Diplomacy is messed up

[ElZaguero]

There are two new problems with the Crew Skill Diplomacy.

 

1) Diplomacy missions have always influenced your alignment. There was always a clear symbol, either LS or DS, to show you which way it would influence your standing. Now all the crew skill missions have an identical symbol, depending on which side you have chosen to support in the new feature. With the other 5 Crew Skills, fine, no problem. But with Diplomacy, the new icon overwrites the old one, so now there is no way to see which direction the given mission will affect your personal alignment. If one's toon is at LS V, this comes as a nasty surprise when one's standing drops to LS IV because of a crew skill mission, when you had no way to know beforehand.

 

2) Diplomacy produces Medical SUPPLIES. It always has. But now the window says it produces Medical Equipment, which is utterly false. Medical Equipment can only be bought from vendor or obtained one-mission-at-a-time via Bioanalysis.

 

EDIT: Further testing has revealed that there is in fact one such mission in each group, but there's no way to tell which one. They all say Equipment, yet all but one in each group yield Supplies

Edited December 1, 2016 by ElZaguero

[Steelarion]

Missions provide both equipment and supplies....

 

Change your dark/light switch to gain whatever points you desire

 

Problem solved

[JWagner]

As said, there were always missions for supplies and equipment.

As far as the alignment, I was caught off guard too. I have to start using the tooltips, that show the LS and DS gains, to decide which ones I want to take to avoid the drop.

[ElZaguero]

Missions provide both equipment and supplies....

 

Change your dark/light switch to gain whatever points you desire

 

Problem solved

 

Uhh, you obviously didn't read the post, and you obviously don't do Diplomacy, since you're wrong on both counts.

 

Edit: Mostly wrong. Further testing has revealed that there is in fact one such mission in each group, but there's no way to tell which one. They all say Equipment, yet all but one in each group yield Supplies

Edited December 1, 2016 by ElZaguero

[ElZaguero]

As said, there were always missions for supplies and equipment.

 

Again, this is just not true.

Medical SUPPLIES have always come from Diplomacy.

Medical EQUIPMENT have always come from Bioanalysis.

 

But the tooltips suggestion is a good one, thank you.

[Dee_Deckard]

You can select whatever alignement you want, i can tell you that Diplomacy missions rewards several of my characters both Dark and Light side points with the same selected alignement (Light selected: Diplomacy still rewards both dark and light side points). BUG!

[ElZaguero]

You can select whatever alignement you want, i can tell you that Diplomacy missions rewards several of my characters both Dark and Light side points with the same selected alignement (Light selected: Diplomacy still rewards both dark and light side points). BUG!

 

Thank you for confirming, Dee

 

If you mouseover the LS/DS symbol and pause a sec, there will appear a popup telling you what effect it will have on your personal alignment, that helpful tip courtesy of one of the posters above.

 

But the fact remains that all Diplomacy missions now say they give Medical Equipment, when in fact they almost all yield Medical Supplies, as they always have. Further testing has revealed that there is apparently one mission out of the whole group offered to you which does yield Medical Equipment, but only one, and there's no way to tell which one.

 

The deep origin of this problem lies in the decision (long ago) to use such similar names.

Edited December 1, 2016 by ElZaguero

[LordTurin]

Thank you for confirming, Dee

 

If you mouseover the LS/DS symbol and pause a sec, there will appear a popup telling you what effect it will have on your personal alignment, that helpful tip courtesy of one of the posters above.

 

But the fact remains that all Diplomacy missions now say they give Medical Equipment, when in fact they almost all yield Medical Supplies, as they always have. Further testing has revealed that there is apparently one mission out of the whole group offered to you which does yield Medical Equipment, but only one, and there's no way to tell which one.

 

The deep origin of this problem lies in the decision (long ago) to use such similar names.

 

Make sure you submit a bug report in the bug report part of the forums; that's the most likely way for it to get fixed.

