sub, I pay money for this game, same as you. I've bought A LOT of hypercrates to become rich in this game, which probably makes me more of a game supporter than a ton of you have been through the years you have been subbing.

 

So how, is it fair?

 

The short answer is; it's not.

And non of you "stop crying" guys, can come up with a valid reasonable arguement why it's not.

 

I gave you a full argument that you haven't even addressed, you just skipped over that post.

 

Accept it. You are whining and crying. You are being entitled. You chose not to stay subscribed to get the bonus chapter. No one made you do that, that was your choice. You didn't stick around and keep paying into this game like others did, so you don't get the reward for having done that. You didn't meet the requirements; therefore, you don't deserve the reward.

 

Choices have consequences. Be an adult and accept them.

[SuperJoule]

I gave you a full argument that you haven't even addressed, you just skipped over that post.

 

Accept it. You are whining and crying. You are being entitled. You chose not to stay subscribed to get the bonus chapter. No one made you do that, that was your choice. You didn't stick around and keep paying into this game like others did, so you don't get the reward for having done that. You didn't meet the requirements; therefore, you don't deserve the reward.

 

Choices have consequences. Be an adult and accept them.

 

 

It's not an arguement that I'm crying, it's an ad hominem.

And calling this "entitle" things is obviously a forum meme for douchebags, no offense lol.

 

Also, people come back because of the investment they make in this game, not because of sub perk, so you're arguement from a business sidepoint doesn't make sense, and furthemore you're being rude.

[beattlebilly]

Which means I don't get the flair, which makes it useless.

What flair? Can you give a link to the reward and it's requirements you are talking about?

Edited February 3, 2017 by beattlebilly

[AscendingSky]

It's not an arguement that I'm crying, it's an ad hominem.

And calling this "entitle" things is obviously a forum meme for douchebags, no offense lol.

 

Also, people come back because of the investment they make in this game, not because of sub perk, so you're arguement from a business sidepoint doesn't make sense, and furthemore you're being rude.

 

You're complaining I'm making an ad hominem attack... and then you proceed to make one right back by calling me a douchebag and rude. Pot, meet kettle.

 

Again, you are ignoring the ENTIRE explanation I gave for why your request is unreasonable, you are still not addressing that post. You are ignoring everyone's use of logic and economic reason so you can keep complaining how you don't have access to something that you didn't pay for, didn't meet the requirements for, and don't deserve.

 

Should I complain that I should be entitled to all the stuff you got out of those cartel packs back in the day, even though back then I didn't buy any? You'd be okay with that? You'd want me to just get it all now even though you're the one who put the money in before the packs in question became unavailable for purchase through embargo?

 

No, that would be entitled and unreasonable. You paid for those things back when they were available for purchase. I didn't. I do not automatically deserve those things just because I want them now, Veruca Salt. I didn't pay the money. I didn't meet the requirements.

 

You didn't pay the money, and you didn't meet the sub requirements for the bonus chapter. So you don't get it. That's how our economic system works. If you don't buy a product when it's available--a product that was made very clear was a limited time offer--you don't have a right to demand it after it is no longer available.

[SuperJoule]

You're complaining I'm making an ad hominem attack... and then you proceed to make one right back by calling me a douchebag and rude. Pot, meet kettle.

 

Didn't read the rest because after that you don't deserve more time.

 

There is a difference between making a case, and that case is attacking people for thinking a certain way. Which, in other words is being rude.

 

And making a neutral case, and then pointing out the rude response people make because of it.

If you can't see the difference, that's on you. Not me.

[AmadanNaBrona]

I sub, I pay money for this game, same as you.

 

Right there is exactly where you are wrong. I have subbed and payed continously for 5 years. You did NOT sub and pay like me.

 

I CHOSE to keep playing and keep subbing continously for 5 years, as a consequence I get the HK chapter. (And honestly it wasn"the that great, it was OK but not fantastic, you aren't missing much, really)

 

You CHOSE to quit playing

You CHOSE to quit subbing.

You CHOSE to be so out of touch with the game that you didn't get subbed back up in time to get the HK chapter.

Your consequence is that you don't get the HK chapter.

 

You you claim it's a bad business model. But it isn't. Every business has something like this. Membership perks, limited time offers. 1 Day sale. I they all work! Because no one wants to miss iut. Now you realize that if you ever let your subscription lapse,again, you might miss out on some thing again, so you'll be much more hesitant to un-sub in the future.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AmadanNaBrona

[ivanhedgehog]

Your entire point is feeling that you got cheated out of subscriber rewards because you didnt subscribe in time.

