The poor business model of sub perks.

[SuperJoule]

So let me first start by saying:

I am not advocating for not recieving sub perks, I am going to argue, that punishing players that takes break from the game or start the game later, is not a well thought out business model.

 

So, let's start by the HK-Chapter, I couldn't care less about the HK chapter personally, but I do like collecting achievements, and this because of the HK-Chapter, I can't get Veteran/Master achievement for KOTFE / KOTET

Leaving it frankly useless to play on harder difficulties.

 

If you're a hater by nature, I will break it down for you:

ANY NEW PLAYER WHO WAS NOT A SUB FROM JANUARY 11 TO AUGUST 1 IS IN EFFECT RECIEVING A PUNISHMENT FOR NOT BEING A SUB WHILE THEY WERENT PLAYING.

 

How is punishing players a good business model to make new players?

Infact the amount of uncollectables in this game is just insane, I mean is the game doing so well you don't need the money?

 

If you make it *more* expensive than the sub cost, then you will make money, the sub perks will remain A LOT cheaper not to mention the 500 cc & all other perks you get from subbing.

 

I can't for the life of me, understand why the Kakkrann is not available to all, given that it's been SO LONG since it was a sub perk, and there's been several expansions since then, and being an iconic KOTOR vehicle.

 

It makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's disrespectful to new players, and returning players, and only benefits a business model that is based upon punishing everyone but strict loyal subscribers.

Which by the way, is retarded.

[Khaleg]

I agree, locking out subscribers from content for the time being is retarded. Early access to those who were subscribed in the specific time frame is the absolute maximum that is acceptable. I started with this game in February so 8 didn't even have a chance to fulfill the requirements. This is absolutely stupid and not very well thought through. But this seems to be the thing of Bioware anyway, not planning accordingly and thinking things thoroughly through...

[Znozzy]

So let me first start by saying:

I am not advocating for not recieving sub perks, I am going to argue, that punishing players that takes break from the game or start the game later, is not a well thought out business model.

 

So, let's start by the HK-Chapter, I couldn't care less about the HK chapter personally, but I do like collecting achievements, and this because of the HK-Chapter, I can't get Veteran/Master achievement for KOTFE / KOTET

Leaving it frankly useless to play on harder difficulties.

 

If you're a hater by nature, I will break it down for you:

ANY NEW PLAYER WHO WAS NOT A SUB FROM JANUARY 11 TO AUGUST 1 IS IN EFFECT RECIEVING A PUNISHMENT FOR NOT BEING A SUB WHILE THEY WERENT PLAYING.

 

How is punishing players a good business model to make new players?

Infact the amount of uncollectables in this game is just insane, I mean is the game doing so well you don't need the money?

 

If you make it *more* expensive than the sub cost, then you will make money, the sub perks will remain A LOT cheaper not to mention the 500 cc & all other perks you get from subbing.

 

I can't for the life of me, understand why the Kakkrann is not available to all, given that it's been SO LONG since it was a sub perk, and there's been several expansions since then, and being an iconic KOTOR vehicle.

 

It makes absolutely zero sense to me. It's disrespectful to new players, and returning players, and only benefits a business model that is based upon punishing everyone but strict loyal subscribers.

Which by the way, is retarded.

 

Stop feeling so overly entitled to bonus content. The subscriber REWARDS should stay the way they are, sometimes you miss out on things, it happens, it sucks and you might feel its unfair, but thats how it is. If you arent subscribed during the required time, you wont recieve the subscriber reward.

[ScottishDrunk]

These were designed to reward people who continued to pay for the game through that period.

You didn't.

You're not being punished.

You simply didn't pay for it.

 

I did.

Would be a bit of a kick in the chuckies if they started giving stuff I paid for out free to those who didn't

 

Punishment... behave yourself

[JediRelentless]

Exclusive sub rewards are what this game needs more of. Edited February 3, 2017 by JediRelentless

[AllisonLightning]

It doesn't matter to me but they are subs that it does matter to and as they are yet to release anything of actual value rather than achievements that would negatively detract from your character's story- I play to play as whichever character I've taken up through the story, not HK- it was a different experience. I re-subbed far too late, didn't care for the bonus chapter but that Swoop bike- they're offering it as part of the deluxe 60 day pack on Origin- what annoys me is all my characters now get two copies of the said bike but few people seem to realize they cheated on a sub reward ( the lead up to 4.0 perks).