[Jeweledleah]

just piping in to confirm both issues here, especially the alignment issue. changing icons while keeping personal alignment gains the same was at best - an oversight, at worst - a horrible pointless decision. (to people who don't understand why personal alignment is important - acess to titles, mounts, certain gear items and decos, that literally become unusable if you lose your alignment)

 

mouseover helps to prevent some of the issues, but now its more of a drag. whereas before you could just quickly send companions on the missions and continue playing - now you have to spend extra time making sure you are not accidentally using a wrong mission.

 

and apparently - working as intended http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9131918#edit9131918

Edited December 1, 2016 by Jeweledleah

[ElZaguero]

just piping in to confirm both issues here, especially the alignment issue. changing icons while keeping personal alignment gains the same was at best - an oversight, at worst - a horrible pointless decision. (to people who don't understand why personal alignment is important - acess to titles, mounts, certain gear items and decos, that literally become unusable if you lose your alignment)

 

mouseover helps to prevent some of the issues, but now its more of a drag. whereas before you could just quickly send companions on the missions and continue playing - now you have to spend extra time making sure you are not accidentally using a wrong mission.

 

and apparently - working as intended http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9131918#edit9131918

 

Working as intended...words just fail me. Wow.

[Sargrith]

You can select whatever alignement you want, i can tell you that Diplomacy missions rewards several of my characters both Dark and Light side points with the same selected alignement (Light selected: Diplomacy still rewards both dark and light side points). BUG!

 

Same here.

[Andryah]

2) Diplomacy produces Medical SUPPLIES. It always has. But now the window says it produces Medical Equipment, which is utterly false. Medical Equipment can only be bought from vendor or obtained one-mission-at-a-time via Bioanalysis.

 

EDIT: Further testing has revealed that there is in fact one such mission in each group, but there's no way to tell which one. They all say Equipment, yet all but one in each group yield Supplies

 

Medical equipment is the vendor supplied "white" grade material needed for Biochem. This simply gives you an opportunity to gain them from missions (which is less expensive, but takes time) rather then buying them from the trade skills merchants.

 

It should show if a mission produces these, unless it is a random result from missions in general. So maybe bug report that and see.

[AscendingSky]

Medical equipment is the vendor supplied "white" grade material needed for Biochem. This simply gives you an opportunity to gain them from missions (which is less expensive, but takes time) rather then buying them from the trade skills merchants.

 

It should show if a mission produces these, unless it is a random result from missions in general. So maybe bug report that and see.

 

Your ignorance is showing. Diplomacy missions have never in the past awarded Medical EQUIPMENT. They awarded Medical SUPPLIES. The description on the Diplomacy missions is flat out wrong. I have Diplomacy on a toon, I can confirm those missions still give out Medical SUPPLIES only. I have tried them all and not obtained any Medical EQUIPMENT. If someone's getting Medical EQUIPMENT from a Diplomacy mission instead of a Bioanalysis one, that's both a bug and a problem with the Crew Skill mission display.

Edited December 1, 2016 by AscendingSky

[Alexandrozingsw]

the icons: bad interface design, they could just add a command alignment LS/DS icon to the window title and left the mission icons like they were to show personal gain.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9131918#edit9131918

 

the mission rewards: I can confirm that I've got both equipement and supplies running diplo

Edited December 1, 2016 by Alexandrozingsw
typo

[Andryah]

Your ignorance is showing. Diplomacy missions have never in the past awarded Medical EQUIPMENT. They awarded Medical SUPPLIES. The description on the Diplomacy missions is flat out wrong. I have Diplomacy on a toon, I can confirm those missions still give out Medical SUPPLIES only. I have tried them all and not obtained any Medical EQUIPMENT. If someone's getting Medical EQUIPMENT from a Diplomacy mission instead of a Bioanalysis one, that's both a bug and a problem with the Crew Skill mission display.

 

Well if you are going to resort to pejoratives...... your ignorance is showing as well. Things DO change in major expacs so stop assuming based on pre-4.0 for a minute.