You feeling it is a bad buissness model because you didnt recieve the same rewards as the people who stayed subscribed during the entire promotion doesnt mean it's a bad buisness model. It means that you plain and simple missed the time window and didn't recieve the rewards.

 

Every single time they launch a subscriber reward timewindow, they heavily market it towards everyone, if you missed it, it's simply your own fault, not the company making the promotion.

 

What points do you feel that i've "missed"?

 

You have poor reading comprehension. He is stating that having reward windows for content is a porr business model. I agree. I have access to that content btw. That doesnt stop it from being bad business. Putting rewards for customers having x number of subscribed months is good. it continues to pay off the investment for the life of the game. efficient. Making a window like they did ensures that the investment for that content will never earn them another penny. inefficient. The special snowflakes of the game will pout if someone else gets their "precious" but they will get over it. Bioware has a smaller budget in money and manpower than they did at launch. they need to leverage that into making more with less. That is a better business model.

[AscendingSky]

Didn't read the rest because after that you don't deserve more time.

 

There is a difference between making a case, and that case is attacking people for thinking a certain way. Which, in other words is being rude.

 

And making a neutral case, and then pointing out the rude response people make because of it.

If you can't see the difference, that's on you. Not me.

 

And now for the third time, you have ignored all of the actual arguments and explanations I have given, in favor of slinging more insults. Since you refuse to address and logically refute any of the points which have been made against your entitled complaints (by me or anyone else) and instead keep stamping your virtual foot and shouting "It's not fair!" like a kid in a store being denied candy by their parents, any further attempts to engage you in rational discussion would be a waste of my time. Ta ta.

[Janglor]

So let me first start by saying:

I am not advocating for not recieving sub perks, I am going to argue, that punishing players that takes break from the game or start the game later, is not a well thought out business model.

 

So, let's start by the HK-Chapter, I couldn't care less about the HK chapter personally, but I do like collecting achievements, and this because of the HK-Chapter, I can't get Veteran/Master achievement for KOTFE / KOTET

Leaving it frankly useless to play on harder difficulties.

 

If you're a hater by nature, I will break it down for you:

ANY NEW PLAYER WHO WAS NOT A SUB FROM JANUARY 11 TO AUGUST 1 IS IN EFFECT RECIEVING A PUNISHMENT FOR NOT BEING A SUB WHILE THEY WERENT PLAYING.

 

How is punishing players a good business model to make new players?

Infact the amount of uncollectables in this game is just insane, I mean is the game doing so well you don't need the money?

 

If you make it *more* expensive than the sub cost, then you will make money, the sub perks will remain A LOT cheaper not to mention the 500 cc & all other perks you get from subbing.

 

I can't for the life of me, understand why the Kakkrann is not available to all, given that it's been SO LONG since it was a sub perk, and there's been several expansions since then, and being an iconic KOTOR vehicle.

 

It makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's disrespectful to new players, and returning players, and only benefits a business model that is based upon punishing everyone but strict loyal subscribers.

Which by the way, is retarded.

 

OP is an entitled special snowflake. Go drink lattes in your safe space. MadCuzBad.

[beattlebilly]

Gah, I just want to know what further reward is being denied because you couldn't do the Shroud of Memory chapter. Part of your reason for this thread is that you can't finish out achievements(even though SoM chapter isn't a requirement for getting Veteran and Master KotFE chapter achievements) and because of that you can't get some kind of flair. I've been looking and I can't find what you're talking about, and I want to know what i missed.

[AscendingSky]

You have poor reading comprehension. He is stating that having reward windows for content is a porr business model. I agree. I have access to that content btw. That doesnt stop it from being bad business. Putting rewards for customers having x number of subscribed months is good. it continues to pay off the investment for the life of the game. efficient. Making a window like they did ensures that the investment for that content will never earn them another penny. inefficient. The special snowflakes of the game will pout if someone else gets their "precious" but they will get over it. Bioware has a smaller budget in money and manpower than they did at launch. they need to leverage that into making more with less. That is a better business model.

 

By your argument, every limited time sale on Steam, every retail outlet's Black Friday special offer, every collector's edition of any game, every limited edition action figure, etc., are all bad business tactics/products and always hurt the companies using them.

 

Obviously, that's not true, because that kind of stuff is everywhere and is often very profitable for the companies involved. By contrast, if a company claimed some product was an exclusive limited time offer, and then started letting people who didn't purchase the product during the exclusive limited time offer get it later for no other reason than they want it now, then customers who bought the special product/service originally are no longer going to trust that company when they say something is exclusive or limited, because they were flat out lied to. That in turn means they will be far less likely to jump on that bandwagon next time. It also lowers the perceived value of the alleged exclusive limited time products/services, which means people will be less inclined to purchase it at all.