 

They are perks for being subbed at certain dates, superficial, shallow perks although I do like my instant companions at level one and the fact my Dark V character can stomp around Fleet in a Walker. You don't need them and the poor business model rampant in SWTOR has nothing to do with them but real issues like RNG gear and a lack of content and generic story jobs. Not the fact you missed out on a shiny.

[merovejec]

I do understand you viewpoint as I am a achievement fanatic.

 

From what I noticed in the game over the years is that with enough complaining Bioware will give the people what they want. I complained for a long time about the Party Jawa and the achievements connected to it. New players couldnt get it as is was a exclusive gift back in the early days. Now, they introduced a new one and achievements are done.

 

That is a good example of what you can do. Bioware needs such promotion as the game is doing bad and people are leaving the game, such actions are necessary to at least keep some people subbed.

[AmadanNaBrona]

Let think about this....

 

In 2008, Marion Hossa was a member of the Chicago Blackhawks but the Detroit Red Wings won the Stanley Cup.

 

In 2009, Marion Hossa wanted to win a Stanley Cup so he got himself traded to the Red Wings, but although the Red Wings made it to the Finals, the Pittsburgh Penguins won it.

 

In 2010, Marion Hossa and the Red Wings did not even make it to the Finals, and Marion's previous team the Chicago Blackhawks won the Cup.

 

In 2011, Marion Hossa gets traded back to Chicago.

 

 

By the argument of the original post, Marion Hossa should be given several Stanley Cup Rings, because although he was not part of any team when the team won, he was part of teams that had at some point been given rings. And we don't want anyone to be left out just because they weren't involved at the right time.

 

 

Yeah, umm, NO.

[SuperJoule]

It doesn't matter to me but they are subs that it does matter to and as they are yet to release anything of actual value rather than achievements that would negatively detract from your character's story- I play to play as whichever character I've taken up through the story, not HK- it was a different experience. I re-subbed far too late, didn't care for the bonus chapter but that Swoop bike- they're offering it as part of the deluxe 60 day pack on Origin- what annoys me is all my characters now get two copies of the said bike but few people seem to realize they cheated on a sub reward ( the lead up to 4.0 perks).

 

They are perks for being subbed at certain dates, superficial, shallow perks although I do like my instant companions at level one and the fact my Dark V character can stomp around Fleet in a Walker. You don't need them and the poor business model rampant in SWTOR has nothing to do with them but real issues like RNG gear and a lack of content and generic story jobs. Not the fact you missed out on a shiny.

 

Well, if they opened up to purchase subperks, instead of being a sub only, not extra cash grub they would have a lot more money for more content.

Which would mean that sub players get more content to use, maybe if they implimented a model like this we would have an extra OPS.

Who knows? Currently it's frankly embarrassing that they're THIS money grubbing, having one of the more expensive subscriber prices in the industry, and they punish new players who subscribe by systematically making content unavailable.

 

Let think about this....

 

In 2008, Marion Hossa was a member of the Chicago Blackhawks but the Detroit Red Wings won the Stanley Cup.

In 2009, Marion Hossa wanted to win a Stanley Cup so he got himself traded to the Red Wings, but although the Red Wings made it to the Finals, the Pittsburgh Penguins won it.

In 2010, Marion Hossa and the Red Wings did not even make it to the Finals, and Marion's previous team the Chicago Blackhawks won the Cup.

In 2011, Marion Hossa gets traded back to Chicago.

 

By the argument of the original post, Marion Hossa should be given several Stanley Cup Rings, because although he was not part of any team when the team won, he was part of teams that had at some point been given rings. And we don't want anyone to be left out just because they weren't involved at the right time.

Yeah, umm, NO.

 

I love how people compare multi-billion dollar industries, to video games who has maybe 400k subsribers. (give or take) Your arguement will be valid when swtor makes as american pro football teams make for football, not that it'll ever be valid, as it's saying that because cats hunt at night, humans hunt at night. Because one is true, so is the other. Which it's not, infact. It's a stupid point (the cat thing.)