 

I can confirm what the OP has stated here, as I did get some as well. I recall getting said drop one time yesterday as I was skilling up. I don't see it offered on the menu of missions, so perhaps it's an intended bonus in the mission rewards or something. Could also be a bug. I'm going to keep a watch on each missions returns in Diplomacy and see if I catch it again, and can bug report it. If it's working as intended, the answer back on the bug report will say so and we can move on. If it's a bug, it's not harming anything, but should still be fixed.

 

Here is what I think.. but I need to do more testing.... it could be a wrong entry in the loot table for the missions. I need to check some more and see if something that should be in the loot table is simply not dropping, and these are instead. OP thinks it is in fact a mission and it's just mislabeled.. I can neither confirm nor deny that yet.

 

And yes.. you can run specifically for them in Bioanalysis missions... duh. And no, I have not touched Bioanalysis since patch.. so I did not get them from there.

 

Barring this one unknown that happened, Diplomacy is playable with no real issue. This particular thing certainly is not hindering Diplomacy progress in any measurable way. And even if it is a mislabeled or broken mission, the return from said mission is greater then the cost of buying them directly from the vendor.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Andryah

[teclado]

So that explains it. I now have 8 dark side points on my previously 100% light Sage that I got after running a Diplomacy mission. I couldn't figure out what happened. They all showed as light. Thanks for posting this.

[ElZaguero]

Well if you are going to resort to pejoratives...... your ignorance is showing as well. Things DO change in major expacs so stop assuming based on pre-4.0 for a minute.

 

I can confirm what the OP has stated here, as I did get some as well. I recall getting said drop one time yesterday as I was skilling up. I don't see it offered on the menu of missions, so perhaps it's an intended bonus in the mission rewards or something. Could also be a bug. I'm going to keep a watch on each missions returns in Diplomacy and see if I catch it again, and can bug report it. If it's working as intended, the answer back on the bug report will say so and we can move on. If it's a bug, it's not harming anything, but should still be fixed.

 

Here is what I think.. but I need to do more testing.... it could be a wrong entry in the loot table for the missions. I need to check some more and see if something that should be in the loot table is simply not dropping, and these are instead. OP thinks it is in fact a mission and it's just mislabeled.. I can neither confirm nor deny that yet.

 

And yes.. you can run specifically for them in Bioanalysis missions... duh. And no, I have not touched Bioanalysis since patch.. so I did not get them from there.

 

Barring this one unknown that happened, Diplomacy is playable with no real issue. This particular thing certainly is not hindering Diplomacy progress in any measurable way. And even if it is a mislabeled or broken mission, the return from said mission is greater then the cost of buying them directly from the vendor.

 

I'm not calling anyone names. AscendingSky is correct in describing the problem, even if he is perhaps a bit less than impeccably courteous

 

So, Andryah, let's take this from the top. Before patch, Diplomacy missions said Medical Supplies and delivered Medical Supplies, all of them, all the time. Now Diplomacy missions say Medical Equipment and deliver Medical Supplies most of the time, except once every 7 or 8 missions when they deliver Medical Equipment only. Not in addition to Supplies, so it's not a bonus.

 

It appears to be working much like the manner in which most Salvage missions deliver either Salvaged Metal or Salvaged Compound except in each slate of missions there is one which instead delivers the Crafting Material of the same level.

[Andryah]

So, Andryah, let's take this from the top. Before patch, Diplomacy missions said Medical Supplies and delivered Medical Supplies, all of them, all the time. Now Diplomacy missions say Medical Equipment and deliver Medical Supplies most of the time, except once every 7 or 8 missions when they deliver Medical Equipment only. Not in addition to Supplies, so it's not a bonus.

 

I'm NOT disagreeing that Medical Equipment is dropping on occasion. In fact, I have personally confirmed it. Nor am I disagreeing that the label on the missions is incorrect.. but that affects no outcomes, just poses some potential confusion for players.