 

If subscribers know that they can sign in a year down the line and just get all the sub rewards they missed by resubbing again, then what possible reason would they have to stay subscribed during the 'dry periods' of no new content to get the rewards in the first place? That's WHY EAWare offered things like the Nico companion and the bonus chapter and all that... to prevent people from waiting until all the chapters were done and then binging them all with one month's sub. That's what people were doing and it was hurting them financially, so they started offering digital carrots to keep people subscribed.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky

[SuperJoule]

Gah, I just want to know what further reward is being denied because you couldn't do the Shroud of Memory chapter. Part of your reason for this thread is that you can't finish out achievements(even though SoM chapter isn't a requirement for getting Veteran and Master KotFE chapter achievements) and because of that you can't get some kind of flair. I've been looking and I can't find what you're talking about, and I want to know what i missed.

 

It's the flair and 100% completion ofcourse. KOTET & KOTFE goes hand in hand, so it wont be "the full set"

which frankly ought to be a bug.

[AscendingSky]

Gah, I just want to know what further reward is being denied because you couldn't do the Shroud of Memory chapter. Part of your reason for this thread is that you can't finish out achievements(even though SoM chapter isn't a requirement for getting Veteran and Master KotFE chapter achievements) and because of that you can't get some kind of flair. I've been looking and I can't find what you're talking about, and I want to know what i missed.

 

I've looked too, and I have no idea what he's talking about. I think he might be very confused and think the Eternal Command flair comes from some achievement rather than a cartel pack. That's the only theory I can come up with.

[ivanhedgehog]

By your argument, every limited time sale on Steam, every retail outlet's Black Friday special offer, every collector's edition of any game, every limited edition action figure, etc., are all bad business tactics/products and always hurt the companies using them.

 

Obviously, that's not true, because that kind of stuff is everywhere and is often very profitable for the companies involved. By contrast, if a company claimed some product was an exclusive limited time offer, and then started letting people who didn't purchase the product during the exclusive limited time offer get it later for no other reason than they want it now, then customers who bought the special product/service originally are no longer going to trust that company when they say something is exclusive or limited, because they were flat out lied to. That in turn means they will be far less likely to jump on that bandwagon next time. It also lowers the perceived value of the alleged exclusive limited time products/services, which means people will be less inclined to purchase it at all.

 

If subscribers know that they can sign in a year down the line and just get all the sub rewards they missed by resubbing again, then what possible reason would they have to stay subscribed during the 'dry periods' of no new content to get the rewards in the first place? That's WHY EAWare offered things like the Nico companion and the bonus chapter and all that... to prevent people from waiting until all the chapters were done and then binging them all with one month's sub. That's what people were doing and it was hurting them financially, so they started offering digital carrots to keep people subscribed.

 

When steam has a limited time sale, they never tell you it wont occur again. Having a sub reward for being subscribed for 6 specific months is inefficient, you will never have it pay off again. Telling new subs that if they subscribe for 18 straight months they will get that reward is efficient. It will continue to pay off for the life of the product. I am not saying go back and change the previous perk, just that future perks should be better thought out. If bioware wants to go back and change it, it is their property entirely. You would just have to decide how much it would bother you, and go from there.

[beattlebilly]

It's the flair and 100% completion ofcourse. KOTET & KOTFE goes hand in hand, so it wont be "the full set"

which frankly ought to be a bug.

 

What is the name of the flair? I've looked at the achievements, I've looked on Dulfy, and I'm not finding anything attached to FotFE and KotET, and KotET doesn't need to have KotFE completed to get 100%.

Edited February 3, 2017 by beattlebilly

[SuperJoule]

What is the name of the flair? I've looked at the achievements, I've looked on Dulfy, and I'm not finding anything attached to FotFE and KotET, and KotET doesn't need to have KotFE completed to get 100%.

 

Oh it's the level of the galactic command, haha my bad!

 

Either way, not getting 100% sucks :/ Don't really care about the flair as I have legendary, and that by the way is obtainable for everyone

[AscendingSky]

What is the name of the flair? I've looked at the achievements, I've looked on Dulfy, and I'm not finding anything attached to FotFE and KotET, and KotET doesn't need to have KotFE completed to get 100%.

 

Ha! In the end, all his whining and crying about not being able to get the flair was completely unjustified, because it was the Galactic Command level one he was complaining about allegedly not getting--even though he says the Legendary one is better, yet he was SO upset he couldn't get it when he thought it was from the achievement! Priceless. I needed a good laugh to start my day.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AscendingSky