Edited February 3, 2017 by SuperJoule

[americanaussie]

Stop feeling so overly entitled to bonus content. The subscriber REWARDS should stay the way they are, sometimes you miss out on things, it happens, it sucks and you might feel its unfair, but thats how it is. If you arent subscribed during the required time, you wont recieve the subscriber reward.

 

Mmm but maybe the achievements for kotfe and kotet shouldn't be based on a chapter only some have. Keep the limited audience for the chapter but give the poor guy vet and master achievements on kotfe and kotet.

[RswanBing]

IMO, real problem is the kind of reward they choose. A chapter doesn't seem to be a good choice, it's not a new companion (theres so many now that one more or less is not a big issue) or weapons or stuff like that, but actual content.

 

While I understand those who want it to remain a past reward, I also understand that keeping content out of reach of players is frustrating and doesn't really make sens, in a game who isn't producing a lot of actual content. Both points make sense to me.

 

I really think it was a bad decision to put story content as a reward, but it's done. If they do nothing, some people will be unhappy, if they do something, some people will be unhappy too.

[SuperJoule]

IMO, real problem is the kind of reward they choose. A chapter doesn't seem to be a good choice, it's not a new companion (theres so many now that one more or less is not a big issue) or weapons or stuff like that, but actual content.

 

While I understand those who want it to remain a past reward, I also understand that keeping content out of reach of players is frustrating and doesn't really make sens, in a game who isn't producing a lot of actual content. Both points make sense to me.

 

I really think it was a bad decision to put story content as a reward, but it's done. If they do nothing, some people will be unhappy, if they do something, some people will be unhappy too.

 

More people will be happy than unhappy, and the unhappy players are extremely unlikely to unsub, and other players will recieve more faith in BioWare/EA capability of being fair to the majority and new playerbase.

Edited February 3, 2017 by SuperJoule

[AmadanNaBrona]

I love how people compare multi-billion dollar industries, to video games who has maybe 400k subsribers. (give or take) Your arguement will be valid when swtor makes as american pro football teams make for football, not that it'll ever be valid, as it's saying that because cats hunt at night, humans hunt at night. Because one is true, so is the other. Which it's not, infact. It's a stupid point (the cat thing.)

 

 

Please refrain from ad hominem, being a douche wont help anybody.

 

Also, your arguement doesn't challenge my points at all, you say that "swtor makes as american pro football"

or that "cats hunt at night"

 

you blatantly say: "I want things to be different than they are because I'm not a long time sub and want someone else's exclusives"

 

Which is selfish.

Edited February 3, 2017 by AmadanNaBrona

[SuperJoule]

Today , 01:10 PM | #4

REPORT POST QUOTE

Please refrain from ad hominem, being a douche wont help anybody.

 

Also, your arguement doesn't challenge my points at all, you say that "swtor makes as american pro football"

or that "cats hunt at night"

 

you blatantly say: "I want things to be different than they are because I'm not a long time sub and want someone else's exclusives"

 

Which is selfish.

 

Please explain how I am making an arguement against a person?

 

You don't have a point lol, your "point" is that because this is what it is in american football, this is what it should be with SWTOR, I then presented a case where your arguement would be similiar.

 

I am blatantly saying, I want non-long time subs to be rewarded with the same oppertunities as long time subs, even if it means it costs me more then a sub reward, meaning I'd have to pay real money to get it.

 

I don't for the life of me, get how people can be so selfish that they are fundamentally against this?

Blows my mind.

 

Like lets take a look at it from a business perspective.

 

Alright, so the bonus chapter, it was 6 months worth of sub right?

Meaning, it would be fair it would cost approximately cost 78 USD to get it, turn that into Cartel coins, and then you have access to it.

Meaning, the people who paid for it after the submode, lost 3000cc + current sub to get it.

And other rewards could also be more expensive, do you not see that this is a better business model that can actually help improve your because it would tempt people to keep their sub longer, in order to not pay for the extra, instead people are cancelling because why should they keep subbing? They're more likely to switch to another MMO because of the punishing nature of the sub only at this month perk.