 

What I have not done yet is more mission testing to try to isolate exactly how it is happening. You know... something tangible that you can put in a bug report to actually give the studio something actionable to chase and fix. Once I do, I will bug report it both in game and up in the bug report forum. A better path then just coming to the forum and griping about it.

 

Now.. as to it's impact in running Diplomacy missions, it's really minor from my experience so far. I have three characters running Diplomacy missions right now and I have only seen the Medical Equipment drop once in about 60 mission runs. So I disagree with your assessment as to it's severity of impact on progress in gathering mission materials. Now, it could be there is one specific mission in the list that is doing this and I'm not hitting it. I'm leveling a bunch of crew skills on a bunch of characters at the moment and I do split my available 6 companions across multiple crew skills... so it's possible I simply never get to a mission that is doing this (given it does it all the time). OR, it could be a bad entry in the loot table... and something else is NOT dropping. Personally I need to gather more data to help localize it a bit.

 

Or.. I guess I could just complain in the forum and fire off a vague nonspecific complaint in a bug report and hope the poor bastard on the other end can pierce the vagueness. Having been the business owner for a number of large corporate web properties over the years, from my experience, actual data to localize a problem is helpful to enabling timely fixes. Vague griping..... totally ineffective.

 

Anyway.. you guys gripe on if you like. Me, I'll be trying to localize the symptoms/cause so I can write an articulate and accurate bug report.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Andryah

[lobstah_rofls]

I forget if it's always been this way or if it's a change, but you can also get medical equipment from Bioanalysis and the mission for it is clearly labeled as such and it reliably returns it.

[lobstah_rofls]

Complicating the issue, the level 10 mission light side and dark side assignments are wrong in terms of the mission lore description. They are almost all reversed.

 

Level 10 mission "A Wanderer's Gifts" should be the light side rich yield mission while "Criminal Interest" (helping the Hutts gain access to systems resisting their presence) should be the dark side rich yield mission.

 

"Tough Love" should be the dark side bountiful yield mission (exiling/disappearing a noble's embarrassing smuggler brother) while "Friends in Low Places" (negotiating release of an arrested alliance smuggler) should be the light side bountiful yield mission.

 

Both abundant yield missions are light side in terms of mission description, but "Strained Negotiation" (negotiating a peaceful compromise with Mandalorian Mercenaries) yields dark side points.

 

Moderate yield mission "Justify the Means" should be the dark side mission because you're hiding criminal activity for the alliance, while "Uncivil War" should be the light side mission because you are mediating to prevent a coup.

[AscendingSky]

Well if you are going to resort to pejoratives...... your ignorance is showing as well. Things DO change in major expacs so stop assuming based on pre-4.0 for a minute.

 

If they told us in patch notes that Diplomacy would now award Medical EQUIPMENT instead of Medical SUPPLIES, then you would be correct. But you're not. There's NOTHING in the patch notes about it. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. So again, your ignorance is showing, as is your obsessive white knighting that I have noted in a dozen other threads. It's either a bug, or it's a stealth change that EAWare didn't see fit to notify us of--and either way the mission descriptions are flat out WRONG, since most/all still award Medical SUPPLIES instead of Medical EQUIPMENT as they claim.

 

You can admit the company you shill for makes mistakes on occasion, really, you can, I swear! The world won't end if you do!

[Zasszz]

Working as intended. Yeah, it sucks, I know.

 

Dev post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9131918&postcount=4

[ElZaguero]

Or.. I guess I could just complain in the forum and fire off a vague nonspecific complaint in a bug report and hope the poor bastard on the other end can pierce the vagueness. Having been the business owner for a number of large corporate web properties over the years, from my experience, actual data to localize a problem is helpful to enabling timely fixes. Vague griping..... totally ineffective.

 

Anyway.. you guys gripe on if you like. Me, I'll be trying to localize the symptoms/cause so I can write an articulate and accurate bug report.

 

You're just determined to be unpleasant, aren't you?

 

I have, twice now, described the problem in clear and unequivocal terms. There was nothing vague about either my OP or my second attempt to describe the phenomenon to you.