Edited February 3, 2017 by SuperJoule

[beattlebilly]

You don't need to do Shroud of Memory to get Veteran or Master achievement for KotFE. At least, it's not listed as one of the requirements when looking at it in the achievements list.

[AmadanNaBrona]

My point is you want something that you are not entitled to.

 

You want the conditions of the entitlement altered so that you can get what you want.

 

Whether you want a Stanley Cup Ring (which is hockey BTW, not football LOL) or whether you want access to a chapter in SWTOR, there are qualifications to get what you want. You don't meet the qualifications, you don't get what you want.

 

You have no right to come back a year later and request that reality be altered to suit your desires.

[SuperJoule]

You don't need to do Shroud of Memory to get Veteran or Master achievement for KotFE. At least, it's not listed as one of the requirements when looking at it in the achievements list.

 

http://i.imgur.com/ldslbek.jpg

[SuperJoule]

My point is you want something that you are not entitled to.

 

You want the conditions of the entitlement altered so that you can get what you want.

 

Whether you want a Stanley Cup Ring (which is hockey BTW, not football LOL) or whether you want access to a chapter in SWTOR, there are qualifications to get what you want. You don't meet the qualifications, you don't get what you want.

 

You have no right to come back a year later and request that reality be altered to suit your desires.

 

I'm sorry, where does your point come in where it's not punishable to new or returning players?

 

No valid point against my case made by you. Please try again later.

[Nightblazer]

I disagree with this. If you weren't a sub at the time that is on you. I've played other MMOs such as Wow where I missed achievements that were only available during a previous expansion but since I wasn't a sub at the time I couldn't get them.

 

However I don't feel they should go back and make them available for people who sub later on. I'm sorry but if you missed it that's on you not the game designer.

 

Would you really go to Blizzard and expect them to give you access to an achievement that is no longer available because you were a sub later on?

[beattlebilly]

http://i.imgur.com/ldslbek.jpg

 

Story =/= Veteran or Master. And I see you have 425 out of 425 of Veteran done even though you don't have Shroud of Memory done in Story.

 

There are achievements in this game I'm never going to get. Whether it's because I wasn't subbed at the time or because I choose not to do the content necessary, I don't feel like I'm being punished because someone else did what was necessary to get the reward. It would be a punishment if I met the requirements but the game didn't give them to me because I was wearing the wrong outfit

Edited February 3, 2017 by beattlebilly

[SuperJoule]

Story =/= Veteran or Master. And I see you have 425 out of 425 of Veteran done even though you don't have Shroud of Memory done in Story.

 

Which means I don't get the flair, which makes it useless.

[Sportiva]

OP, I have been a continuous subscriber since early-access, and I (plus thousands of others) are being barred from doing content that we have been doing for 2, 3, 4 and even 5 years due to the idiotic GC system. So ... sorry, but you won't find much sympathy here.

[SuperJoule]

OP, I have been a continuous subscriber since early-access, and I (plus thousands of others) are being barred from doing content that we have been doing for 2, 3, 4 and even 5 years due to the idiotic GC system. So ... sorry, but you won't find much sympathy here.

 

Wouldnt it be great if they just found some way to make more money so you could get more content.

I wish I knew a way they could do that

[beattlebilly]

Which means I don't get the flair, which makes it useless.

 

What flair? Can you give a link to the reward and it's requirements you are talking about?

[AmadanNaBrona]

I'm sorry, where does your point come in where it's not punishable to new or returning players?

 

No valid point against my case made by you. Please try again later.

 

I thought about buying you a dictionary but I wouldn'the know where to send it. So we'll have to settle for Google instead...

 

pun·ish·ment

ˈpəniSHmənt

noun

the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.

"crime demands just punishment"

synonyms: penalizing, punishing, disciplining

 

It is not a punishment to keep from someone a thing that they are not entitled to. Punishment would be getting your account suspended as retribution for violating the terms of service.

 

re·ward

rəˈwôrd/

noun

1. a thing given in recognition of one's service, effort, or achievement.

 

Access to the HK chapter is given in recognition of the effort of being subscribed at the right time.

 

 

New/returning subs are not being punished, continous subs are being rewarded.